Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(10-20-2021, 06:17 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]A.

1.  Meyer who is a 8 figure paid head coach of a professional football team says Wingard is good.

2.  PFF also backups Wingard is good.

vs

B.

1. The Duval Pride know it all couch GM's who have 0 coaching experience or knowledge.

Hmmm  It's a hard choice but I think I will stick with A.

What is amazing that many of you who are crucifying Meyer already loved Dave Caldwell til his departure.  Just bizarre!

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(10-20-2021, 12:29 PM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ]We all knew Myles Jack played better without the green dot than with a year ago, yet Meyer and co. apparently just figured it out a week or so ago.  Maybe the coaches aren't particularly smart/knowledgeable after all.

Jack has played poor this year with and without the dot.  He is under performing, period!

Meyer thought it was a good idea to hang out in Columbus after the Cincy game to party. He stole reps from TLaw for Minshew. I mean do I really need to list all the reasons to not trust Meyers decision making so far?
The fact he's an 8 figure paid dude means diddly other than Khan loves wasting money.

PFF is not the end all be all dude. But I wonder how much they're paying you at this point.

(10-20-2021, 09:42 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2021, 06:17 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]A.

1.  Meyer who is a 8 figure paid head coach of a professional football team says Wingard is good.

2.  PFF also backups Wingard is good.

vs

B.

1. The Duval Pride know it all couch GM's who have 0 coaching experience or knowledge.

Hmmm  It's a hard choice but I think I will stick with A.

What is amazing that many of you who are crucifying Meyer already loved Dave Caldwell til his departure.  Just bizarre!

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Jack has played poor this year with and without the dot.  He is under performing, period!

Meyer thought it was a good idea to hang out in Columbus after the Cincy game to party. He stole reps from TLaw for Minshew. I mean do I really need to list all the reasons to not trust Meyers decision making so far?
The fact he's an 8 figure paid dude means diddly other than Khan loves wasting money.

PFF is not the end all be all dude. But I wonder how much they're paying you at this point.

So you are implying that a coach who has won a few national championship does not know football? Sure he has made poor personal decisions but football is something else. As for your dumb pff comment, it's ridiculous.

(10-20-2021, 10:07 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2021, 09:42 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]Meyer thought it was a good idea to hang out in Columbus after the Cincy game to party. He stole reps from TLaw for Minshew. I mean do I really need to list all the reasons to not trust Meyers decision making so far?
The fact he's an 8 figure paid dude means diddly other than Khan loves wasting money.

PFF is not the end all be all dude. But I wonder how much they're paying you at this point.

So you are implying that a coach who has won a few national championship does not know football? Sure he has made poor personal decisions but football is something else. As for your dumb pff comment, it's ridiculous.

Saban has won tons of college championships. Garbage NFL coach.
College coaches are recruiters. He got the best young athletes and ran a bunch of gimmicky QB run system crap in bad conferences. SEC wasn't great when Meyer was there and Big10 was a fairly weak conference too.

He can't build an NFL roster worth diddly, so far. He appears in over his head with all sorts of decisions, and yeah I correlate bad personal decisions with bad personnel decisions and bad football decisions.

But whatever... I'm done talking to a brick wall. Enjoy your pff and the chophouse

Head coaches are figure heads for the most part. At the end of the day, the coach will get the credit and the blame for his players preforming and coaching staff. The head coach is often an organizer or a boss. A ceo. My point is it's too soon to judge and time will tell.

(10-20-2021, 09:05 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2021, 08:15 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]That doesn't fit the narrative, though.

Seriously, though, I don't understand how this board can spew this much venom at Wingard because the golden boy Cisco isn't getting PT, but we hear crickets about Jawann Taylor's superior play keeping little on the bench. It's dumbfounding.

I don't think this is fully about football. It's also about that Wingard is a white guy with long hair playing in the secondary.

uh....ok? What, he should be on the stage doing a bad cover of freebird? (Like how I threw poor coverage skills in there, naysayers?)

(10-20-2021, 04:49 PM)icey14 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2021, 01:44 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]How do you know Wingard is not outplaying Cisco in practice?  How could you possibly know that?

Cisco no way would need to play 30 yards down the field just so he doesn't get beat.  Cisco is also a Ball Hawk, had something like 15 picks in 24 games.  both Winguard and Jenkins are Box Safeties. Cisco isn't.  Cisco and Jenkins would be great together.

Winguard is a decent backup but not a long term starter in my opinion.

Now I don't want to construe any favor toward one player or the other here. Personally I think it's foolish that we are not getting our youth on the field to develop. But everything you said is complete speculation.

