(03-30-2023, 11:20 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-30-2023, 10:01 AM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting take
I think, despite commenting publicly that he was looking for the best shot at a ring, Calais and his agent ultimately went after money and maybe some other assurances or accommodations that made ATL more attractive.
Not the best football decision for CC, but you can't control these outcomes and can only offer what makes sense for the organization.
Apparently the non football stuff played a big factor in his decision. Can't really control that either.
(03-29-2023, 08:11 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2023, 03:16 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]That’s pure needs based drafting. I wouldn’t draft a nickel corner in the top 3 rounds. That’s an undersized corner who’s not on the field the whole time. You find those guys in the later rounds or bargain basement free agency. Draft a strong, physical corner who can run with the big dogs in the first three rounds.
I believe you misunderstood me. I'm not against drafting a top corner in rounds 1 or 2. Porter, Witherspoon, Gonzales and Banks would be excellent picks in round 1 as would Brents and Phillips in round 2. All of these players could immediately start at corner in 2023 unless the coaching staff feels Williams would be a liability at nickel. In that case, the rookie would be the starting nickel in 2023 and then replace Williams as cornerback in 2024. Williams has improved since being moved to corner, but he'd be a prime candidate to be released in 2024 due to his salary cap figure.
We do disagree, however, on the importance of the nickel-back. Most defenses utilize 5 defensive backs about 60% of the time. Good quarterbacks will target the "weak link" consistently to take advantage of mis-matches. I like the effort that Tre Herndon displays on the field, but he lacks the athleticism and speed to cover good receivers. He was an undrafted free agent for that reason and his PFF ratings have been very poor. I mentioned Bryce Callahan due to his success playing nickel and the reasonable price they could sign him for. If the Jaguars don't sign Callahan or draft one of the top corners, I wouldn't hesitate to draft Quan Martin or Tre'Vious Hodges Tomlinson in round 3 or Riley Moss in round 4 to upgrade the nickel position.
Yes, indeed, I misunderstood you. My sincerest apologies. Yes, by all means sign a nickel corner in free agency, but I wouldn't waste top draft capital on a 60% player.
(03-30-2023, 12:53 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ] (03-29-2023, 08:11 PM)jaglou53 Wrote: [ -> ]I believe you misunderstood me. I'm not against drafting a top corner in rounds 1 or 2. Porter, Witherspoon, Gonzales and Banks would be excellent picks in round 1 as would Brents and Phillips in round 2. All of these players could immediately start at corner in 2023 unless the coaching staff feels Williams would be a liability at nickel. In that case, the rookie would be the starting nickel in 2023 and then replace Williams as cornerback in 2024. Williams has improved since being moved to corner, but he'd be a prime candidate to be released in 2024 due to his salary cap figure.
We do disagree, however, on the importance of the nickel-back. Most defenses utilize 5 defensive backs about 60% of the time. Good quarterbacks will target the "weak link" consistently to take advantage of mis-matches. I like the effort that Tre Herndon displays on the field, but he lacks the athleticism and speed to cover good receivers. He was an undrafted free agent for that reason and his PFF ratings have been very poor. I mentioned Bryce Callahan due to his success playing nickel and the reasonable price they could sign him for. If the Jaguars don't sign Callahan or draft one of the top corners, I wouldn't hesitate to draft Quan Martin or Tre'Vious Hodges Tomlinson in round 3 or Riley Moss in round 4 to upgrade the nickel position.
Yes, indeed, I misunderstood you. My sincerest apologies. Yes, by all means sign a nickel corner in free agency, but I wouldn't waste top draft capital on a 60% player.
No problem.
CC to get 7 mil guaranteed and can earn up to 9 mil.
(03-31-2023, 10:26 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]CC to get 7 mil guaranteed and can earn up to 9 mil.
Yep. Not a bad Pay day
Yeah I bet it’s about 2-4 million more than we were offering
Pity as would have been good here but on the flip side he doesn't have much left and needs to think about this future so taking more money makes sense on a personal level.
Matt Hayes said on the radio today that he heard from agents that Shad was looking to limit guaranteed money to UFA after restructuring the players who were already on the roster.
(03-31-2023, 08:54 PM)jagsfan06 Wrote: [ -> ]Matt Hayes said on the radio today that he heard from agents that Shad was looking to limit guaranteed money to UFA after restructuring the players who were already on the roster.
Prudent, he would rather expend that resource on our guys.
(03-31-2023, 01:34 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah I bet it’s about 2-4 million more than we were offering
Imagine not wasting 2m on Tre Herndon, and bringing back Calais who may actually contribute.
(04-01-2023, 01:11 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (03-31-2023, 01:34 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah I bet it’s about 2-4 million more than we were offering
Imagine not wasting 2m on Tre Herndon, and bringing back Calais who may actually contribute.
I don't know why you continue to harp on the Herndon deal when CB depth is far more of a need than the contract they gave to Wingard. They made Wingard the highest paid Special Teams player in the entire NFL, yet CB depth at one of our weakest position groups is the problem??
If Calais wanted to be here, he'd be here. He obviously didn't want to be here which is why he signed else where. Get over it.
(04-01-2023, 01:11 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (03-31-2023, 01:34 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah I bet it’s about 2-4 million more than we were offering
Imagine not wasting 2m on Tre Herndon, and bringing back Calais who may actually contribute.
Imagine not knowing what we offered Calais.
(04-01-2023, 01:11 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (03-31-2023, 01:34 PM)Newton Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah I bet it’s about 2-4 million more than we were offering
Imagine not wasting 2m on Tre Herndon, and bringing back Calais who may actually contribute.
Herp derp.
