(04-30-2022, 03:28 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 03:24 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]The coping has begun. If three days ago someone told you the extent of the help Trevor would get in the draft was Luke [BLEEP] Fortner everyone would have said it was a failed draft.
I like Lloyd and Muma but it seems redundant given the fact they spent a ton of money on a LB in FA.
They used 3 key assets on linebackers….. while adding no speed in this draft. I mean the Lions traded up to 12 for Jameson Williams!
(04-30-2022, 03:26 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Not me. I have said for months that every pick that helps the team helps Trevor. And if you don't understand that, you need to sit and think about it for a while until you get it. Because it's pretty obvious.
The offense going 3 and out won’t help Trevor.
Pederson will certainly help and so will Kirk but come on man. You’re talking yourself into the Jags spending good money and 2 crucial draft picks on linebackers as if that’s smart.
Good God how many times do I have to explain this? It helps Trevor if we don't start the game down 0-7. It helps Trevor if we don't force him into a shootout every week. It helps Trevor if we make the other team punt, or if we get an interception, or force a fumble. It helps Trevor if we put the offense into favorable field position, instead of every drive starting on our own 25 yard line. It helps Trevor if we don't put the whole game on his back every week. Anything that helps the team win helps Trevor.
(04-30-2022, 03:28 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 03:24 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]The coping has begun. If three days ago someone told you the extent of the help Trevor would get in the draft was Luke [BLEEP] Fortner everyone would have said it was a failed draft.
I like Lloyd and Muma but it seems redundant given the fact they spent a ton of money on a LB in FA.
They used 3 key assets on linebackers….. while adding no speed in this draft. I mean the Lions traded up to 12 for Jameson Williams!
(04-30-2022, 03:26 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Not me. I have said for months that every pick that helps the team helps Trevor. And if you don't understand that, you need to sit and think about it for a while until you get it. Because it's pretty obvious.
The offense going 3 and out won’t help Trevor.
Pederson will certainly help and so will Kirk but come on man. You’re talking yourself into the Jags spending good money and 2 crucial draft picks on linebackers as if that’s smart.
Yeah, I gotta agree. Those high-pick Linebackers won't keep Trevor off his back because linemen failed to protect and receivers failed to get open.
(04-30-2022, 03:40 PM)Sibelius Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 03:28 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I like Lloyd and Muma but it seems redundant given the fact they spent a ton of money on a LB in FA.
They used 3 key assets on linebackers….. while adding no speed in this draft. I mean the Lions traded up to 12 for Jameson Williams!
The offense going 3 and out won’t help Trevor.
Pederson will certainly help and so will Kirk but come on man. You’re talking yourself into the Jags spending good money and 2 crucial draft picks on linebackers as if that’s smart.
Yeah, I gotta agree. Those high-pick Linebackers won't keep Trevor off his back because linemen failed to protect and receivers failed to get open.
But they will keep Trevor off his back if Trevor isn't forced to drop back and pass on every play because we can't stop the other team. Trailing 14-0 in the first quarter is a great way to get your QB killed. Surely you guys can understand this.
(04-30-2022, 03:31 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 03:12 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't say the whole draft was depressing, I said our trades are depressing. We turned 7 assets including our second best asset into a good LB, a short yardage back, and like a 15 pick upgrade on day 3 a year later. That's...less than ideal.
The entirety of our helping Trevor this draft so far has been giving him a C who can't move. We had perhaps the slowest offense in the league before the draft and we have only gotten slower.
Not true but you're entitled to your opinion(s).
NH3...
I mean possibly the Bears room is slower but the Jags WR is very much near the bottom
(04-30-2022, 03:40 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 03:28 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I like Lloyd and Muma but it seems redundant given the fact they spent a ton of money on a LB in FA.
They used 3 key assets on linebackers….. while adding no speed in this draft. I mean the Lions traded up to 12 for Jameson Williams!
The offense going 3 and out won’t help Trevor.
Pederson will certainly help and so will Kirk but come on man. You’re talking yourself into the Jags spending good money and 2 crucial draft picks on linebackers as if that’s smart.
