(02-15-2023, 12:59 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ] (02-15-2023, 10:59 AM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ]The Lions have said they would like to add some defensive talent to the roster, either through free agency, the draft, or both. A local sports article there speculated they could envision a trade for Josh Allen (and the Lion's 18th pick in round 1) to pair with Hutchinson. Although it is just speculative, not based on anything from either organization, I do think it is interesting to ponder.
For fun, if such a trade happened, who would you take at 1-18? Does such a trade scenario make sense from a Jag's perspective?
Would the lions be taking on his full cap hit and guaranteed money?
Either way. I wouldn't do it for 1/18. I'd consider it for one of their interior o-line starters plus a lower pick.
I changed my mind. I'd do this trade if O'Cyrus Torrence was available at 1/18. Then I'd use 1/24 to try to replace Josh Allen.
Pondered the "just for fun" Josh Allen for Detroit's 1-18 pick, and I think I'd do it.
Save $10.9m in this year's cap, and likely $15m+ each year if he is re-signed long term, for a player that has flashed at spots, but been mostly mediocre. This team needs a 'closer' to get sacks on the opposing QB and get the opposing DC to have to game plan on him and get the opposing QB anxious in 3rd and long, and Josh is just not that guy. A rookie contract Travon Walker can give us the big edge 'stop the run' guy that Josh is today. I would miss his leadership and his departure would leave a hole to fill. With the 18th pick, for me, it would be a toss-up between the best CB or edge rusher on the board.
I’m back and forth on this one. If he’s gone, we can still win. If he stays, I know what I’m getting out of him.
I can use that money to sign guys I really want.
(02-17-2023, 04:28 PM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ]Pondered the "just for fun" Josh Allen for Detroit's 1-18 pick, and I think I'd do it.
Save $10.9m in this year's cap, and likely $15m+ each year if he is re-signed long term, for a player that has flashed at spots, but been mostly mediocre. This team needs a 'closer' to get sacks on the opposing QB and get the opposing DC to have to game plan on him and get the opposing QB anxious in 3rd and long, and Josh is just not that guy. A rookie contract Travon Walker can give us the big edge 'stop the run' guy that Josh is today. I would miss his leadership and his departure would leave a hole to fill. With the 18th pick, for me, it would be a toss-up between the best CB or edge rusher on the board.
Sweet then we can draft another bust like Chaisson because the grass is always greener right?
You don't replace somebody until you already have a better replacement on the roster. Hoping that a rookie drafted in the back half of the 1st round is going to come in and be better than your 5th year vet (who's still only 25) is foolish and usually always bites you in the [BLEEP]. Especially when it's an Edge rusher and those guys take time to develop. All we'd be doing is making a weak group even weaker.
Really hope he is not gone. As really would be a huge blow. As the team is rebuilding!
(02-17-2023, 09:46 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-17-2023, 04:28 PM)ATLjag Wrote: [ -> ]Pondered the "just for fun" Josh Allen for Detroit's 1-18 pick, and I think I'd do it.
Save $10.9m in this year's cap, and likely $15m+ each year if he is re-signed long term, for a player that has flashed at spots, but been mostly mediocre. This team needs a 'closer' to get sacks on the opposing QB and get the opposing DC to have to game plan on him and get the opposing QB anxious in 3rd and long, and Josh is just not that guy. A rookie contract Travon Walker can give us the big edge 'stop the run' guy that Josh is today. I would miss his leadership and his departure would leave a hole to fill. With the 18th pick, for me, it would be a toss-up between the best CB or edge rusher on the board.
Sweet then we can draft another bust like Chaisson because the grass is always greener right?
You don't replace somebody until you already have a better replacement on the roster. Hoping that a rookie drafted in the back half of the 1st round is going to come in and be better than your 5th year vet (who's still only 25) is foolish and usually always bites you in the [BLEEP]. Especially when it's an Edge rusher and those guys take time to develop. All we'd be doing is making a weak group even weaker.
The drought of competent pass rush we experienced between Tony Brackens and the "Sacksonville" squad clearly was not educational for many fans.
Pass rushers don't grow on trees.
Josh Allen is a bird in hand that you hold on to - even if lots of fans have the misperception that he was "bad" in 2022.
There are 64 guys in the league that try to affect the passer from DE or OLB getting the majority of snaps on their teams.
Josh Allen's cumulative stats rank him around 17-23 on that list of 64 depending on whose analysis you like better.
Why would you look to offload that??
He will probably have his best season in 23. Jags defense needs one or two more players and coach Caldwell to call great defense more consistently next season.
(02-18-2023, 07:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-17-2023, 09:46 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Sweet then we can draft another bust like Chaisson because the grass is always greener right?