We don't know that Cisco would or wouldn't need to play 30 yds downfield, or if he'd do that if coached to do so. Ball hawking at Syracuse is gonna be very different from facing NFL offenses. Again, he could do very well just as easily as he could become a liability in pass coverage. We don't know, because we just haven't had an opportunity to see him.

All we got at this point is speculation.

(10-21-2021, 08:24 AM)Mikey Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2021, 09:05 AM)CanDoBetter Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think this is fully about football. It's also about that Wingard is a white guy with long hair playing in the secondary.

uh....ok? What, he should be on the stage doing a bad cover of freebird? (Like how I through poor coverage skills in there, naysayers?)

We were doing a good job of ignoring the post that was unworthy of a response. "were"


My next post will illustrate why it's spot infuriating to watch Wingard play FS, standby a sec...

IN THE IMAGE ABOVE, WE SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING A SPLIT SECOND AFTER THE BALL IS SNAPPED. (THESE RECEIVERS ARE ALL RUNNING HITCH/COMEBACK ROUTES TO THE STICKS, BTW)




THIS IS WHAT I SEE HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN EVERY WEEK THAT PISSES ME OFF. HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING THIS WAY BUT PREVENT THE HOME-RUN BALL (MAYBE)   --  OF COURSE - AS I'VE MENTIONED REPEATEDLY - THIS MAY BE PARTIALLY OR COMPLETELY SCHEME - BUT THEY MUST EITHER GET A FS ON THE FIELD THAT DOESN'T NEED THAT MUCH CUSHION OR THEY MUST ADJUST THEIR SCHEME TO ALLOW THE FS TO AFFECT/CONTEST CONVERSIONS

IN ALL MY SIFTING THROUGH ALL22 DEFENSIVE SERIES, I'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN CONSISTENTLY AND REPEATEDLY

(10-21-2021, 09:10 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]


IN THE IMAGE ABOVE, WE SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING A SPLIT SECOND AFTER THE BALL IS SNAPPED. (THESE RECEIVERS ARE ALL RUNNING HITCH/COMEBACK ROUTES TO THE STICKS, BTW)




THIS IS WHAT I SEE HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN EVERY WEEK THAT PISSES ME OFF. HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING THIS WAY BUT PREVENT THE HOME-RUN BALL (MAYBE)   --  OF COURSE - AS I'VE MENTIONED REPEATEDLY - THIS MAY BE PARTIALLY OR COMPLETELY SCHEME - BUT THEY MUST EITHER GET A FS ON THE FIELD THAT DOESN'T NEED THAT MUCH CUSHION OR THEY MUST ADJUST THEIR SCHEME TO ALLOW THE FS TO AFFECT/CONTEST CONVERSIONS

IN ALL MY SIFTING THROUGH ALL22 DEFENSIVE SERIES, I'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN CONSISTENTLY AND REPEATEDLY

Yep.  This is exactly what we are talking about.  Looks like a 3rd and 12.  Wingard playing 22 yards off the line of scrimmage I10 yards beyond the 1st down marker) and he still backpedals another 10 yards, essentially taking him 20 yards behind the 1st down marker and 35 yards from the point of Tua's throw.  Thanks for providing the illustrations that show we are essentially playing defense with 10 players (unless there is a rare deep pass).  As active as the Ravens safeties were in the passing and running game, it's hard to believe our DC (who came from the Ravens) would ever concoct such a hideous formation.

(10-21-2021, 09:21 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2021, 09:10 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]


IN THE IMAGE ABOVE, WE SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING A SPLIT SECOND AFTER THE BALL IS SNAPPED. (THESE RECEIVERS ARE ALL RUNNING HITCH/COMEBACK ROUTES TO THE STICKS, BTW)




THIS IS WHAT I SEE HAPPEN OVER AND OVER AGAIN EVERY WEEK THAT PISSES ME OFF. HE CAN'T DO ANYTHING THIS WAY BUT PREVENT THE HOME-RUN BALL (MAYBE)   --  OF COURSE - AS I'VE MENTIONED REPEATEDLY - THIS MAY BE PARTIALLY OR COMPLETELY SCHEME - BUT THEY MUST EITHER GET A FS ON THE FIELD THAT DOESN'T NEED THAT MUCH CUSHION OR THEY MUST ADJUST THEIR SCHEME TO ALLOW THE FS TO AFFECT/CONTEST CONVERSIONS

IN ALL MY SIFTING THROUGH ALL22 DEFENSIVE SERIES, I'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN CONSISTENTLY AND REPEATEDLY

Yep.  This is exactly what we are talking about.  Looks like a 3rd and 12.  Wingard playing 22 yards off the line of scrimmage I10 yards beyond the 1st down marker) and he still backpedals another 10 yards, essentially taking him 20 yards behind the 1st down marker and 35 yards from the point of Tua's throw.  Thanks for providing the illustrations that show we are essentially playing defense with 10 players (unless there is a rare deep pass).  As active as the Ravens safeties were in the passing and running game, it's hard to believe our DC (who came from the Ravens) would ever concoct such a hideous formation.

