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Quote:This is what I was responding to by the way...

No I get that. I responded to your comments about a guy partying around the world on the government dime. All I've been trying to say is paying service members isn't the same as paying for other government services. That and criticizing people for their service in any manner is pretty tactless unless actually given a reason. In this case with don't see one. Idk maybe it's different around the world but even progressives like myself dont take kindly to people criticizing or joking about current or former service members. Hence my dialogue with you.

I will show respect to people who show respect to others. In this case I didn't see any to several posters myself included.


His only comment on serving was about picking up women who must hate the men of their country, nothing really to respect? Will always respect those who do it for altruistic reasons or were forced into serving by circumstances though.

Quote:Then leave. Go live in one of those African countries that has no government. See how you like it. Hire the workers there and then tell me if public education is such a terrible thing. Hire a bunch of African women that you provide no benefits to and see how well they work for you. But in sure you'd just run a sweat shop. Low quality junk.

The self righteous egotism of government haters is something constitutionalists are getting sick of.

Cry me a river about all the taxes you pay. Ignoring the fact that you live in such a great country because of that very same government that has been taxing and spending in this manner for almost 100 years.

You people are so pathetic, instead of trying to fix the system and reform the waste, you want to destroy it from the inside because of a delusion you bought that isn't even realistic.

Your idea of cutting all funding to the federal government would destroy the country. You don't have to be a genius to figure that out.

Are you drinking again? No one advocates eliminating the federal government. Every argument you make from that idea starts from a false premise. If you were truly a Constitutionalist or Libertarian you would resent the federal government granting itself a place at your negotiating table. That doesn't appear to be the case with your argument for a stronger, more intrusive government that regulates your rights to employ or to be employed.

Quote:I get where you are coming from in regards to taxation, leave etc... In fact I mostly agree with you. However, Americans (and those from other nations for that matter) that serve in the military earn their wages. They work and are compensated. If some are lazy people partying around the globe then so be it but I cannot speak to that. I have to think that the vast majority are earning their wages regardless of what their roll is. Criticizing people for serving is, at best, tasteless. 

Quote:They are really not the same thing. Service members are being paid for services rendered. Bloat is a real problem but paying service members isn't bloat. In fact most are probably under paid for what they do. You are really way off base on this one.

 

You and I don't agree on much regarding politics, but we very much agree on this.

Quote:Absolutely my previous employer was near criminal. I still don't advocate the state telling him what he has to offer me. When he wouldn't come to terms I put in my time developed my skill got an education and went to his competition. Ive tripped my salary and I'm getting offers to double that in the near future from at least one more company.


I didn't need government mandated restrictions on the free market I needed time to create new opportunities.


Of course I want people that have leave, but it's up to them to create a value that makes them worth leave not some arbitrary politician saying you have a pulse you get ___ that just devalues the sacrifices of others who have made themselves valuable.


Same principle with all welfare, some of it is a necessary evil in such a large society, most of ends up being a bloated program abused in mass at the cost of everyone else.


I have four kids, guess what we didn't plan a single one. My wife couldn't take paternal leave. I had her stay home and raise our children, we learned to live on less. Took multiple jobs for years. I spent years without a single day off so she could raise our kids. Sacrifice not welfare is the solution.

While we're at it we shouldn't allow the government to put rules in working conditions so let's eliminate OSHA. Also why does the government even have a minimum wage? Eliminate it. Also who does the government think they are controlling work hours? Need to eliminate all legislation that legislates working hours.


Yep government really should stay out of the work force so we can get back sweatshops and child labor.

Quote:While we're at it we shouldn't allow the government to put rules in working conditions so let's eliminate OSHA. Also why does the government even have a minimum wage? Eliminate it. Also who does the government think they are controlling work hours? Need to eliminate all legislation that legislates working hours.


Yep government really should stay out of the work force so we can get back sweatshops and child labor.

 

In jest you touch on the truth.

Quote:In jest you touch on the truth.

 

Agreed.

 

OSHA rules have gotten pretty ridiculous.

 

There should be no minimum wage, especially at the federal level.

 

Working hours (as well as compensation) should be between an employer and the employee.

Quote:While we're at it we shouldn't allow the government to put rules in working conditions so let's eliminate OSHA. Also why does the government even have a minimum wage? Eliminate it. Also who does the government think they are controlling work hours? Need to eliminate all legislation that legislates working hours.


Yep government really should stay out of the work force so we can get back sweatshops and child labor.