Good God how many times do I have to explain this? It helps Trevor if we don't start the game down 0-7. It helps Trevor if we don't force him into a shootout every week. It helps Trevor if we make the other team punt, or if we get an interception, or force a fumble. It helps Trevor if we put the offense into favorable field position, instead of every drive starting on our own 25 yard line. It helps Trevor if we don't put the whole game on his back every week. Anything that helps the team win helps Trevor.
The defense actually had some really decent games last year….. but it didn’t help Trevor at all. How about that Bills game last year? Was that helping Trevor? You could see a lot of games this season like that.
It’s not that people aren’t understanding your concept. It’s just not some of us don’t agree with it.
I understand that the defense being better, in theory, can help Trevor but that great field position you mention won’t matter a lick if they give the ball right back because they can’t protect Trevor or get open.
(04-30-2022, 03:42 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]But they will keep Trevor off his back if Trevor isn't forced to drop back and pass on every play because we can't stop the other team. Trailing 14-0 in the first quarter is a great way to get your QB killed. Surely you guys can understand this.
And it required giving Foye the highest paid off ball LB contract in the league, the #1 overall pick on an OLB, trading back up into the first to take another off ball LB, and then for good measure taking yet another off ball LB with an early 3rd rounder to accomplish that goal.
(04-30-2022, 03:28 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]The offense going 3 and out won’t help Trevor.
Pederson will certainly help and so will Kirk but come on man. You’re talking yourself into the Jags spending good money and 2 crucial draft picks on linebackers as if that’s smart.
The Jags didn't draft the way I would have drafted. I would have chosen Hutch over Walker. I would have traded up to take Jamo. But Walker is still a good pick. And Lloyd is lights out a good pick. I understand them choosing to make D the priority because the D was closer to being good.
Given that the first two picks were defense, I would have dedicated the rest of the draft to offense. I would have taken Dulcich or Woods at 65. Then I would have taken Tolbert, Austin, or Shakir at 70. Then Salyer in the 5th. I would have taken my RB in the 6th.
But when I dispassionately look at the real picks as compared to my picks, I am not disappointed overall. They made good, solid picks. Even the RB I had never heard of looks like a good fit. I would have preferred more offensive weapons. But Muma and Fortner are really good picks. My logical side knows that we could not get everything where we wanted it in one off-season. But this off-season has been a real success. Our D is going to be really good. And our offense will be much better than it was last year. The future is much brighter than it looked in December.
(04-30-2022, 03:48 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 03:28 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]The offense going 3 and out won’t help Trevor.
Pederson will certainly help and so will Kirk but come on man. You’re talking yourself into the Jags spending good money and 2 crucial draft picks on linebackers as if that’s smart.
The Jags didn't draft the way I would have drafted. I would have chosen Hutch over Walker. I would have traded up to take Jamo. But Walker is still a good pick. And Lloyd is lights out a good pick. I understand them choosing to make D the priority because the D was closer to being good.
Given that the first two picks were defense, I would have dedicated the rest of the draft to offense. I would have taken Dulcich or Woods at 65. Then I would have taken Tolbert, Austin, or Shakir at 70. Then Salyer in the 5th. I would have taken my RB in the 6th.
But when I dispassionately look at the real picks as compared to my picks, I am not disappointed overall. They made good, solid picks. Even the RB I had never heard of looks like a good fit. I would have preferred more offensive weapons. But Muma and Fortner are really good picks. My logical side knows that we could not get everything where we wanted it in one off-season. But this off-season has been a real success. Our D is going to be really good. And our offense will be much better than it was last year. The future is much brighter than it looked in December.
How on Earth would we have traded up for Jamo, lions gave up 32 and 34 we only had 33 to offer
(04-30-2022, 03:42 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 03:40 PM)Sibelius Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I gotta agree. Those high-pick Linebackers won't keep Trevor off his back because linemen failed to protect and receivers failed to get open.
But they will keep Trevor off his back if Trevor isn't forced to drop back and pass on every play because we can't stop the other team. Trailing 14-0 in the first quarter is a great way to get your QB killed. Surely you guys can understand this.
I understand what you're saying and it's a valid point. I just go by the mindset of building from the trenches so trading up to get Linderman was a better choice than for Lloyd, even if they did have to trade up two picks earlier to do it. And after we got one LB I don't think we needed another, not when we hadn't got a WR or TE.