Since Wingard has been doing this for several games now, it's not him, it's Cullen.  So anyone who wants to complain about where Wingard is lined up should lay off Wingard on that issue.

(10-21-2021, 09:44 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2021, 09:21 AM)HURRICANE!!! Wrote: [ -> ]Yep.  This is exactly what we are talking about.  Looks like a 3rd and 12.  Wingard playing 22 yards off the line of scrimmage I10 yards beyond the 1st down marker) and he still backpedals another 10 yards, essentially taking him 20 yards behind the 1st down marker and 35 yards from the point of Tua's throw.  Thanks for providing the illustrations that show we are essentially playing defense with 10 players (unless there is a rare deep pass).  As active as the Ravens safeties were in the passing and running game, it's hard to believe our DC (who came from the Ravens) would ever concoct such a hideous formation.

Since Wingard has been doing this for several games now, it's not him, it's Cullen.  So anyone who wants to complain about where Wingard is lined up should lay off Wingard on that issue.

This is an assumption. ^

Whether it's Cullen, Wingard or a combo of the two (probably the best guess) something has gotta give. It's weak as hell.

(10-21-2021, 09:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2021, 09:44 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Since Wingard has been doing this for several games now, it's not him, it's Cullen.  So anyone who wants to complain about where Wingard is lined up should lay off Wingard on that issue.

This is an assumption. ^

Whether it's Cullen, Wingard or a combo of the two (probably the best guess) something has gotta give. It's weak as hell.

I'm convinced it's Cullen and Meyer since there is no way a safety could improvise and make himself essentially useless to the defense on such plays.  This almost makes me laugh (or cry) when I think of players like HOF Safeties like Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu wreaking havoc on the blitz on some plays while then jumping 10 yard routes and intercepting the ball on other plays.

(10-21-2021, 09:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2021, 09:44 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Since Wingard has been doing this for several games now, it's not him, it's Cullen.  So anyone who wants to complain about where Wingard is lined up should lay off Wingard on that issue.

This is an assumption. ^

Whether it's Cullen, Wingard or a combo of the two (probably the best guess) something has gotta give. It's weak as hell.

Most of this thread has been complaining about Wingard, including where he lines up.  But if he keeps lining up in the same spot, it's not the player, it's the way the defense is designed.    Otherwise, Cullen would tell him to line up in a different spot.

Maybe it's designed in that manner to compensate for his perceived deficiencies...

All I know is that Cisco, being the rookie that he is, would hopefully be on-boarded quicker than what is happening right now - except if it's due to an easing of reps due to his previous injury. Otherwise, the best way to learn is through experience on the field.

I'm willing to have him make some rookie mistakes if it also means that his athleticism and ball-hawking prowess affords us some much needed turnovers on defense...

(10-21-2021, 10:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2021, 09:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]This is an assumption. ^

Whether it's Cullen, Wingard or a combo of the two (probably the best guess) something has gotta give. It's weak as hell.

Most of this thread has been complaining about Wingard, including where he lines up.  But if he keeps lining up in the same spot, it's not the player, it's the way the defense is designed.    Otherwise, Cullen would tell him to line up in a different spot.

Assuming your assumption is correct, then we can also assume that if Cullen had a faster player who took better angles at FS then he wouldn't have to "line him up" (read: backpedal him out of the play) into no mans land all the time.

(10-21-2021, 10:41 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2021, 10:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Most of this thread has been complaining about Wingard, including where he lines up.  But if he keeps lining up in the same spot, it's not the player, it's the way the defense is designed.    Otherwise, Cullen would tell him to line up in a different spot.

Assuming your assumption is correct, then we can also assume that if Cullen had a faster player who took better angles at FS then he wouldn't have to "line him up" (read: backpedal him out of the play) into no mans land all the time.

This... They make Wingard line up so deep so he doesn't get beat terribly. Cullen can't play his scheme because the HC won't put in the better player. Ego is a big problem with HCs.

They are trying to disguise inefficiencies of bad players. Bad players leads to poor scheming.
Can't really blitz much because we can't cover. Can't rush only 4 cuz we can't get home. Offensive game plan has been questionable at various times in every game, especially early.

I keep saying y biggest issue isn't with Wingard, probably a decent backup and ST guy.
My biggest issue is with the coaches who won't play the better player.