You don't replace somebody until you already have a better replacement on the roster. Hoping that a rookie drafted in the back half of the 1st round is going to come in and be better than your 5th year vet (who's still only 25) is foolish and usually always bites you in the [BLEEP]. Especially when it's an Edge rusher and those guys take time to develop. All we'd be doing is making a weak group even weaker.
The drought of competent pass rush we experienced between Tony Brackens and the "Sacksonville" squad clearly was not educational for many fans.
Pass rushers don't grow on trees.
Josh Allen is a bird in hand that you hold on to - even if lots of fans have the misperception that he was "bad" in 2022.
There are 64 guys in the league that try to affect the passer from DE or OLB getting the majority of snaps on their teams.
Josh Allen's cumulative stats rank him around 17-23 on that list of 64 depending on whose analysis you like better.
Why would you look to offload that??
Because people love to focus only on the sack stat and if a player doesn't put up 15 sacks per year then he clearly must be a bad player lol.
I said it months ago at the trade deadline that it'd be a bad decision to get rid of him and I'll continue to say it. We will regret it if they don't extend him and let him walk after next season.
And don't get me wrong, even if they extend him now, I'm still all for going pass rusher with pick 24. You can simply never have enough of them and we need more depth regardless.
(02-18-2023, 11:06 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2023, 07:32 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The drought of competent pass rush we experienced between Tony Brackens and the "Sacksonville" squad clearly was not educational for many fans.
Pass rushers don't grow on trees.
Josh Allen is a bird in hand that you hold on to - even if lots of fans have the misperception that he was "bad" in 2022.
There are 64 guys in the league that try to affect the passer from DE or OLB getting the majority of snaps on their teams.
Josh Allen's cumulative stats rank him around 17-23 on that list of 64 depending on whose analysis you like better.
Why would you look to offload that??
Because people love to focus only on the sack stat and if a player doesn't put up 15 sacks per year then he clearly must be a bad player lol.
I said it months ago at the trade deadline that it'd be a bad decision to get rid of him and I'll continue to say it. We will regret it if they don't extend him and let him walk after next season.
And don't get me wrong, even if they extend him now, I'm still all for going pass rusher with pick 24. You can simply never have enough of them and we need more depth regardless.
Personally I feel like our Josh Allen is like the DE version of Derrek Carr. A guy that has shown promise, briefly.. but typically just dosen't get the job done. I would absolutely trade him for a top 20 pick tho, without batting an eye nobody will offer a 1st for him i'd almost gurantee that.
(02-19-2023, 03:49 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2023, 11:06 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Because people love to focus only on the sack stat and if a player doesn't put up 15 sacks per year then he clearly must be a bad player lol.
I said it months ago at the trade deadline that it'd be a bad decision to get rid of him and I'll continue to say it. We will regret it if they don't extend him and let him walk after next season.
And don't get me wrong, even if they extend him now, I'm still all for going pass rusher with pick 24. You can simply never have enough of them and we need more depth regardless.
Personally I feel like our Josh Allen is like the DE version of Derrek Carr. A guy that has shown promise, briefly.. but typically just dosen't get the job done. I would absolutely trade him for a top 20 pick tho, without batting an eye nobody will offer a 1st for him i'd almost gurantee that.
Well you also personally thought Lawrence was trash and we know how that turned out. So while being wrong there, you're also wrong about Allen, because multiple teams offered a 1st round pick for him at the trade deadline that this front office rightfully turned down.
(02-19-2023, 03:49 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (02-18-2023, 11:06 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Because people love to focus only on the sack stat and if a player doesn't put up 15 sacks per year then he clearly must be a bad player lol.
I said it months ago at the trade deadline that it'd be a bad decision to get rid of him and I'll continue to say it. We will regret it if they don't extend him and let him walk after next season.
And don't get me wrong, even if they extend him now, I'm still all for going pass rusher with pick 24. You can simply never have enough of them and we need more depth regardless.
Personally I feel like our Josh Allen is like the DE version of Derrek Carr. A guy that has shown promise, briefly.. but typically just dosen't get the job done. I would absolutely trade him for a top 20 pick tho, without batting an eye nobody will offer a 1st for him i'd almost gurantee that.
every premise and assertion made here is incorrect ^
(02-19-2023, 09:30 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2023, 03:49 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Personally I feel like our Josh Allen is like the DE version of Derrek Carr. A guy that has shown promise, briefly.. but typically just dosen't get the job done. I would absolutely trade him for a top 20 pick tho, without batting an eye nobody will offer a 1st for him i'd almost gurantee that.
every premise and assertion made here is incorrect ^
I don't count the Cheifs first as a first, more of a super early 2nd rounder if you ask me.