Sounds good to me, but I laugh at the notion that a lack of registration would lead to child labor.

Quote:Sounds good to me, but I laugh at the notion that a lack of registration would lead to child labor.

Cause it didn't happen before right? False flag?

Quote:Cause it didn't happen before right? False flag?

So the only reason you don't send your child to work is because it's illegal?

Quote:So the only reason you don't send your child to work is because it's illegal?

I can afford not to. Will all adults with kids? So people are just inherently better people now?

Quote:I can afford not to. Will all adults with kids? So people are just inherently better people now?

 

Did it ever occur to you that so-called "adults" who would send their young child to work probably shouldn't be parents to begin with?

Quote:Did it ever occur to you that so-called "adults" who would send their young child to work probably shouldn't be parents to begin with?

It's occurred to me often. But this would require another government intrusion of freedom which you hate.

Quote:I can afford not to. Will all adults with kids? So people are just inherently better people now?

 

History can not be observed in a vacuum, let's face it the era of child labor is irrelevant do to innovation and the elimination of a need for cheap labor by machines. Just as the need for slave labor is irrelevant by innovation and the development of agriculture equipment in mass. 

 

Now do we want to argue the merits of child labor law in large? Or do you want to argue the need for child labor laws? Who has ever suggested there is no need for child labor laws?

 

You made the suggestion that those of us (probably myself most vocally) that advocate a reduced role from the state in the free market would bring back child labor and sweatshops (which the later still exist in behest of your lovely state). 

 

To bring it back full circle the topic at hand is should the state have or enforce the authority to FORCE a private business owner to pay for ANY leave for any period of time the state sets forth. Where is the constitutional authority for the government to play that role? Where is the moral authority for us to require the state play that role? I gave my personal experience as an example, I did not advocate then nor do I now that the state or anyone else use their authority over my employer. I put in my time, defined my skills, pursued an education, developed a craft, made myself marketable and took a position with his competition. THAT'S how the free market works. 

Quote:History can not be observed in a vacuum, let's face it the era of child labor is irrelevant do to innovation and the elimination of a need for cheap labor by machines. Just as the need for slave labor is irrelevant by innovation and the development of agriculture equipment in mass. 

 

 

If they eliminated child labor laws today, there'd be a million kids working tomorrow, due largely to the very market forces you have explained in this and other threads.  And of course, they'd be working for minimum wage, unless we eliminated that too.

 

There's a certain minimum amount of influence the government must have over absolute personal freedom.  In my experience in the workforce, I think we're pretty close to it with the labor, safety, and yes, environmental protection laws the way they are written now.

 

As for paid leave, my wife had it when our son was born, but I didn't.  I wish I had.

 

Boy, for a Republican, Donald sure seems to like the giving everyone free stuff.

Quote:If they eliminated child labor laws today, there'd be a million kids working tomorrow, due largely to the very market forces you have explained in this and other threads.  And of course, they'd be working for minimum wage, unless we eliminated that too.

 

Quote:

 

Deadly serious.

 

FSG, we've both been in the workforce in this country for at least 30 years.  You're actually gonna tell me that there aren't employers out there that would immediately ditch their unskilled labor for cheaper child labor to make a few extra dollars a week?

 

You know they would.  Hell, you may have even worked for a few organizations that would do it.

Quote:Deadly serious.

 

FSG, we've both been in the workforce in this country for at least 30 years.  You're actually gonna tell me that there aren't employers out there that would immediately ditch their unskilled labor for cheaper child labor to make a few extra dollars a week?

 

You know they would.  Hell, you may have even worked for a few organizations that would do it.

 

What unskilled labor would that be? I've worked for school boards and healthcare systems, neither of which have positions that a child could fill.

Quote:What unskilled labor would that be? I've worked for school boards and healthcare systems, neither of which have positions that a child could fill.

I've worked as a dishwasher, stock clerk, deckhand, and landscaper.  All of them could have been done by a 13-year old.  And before you say they're entry level positions for high schoolers, I've seen all ages doing that kind of work.

 

Glad you were able to get in at the top.  My early jobs sucked.

Quote:I've worked as a dishwasher, stock clerk, deckhand, and landscaper. All of them could have been done by a 13-year old. And before you say they're entry level positions for high schoolers, I've seen all ages doing that kind of work.


Glad you were able to get in at the top. My early jobs sucked.

I started out at 12 working in a bowling alley, did construction during high school, then became a janitor at the local elementary school when I graduated. Wasn't exactly the top.