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(10-21-2021, 10:19 AM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe it's designed in that manner to compensate for his perceived deficiencies...

All I know is that Cisco, being the rookie that he is, would hopefully be on-boarded quicker than what is happening right now - except if it's due to an easing of reps due to his previous injury. Otherwise, the best way to learn is through experience on the field.

I'm willing to have him make some rookie mistakes if it also means that his athleticism and ball-hawking prowess affords us some much needed turnovers on defense...

He didnt get a lot of off season snaps because of prior injury but he's been practicing and he played in week 1. Played well in limited action.
Then coaches were just like "ah save him for next year"

It's like they are purposely stashing guys (Cisco, Little) to improve draft status for year 2.
Must be nice to be so secure in your job you can purposely be bad at it.
The smartest guys in the room 

(10-21-2021, 10:58 AM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2021, 10:41 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Assuming your assumption is correct, then we can also assume that if Cullen had a faster player who took better angles at FS then he wouldn't have to "line him up" (read: backpedal him out of the play) into no mans land all the time.

This... They make Wingard line up so deep so he doesn't get beat terribly. Cullen can't play his scheme because the HC won't put in the better player. Ego is a big problem with HCs.

They are trying to disguise inefficiencies of bad players. Bad players leads to poor scheming.
Can't really blitz much because we can't cover. Can't rush only 4 cuz we can't get home. Offensive game plan has been questionable at various times in every game, especially early.

I keep saying y biggest issue isn't with Wingard, probably a decent backup and ST guy.
My biggest issue is with the coaches who won't play the better player.

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(10-21-2021, 10:19 AM)enigma Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe it's designed in that manner to compensate for his perceived deficiencies...

All I know is that Cisco, being the rookie that he is, would hopefully be on-boarded quicker than what is happening right now - except if it's due to an easing of reps due to his previous injury. Otherwise, the best way to learn is through experience on the field.

I'm willing to have him make some rookie mistakes if it also means that his athleticism and ball-hawking prowess affords us some much needed turnovers on defense...

He didnt get a lot of off season snaps because of prior injury but he's been practicing and he played in week 1. Played well in limited action.
Then coaches were just like "ah save him for next year"

It's like they are purposely stashing guys (Cisco, Little) to improve draft status for year 2.
Must be nice to be so secure in your job you can purposely be bad at it.
The smartest guys in the room 

Bolded ^
That thought has crossed my mind a few times and I really hope that's not what we're seeing.

We are in an era of the NFL game wherein new regimes can turn things around rapidly when given the amount off draft capital and FA spending these clowns were given.  
The slow play you described would not be the wise path in this instance, and it is absolutely, without doubt, a giant middle finger to the hardcore fan who is sick of seeing an inferior product.

(10-21-2021, 10:03 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2021, 09:55 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]This is an assumption. ^

Whether it's Cullen, Wingard or a combo of the two (probably the best guess) something has gotta give. It's weak as hell.

Most of this thread has been complaining about Wingard, including where he lines up.  But if he keeps lining up in the same spot, it's not the player, it's the way the defense is designed.    Otherwise, Cullen would tell him to line up in a different spot.

or take his [BLEEP] off the field.
That no coaches are calling out his play or habits tells me it's in line with their plan.

"One, he's earned that opportunity and two, like I said, he's the quarterback of the defense. And right now, there's just a lot of comfort with what he's doing. He's playing at a high level, and you look at his production this year. He's one of the most productive players we've had." - Chris Ash

https://www.si.com/nfl/jaguars/news/jenk...s-safeties

Of course gossip boy Dillard thinks it's because WIngard is white with long hair.

"But dalton, didn’t you see. Chris Ash called him the quarterback. (I think it’s because he’s white, has long blonde hair and is just confused but iono)"

https://twitter.com/E_Dilla/status/1451243056880103431

(10-20-2021, 10:12 PM)Kane Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-20-2021, 10:07 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]So you are implying that a coach who has won a few national championship does not know football? Sure he has made poor personal decisions but football is something else. As for your dumb pff comment, it's ridiculous.

Saban has won tons of college championships. Garbage NFL coach.
College coaches are recruiters. He got the best young athletes and ran a bunch of gimmicky QB run system crap in bad conferences. SEC wasn't great when Meyer was there and Big10 was a fairly weak conference too.

He can't build an NFL roster worth diddly, so far. He appears in over his head with all sorts of decisions, and yeah I correlate bad personal decisions with bad personnel decisions and bad football decisions.

But whatever... I'm done talking to a brick wall. Enjoy your pff and the chophouse

Amazing how you can be so head strong to dismiss a Coach after 6 games.  If he turns this around, do us all a favor and just shut up.