(02-19-2023, 04:03 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2023, 03:49 AM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]Personally I feel like our Josh Allen is like the DE version of Derrek Carr. A guy that has shown promise, briefly.. but typically just dosen't get the job done. I would absolutely trade him for a top 20 pick tho, without batting an eye nobody will offer a 1st for him i'd almost gurantee that.
Well you also personally thought Lawrence was trash and we know how that turned out. So while being wrong there, you're also wrong about Allen, because multiple teams offered a 1st round pick for him at the trade deadline that this front office rightfully turned down.
Overrated was my thoughts on him. And half a season of good football dosen't exaclty prove that wrong, nor does a 25 td season.
(02-19-2023, 12:42 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2023, 09:30 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]every premise and assertion made here is incorrect ^
I don't count the Cheifs first as a first, more of a super early 2nd rounder if you ask me.
(02-19-2023, 04:03 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Well you also personally thought Lawrence was trash and we know how that turned out. So while being wrong there, you're also wrong about Allen, because multiple teams offered a 1st round pick for him at the trade deadline that this front office rightfully turned down.
Overrated was my thoughts on him. And half a season of good football dosen't exaclty prove that wrong, nor does a 25 td season.
Ok, so let me get this straight. You are doubling down on your opinions that TL is trash and so is Josh Allen? Let's take out the chance of a miscommunication here.
(02-19-2023, 12:42 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2023, 09:30 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]every premise and assertion made here is incorrect ^
I don't count the Cheifs first as a first, more of a super early 2nd rounder if you ask me.
(02-19-2023, 04:03 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Well you also personally thought Lawrence was trash and we know how that turned out. So while being wrong there, you're also wrong about Allen, because multiple teams offered a 1st round pick for him at the trade deadline that this front office rightfully turned down.
Overrated was my thoughts on him. And half a season of good football dosen't exaclty prove that wrong, nor does a 25 td season.
See? All it takes is to ignore reality by redefining words and then your trash becomes legitimate.
(02-19-2023, 12:42 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2023, 09:30 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]every premise and assertion made here is incorrect ^
I don't count the Cheifs first as a first, more of a super early 2nd rounder if you ask me.
(02-19-2023, 04:03 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Well you also personally thought Lawrence was trash and we know how that turned out. So while being wrong there, you're also wrong about Allen, because multiple teams offered a 1st round pick for him at the trade deadline that this front office rightfully turned down.
Overrated was my thoughts on him. And half a season of good football dosen't exaclty prove that wrong, nor does a 25 td season.
Jesus Christ, here we go again
(02-19-2023, 12:42 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2023, 09:30 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]every premise and assertion made here is incorrect ^
I don't count the Cheifs first as a first, more of a super early 2nd rounder if you ask me.
(02-19-2023, 04:03 AM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Well you also personally thought Lawrence was trash and we know how that turned out. So while being wrong there, you're also wrong about Allen, because multiple teams offered a 1st round pick for him at the trade deadline that this front office rightfully turned down.
Overrated was my thoughts on him. And half a season of good football dosen't exaclty prove that wrong, nor does a 25 td season.
Yawn. Stop trying to downplay your hate campaign. These are just a few of your verbatim words on Lawrence:
![[Image: cjb-clown-TL.png]](https://i.postimg.cc/hGgkX3FC/cjb-clown-TL.png)
And now, you're being nearly as stupid with your crap takes on Josh Allen.
Josh Allen is better than you think he is. Just like Lawrence is.
(02-20-2023, 10:05 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2023, 12:42 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I don't count the Cheifs first as a first, more of a super early 2nd rounder if you ask me.
Overrated was my thoughts on him. And half a season of good football dosen't exaclty prove that wrong, nor does a 25 td season.
Yawn. Stop trying to downplay your hate campaign. These are just a few of your verbatim words on Lawrence:
And now, you're being nearly as stupid with your crap takes on Josh Allen.
Josh Allen is better than you think he is. Just like Lawrence is.
Can we just take that graphic and make it his permanent signature?
(02-19-2023, 01:42 PM)Jag149 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-19-2023, 12:42 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ]I don't count the Cheifs first as a first, more of a super early 2nd rounder if you ask me.
Overrated was my thoughts on him. And half a season of good football dosen't exaclty prove that wrong, nor does a 25 td season.
Ok, so let me get this straight. You are doubling down on your opinions that TL is trash and so is Josh Allen? Let's take out the chance of a miscommunication here.
Can't double down on a take I never made. But to answer your question, no I don't think half a season of good football and less than 2 tds a game average qualifies as an elite QB.. basically what i'm saying is, he made huge strides going from 12-17 to 25-8 absolutely but if he were to be in the 25 td 8 int range for the remainder of his career, he'd be more in the class of an Alex Smith in my eyes.
Josh Allen is has had plenty of time to show what he is and has been a very meh player, not worthy of his draft selection at all thusfar no.