Two LBs improve the defense and that helps Trevor. A lineman and a WR would have helped him more, and more directly.
(04-30-2022, 03:50 PM)Craigukjag Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 03:48 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]The Jags didn't draft the way I would have drafted. I would have chosen Hutch over Walker. I would have traded up to take Jamo. But Walker is still a good pick. And Lloyd is lights out a good pick. I understand them choosing to make D the priority because the D was closer to being good.
Given that the first two picks were defense, I would have dedicated the rest of the draft to offense. I would have taken Dulcich or Woods at 65. Then I would have taken Tolbert, Austin, or Shakir at 70. Then Salyer in the 5th. I would have taken my RB in the 6th.
But when I dispassionately look at the real picks as compared to my picks, I am not disappointed overall. They made good, solid picks. Even the RB I had never heard of looks like a good fit. I would have preferred more offensive weapons. But Muma and Fortner are really good picks. My logical side knows that we could not get everything where we wanted it in one off-season. But this off-season has been a real success. Our D is going to be really good. And our offense will be much better than it was last year. The future is much brighter than it looked in December.
How on Earth would we have traded up for Jamo, lions gave up 32 and 34 we only had 33 to offer
33, next years 2ND and another 3rd rounder.
Imagine this:
1. Walker
2. Jamo
3. Muma
That’s a crazy draft no matter who the other picks are.
(04-30-2022, 03:50 PM)Craigukjag Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 03:48 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ]The Jags didn't draft the way I would have drafted. I would have chosen Hutch over Walker. I would have traded up to take Jamo. But Walker is still a good pick. And Lloyd is lights out a good pick. I understand them choosing to make D the priority because the D was closer to being good.
Given that the first two picks were defense, I would have dedicated the rest of the draft to offense. I would have taken Dulcich or Woods at 65. Then I would have taken Tolbert, Austin, or Shakir at 70. Then Salyer in the 5th. I would have taken my RB in the 6th.
But when I dispassionately look at the real picks as compared to my picks, I am not disappointed overall. They made good, solid picks. Even the RB I had never heard of looks like a good fit. I would have preferred more offensive weapons. But Muma and Fortner are really good picks. My logical side knows that we could not get everything where we wanted it in one off-season. But this off-season has been a real success. Our D is going to be really good. And our offense will be much better than it was last year. The future is much brighter than it looked in December.
How on Earth would we have traded up for Jamo, lions gave up 32 and 34 we only had 33 to offer
I would have given 34, 65, and a combination of late round picks or a future pick.
(04-30-2022, 03:50 PM)Sibelius Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 03:42 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]But they will keep Trevor off his back if Trevor isn't forced to drop back and pass on every play because we can't stop the other team. Trailing 14-0 in the first quarter is a great way to get your QB killed. Surely you guys can understand this.
I understand what you're saying and it's a valid point. I just go by the mindset of building from the trenches so trading up to get Linderman was a better choice than for Lloyd, even if they did have to trade up two picks earlier to do it. And after we got one LB I don't think we needed another, not when we hadn't got a WR or TE.
Two LBs improve the defense and that helps Trevor. A lineman and a WR would have helped him more, and more directly.
I get the theory of drafting a wide receiver would have helped more but just because you’ve heard the name and like the player doesn’t mean it’s a good pick, most of the draft will only stay in the league a couple of years. Of the 17 wr drafted in the first 3 rounds it’s very possible at least half won’t be impactful. I for one always ask for best player available and they clearly have picked the players they felt were the best available. And they hve more of an idea than I do so just got to hope for the best ,
(04-30-2022, 03:52 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 03:50 PM)Craigukjag Wrote: [ -> ]How on Earth would we have traded up for Jamo, lions gave up 32 and 34 we only had 33 to offer
I would have given 34, 65, and a combination of late round picks or a future pick.
Why would Viking accept that when they got 32 and 34 and late round picks ??
(04-30-2022, 03:54 PM)Craigukjag Wrote: [ -> ]Why would Viking accept that when they got 32 and 34 and late round picks ??
The Vikings gave 46 also. 33 and 65 alone is better than 32 and 34 and giving up 46 IMO.