On the radio yesterday, someone read a list of remaining free agent pass rushers, and it was quite a list of names. There were a dozen or more that would fit the role of situational pass rusher if the price is right. The speculation was that we are simply waiting for the market to settle as these guys fail to land a contract at the level they are asking for.
Yannick Ngakoue, Jadavion Clowney, Leonard Floyd, Frank Clark, Justin Houston, Melvin Ingram, just to name a few.
(04-01-2023, 03:32 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-01-2023, 01:11 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Imagine not wasting 2m on Tre Herndon, and bringing back Calais who may actually contribute.
I don't know why you continue to harp on the Herndon deal when CB depth is far more of a need than the contract they gave to Wingard. They made Wingard the highest paid Special Teams player in the entire NFL, yet CB depth at one of our weakest position groups is the problem??
If Calais wanted to be here, he'd be here. He obviously didn't want to be here which is why he signed else where. Get over it.
While I don't really care for the Wingard contract either, it's laughable to say we're deeper at safety than corner. We have our outside guys locked down, we resigned Trevaugn Campbell and i'd bet my life savings we draft 2 more corners in the draft.
Who do we have at safety?
Jenkins? Average/meh
Cisco? Could be good, but currently average
Wingard? is barely a drop off when he steps in for Jenkins.
Herndon is outclassed by the two guys infront of him on the depth chart and he WILL be replaced in the draft as a slot corner, and you don't give fully guranteed contracts to 5th stringers imo.
(04-01-2023, 06:24 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-01-2023, 01:11 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Imagine not wasting 2m on Tre Herndon, and bringing back Calais who may actually contribute.
Imagine not knowing what we offered Calais.
Don't think we would disrespect calais to have offered him much less than the Falcons did.
(04-02-2023, 04:21 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (04-01-2023, 03:32 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know why you continue to harp on the Herndon deal when CB depth is far more of a need than the contract they gave to Wingard. They made Wingard the highest paid Special Teams player in the entire NFL, yet CB depth at one of our weakest position groups is the problem??
If Calais wanted to be here, he'd be here. He obviously didn't want to be here which is why he signed else where. Get over it.
While I don't really care for the Wingard contract either, it's laughable to say we're deeper at safety than corner. We have our outside guys locked down, we resigned Trevaugn Campbell and i'd bet my life savings we draft 2 more corners in the draft.
Who do we have at safety?
Jenkins? Average/meh
Cisco? Could be good, but currently average
Wingard? is barely a drop off when he steps in for Jenkins.
Herndon is outclassed by the two guys infront of him on the depth chart and he WILL be replaced in the draft as a slot corner, and you don't give fully guranteed contracts to 5th stringers imo.
(04-01-2023, 06:24 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]Imagine not knowing what we offered Calais.
Don't think we would disrespect calais to have offered him much less than the Falcons did.
“Herndon is outclassed by the two guys in front of him on the depth chart”
So is every other backup player in the entire world. That’s why they are backups. Come on man.
(04-03-2023, 12:07 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ] (04-02-2023, 04:21 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]While I don't really care for the Wingard contract either, it's laughable to say we're deeper at safety than corner. We have our outside guys locked down, we resigned Trevaugn Campbell and i'd bet my life savings we draft 2 more corners in the draft.
Who do we have at safety?
Jenkins? Average/meh
Cisco? Could be good, but currently average
Wingard? is barely a drop off when he steps in for Jenkins.
Herndon is outclassed by the two guys infront of him on the depth chart and he WILL be replaced in the draft as a slot corner, and you don't give fully guranteed contracts to 5th stringers imo.
Don't think we would disrespect calais to have offered him much less than the Falcons did.
“Herndon is outclassed by the two guys in front of him on the depth chart”
So is every other backup player in the entire world. That’s why they are backups. Come on man.
The point was
Wingard, is a backup at a position where he really isn't much of a drop off in talent if he comes in for the starters, and his contract isn't fully guranteed.
Herndon, is a backup at a position where when he came in he was a complete liability, and likely will be replaced in the draft.. doubt he will see the field too much outside of ST this year. Yet got a fully guranteed contract.
(04-03-2023, 12:18 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2023, 12:07 AM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]“Herndon is outclassed by the two guys in front of him on the depth chart”
So is every other backup player in the entire world. That’s why they are backups. Come on man.
The point was
Wingard, is a backup at a position where he really isn't much of a drop off in talent if he comes in for the starters, and his contract isn't fully guranteed.
Herndon, is a backup at a position where when he came in he was a complete liability, and likely will be replaced in the draft.. doubt he will see the field too much outside of ST this year. Yet got a fully guranteed contract.
If the team gave him $25mil, you'd have a point, but they gave him $2.5mil. A 1 year deal for $2.5mil is nothing in today's day and age by NFL contract standards and doesn't prevent our team from doing anything at all if they decide to go a different direction. This isn't worth getting bent out of shape over.
(04-03-2023, 08:47 AM)scottyg Wrote: [ -> ] (04-03-2023, 12:18 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]The point was
Wingard, is a backup at a position where he really isn't much of a drop off in talent if he comes in for the starters, and his contract isn't fully guranteed.
Herndon, is a backup at a position where when he came in he was a complete liability, and likely will be replaced in the draft.. doubt he will see the field too much outside of ST this year. Yet got a fully guranteed contract.
If the team gave him $25mil, you'd have a point, but they gave him $2.5mil. A 1 year deal for $2.5mil is nothing in today's day and age by NFL contract standards and doesn't prevent our team from doing anything at all if they decide to go a different direction. This isn't worth getting bent out of shape over.
There's nothing too small for him to get bent out of shape over.
You guys worry way too much about someone else's money. Nothing we did this offseason prevented the team from signing someone/hurt us. We have the money to match the Falcons deal, we chose not to.