(04-30-2022, 03:48 PM)I am Yoda Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 03:28 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]The offense going 3 and out won’t help Trevor.
Pederson will certainly help and so will Kirk but come on man. You’re talking yourself into the Jags spending good money and 2 crucial draft picks on linebackers as if that’s smart.
The Jags didn't draft the way I would have drafted. I would have chosen Hutch over Walker. I would have traded up to take Jamo. But Walker is still a good pick. And Lloyd is lights out a good pick. I understand them choosing to make D the priority because the D was closer to being good.
Given that the first two picks were defense, I would have dedicated the rest of the draft to offense. I would have taken Dulcich or Woods at 65. Then I would have taken Tolbert, Austin, or Shakir at 70. Then Salyer in the 5th. I would have taken my RB in the 6th.
But when I dispassionately look at the real picks as compared to my picks, I am not disappointed overall. They made good, solid picks. Even the RB I had never heard of looks like a good fit. I would have preferred more offensive weapons. But Muma and Fortner are really good picks. My logical side knows that we could not get everything where we wanted it in one off-season. But this off-season has been a real success. Our D is going to be really good. And our offense will be much better than it was last year. The future is much brighter than it looked in December.
I can get behind what you’re saying for sure.
The Jags defense is going to be really good next season but I think the offense will be very behind. I just would have liked to see the Jags be aggressive like the Eagles, Raiders, and Fins. Trade for a proven #1 dude.
We gave up 2 picks to trade up and make one of the biggest reaches of the round at the least valuable position in the sport where we are already very heavily invested. This is why bad teams stay bad.
![[Image: FRnfHvqXoAAIIa1?format=png&name=small]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FRnfHvqXoAAIIa1?format=png&name=small)
(04-30-2022, 03:40 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, all of Walker, Lloyd (including the trade), and Muma look like good picks in isolation. However, when you look at the draft as a cohesive idea to try to improve a team and then consider the opportunity cost of giving 33 and 106 for a LB it's hard to say that this draft makes us that much better.
If we had kept 33 and 106 and taken say Skyy/Pickens and Kolar/Bellinger then traded the 6ths for Waletzko who we had in for a private workout it would be a far more well rounded and I think improved draft.
That’s pretty much where I’m at. The sum of the parts isn’t bad, but the whole is disappointing. It’s not a terrible draft, but it is a mediocre draft, which is what mediocre teams do. At least we’ve stepped up from a terrible team having a terrible drafts, so it’s progress. These last two drafts just aren’t the kind of drafts that are going to put us in the playoffs.
I wish I could travel to an alternate universe and see what an Adrian Wilson/Byron Leftwich 2022 draft would have looked like.
(04-30-2022, 03:59 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]We gave up 2 picks to trade up and make one of the biggest reaches of the round at the least valuable position in the sport where we are already very heavily invested. This is why bad teams stay bad.
You're actually reaching here at this point. They went up and drafted a guy that actually fits an immediate need with rotational traits already apart of his history. At a position that offers the most highest success rate at that point. We're heavily invested how, by the way? Robinson get a contract extension yet? He's coming off an ACL late from last year. Etienne has not even played a regular season game yet coming back from a Lisfranc injury that typically ends a runners career.
While also landing a future fourth round selection in next year's draft. Be honest with yourself, this class in general, across the board? It's relatively weak due to a vast number of reasons. Next year's class stands to be a little bit more refined because the covid restriction stuff is going away.
Bad teams stay bad because they miss with their high draft picks and fail in extending their competent talent. They don't fail because they [BLEEP] traded up low value picks for a position of need that makes a lot of sense on paper.
Give me a break man. Go get a drink already! Sheesh!
(04-30-2022, 04:04 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Give me a break man. Go get a drink already! Sheesh!
I may be mistaken, but I don't remember you being such a mark.
(04-30-2022, 04:05 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (04-30-2022, 04:04 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Give me a break man. Go get a drink already! Sheesh!
I may be mistaken, but I don't remember you being such a mark.
You're a downer man. I honestly can't stand you or your really [BLEEP] piss takes around here.
Dang, Zach Thomas and Zakelj in the last few picks. Those would have been really good upside gambles with our pick coming up.