Quote:You need to work on your reading comprehension. Again your college indoctrination "education" has failed you.
I never called you a "typical liberal" I said that your remark was a "pretty typical liberal condescending remark.". If I "attacked" anything it was your remark, not you personally.
Admit it, apologize and move on.
Did you not attack me by cutting out the point you wanted to attack?
Quote:Pretty typical liberal condescending remark.
So people <del>indoctrinated</del> "educated" in a University are the only real thinkers and innovators? Somebody should have told Steve Wozniak that.
The same Wozniak who has a degree from Berkely?
Quote:The same Wozniak who has a degree from Berkely?
What?? He was indoctrinated by a commie pinko University? How the heck did he become so successful? Well, clearly he un-learned all that brainwashing in order to become so successfull....
Quote:What?? He was indoctrinated by a commie pinko University? How the heck did he become so successful? Well, clearly he un-learned all that brainwashing in order to become so successfull....
Actually in his biography it was an extremely important task for him to complete. He knew the value of the education and worked very hard for the honor.
Quote:Actually in his biography it was an extremely important task for him to complete. He knew the value of the education and worked very hard for the honor.
What a snob. LOL.
Again, there's always going to be a place for trade schools, and not everyone needs to go to college. And college does not nessissarily prove success or failure. But there's a reason why advances in the sciences, medicine, etc are driven by Universities and graduates of them.
To look at them as some sort of indoctrination center in which no free thought is occurring is just wrong. And it shows a level of antipathy to a major institution that drives the success of our nation,
Quote:No it's just your inability to understand. Studying professors is harder than studying the course material, and I did both. When I said, "Get straight A's and learn nothing", did you really think that meant literally, "learn nothing"? I learned the course material, learned the professor, and learned how to be successful as measured by the grading system.
But learning is much more than stroking the ego of your teacher and much more than repeating what you are told. I've said before I couldn't really learn about the world until I unlearned much of what I already knew. A formal education is a form of indoctrination.
How can anything new be learned or discovered if one only parrots the textbooks?
Exactly my point.
Put the parts in bold (black) together and that's exactly what is wrong with our education system. From grade school up through college people are
indoctrinated taught to learn the "correct answer". Questioning how the answer is the "correct answer" is not allowed.
One of my favorite clips from Steve Wozniak describes it better than I can. It's a 3 minute clip, but it's relevant regarding the whole education system.
That leads to the part in red. It happens from the grade school level up to and including college level.
Quote:The same Wozniak who has a degree from Berkely?
The same one that actually designed his first computer before he completed high school. The same one that didn't go back and complete his degree until well after the success of the Apple II.
Quote:What?? He was indoctrinated by a commie pinko University? How the heck did he become so successful? Well, clearly he un-learned all that brainwashing in order to become so successfull....
He was so successful because he shunned a college education and followed what he knew. He didn't complete his college education until
after Apple was successful.
Quote:Exactly my point.
Put the parts in bold (black) together and that's exactly what is wrong with our education system. From grade school up through college people are indoctrinated taught to learn the "correct answer". Questioning how the answer is the "correct answer" is not allowed.
One of my favorite clips from Steve Wozniak describes it better than I can. It's a 3 minute clip, but it's relevant regarding the whole education system.
That leads to the part in red. It happens from the grade school level up to and including college level.
Oh dear... First of all, he's critiquing K-12 schools... LOL.
And you realize that when you are being taught material, at first thinking outside the box is not really that good an idea. 2+2 is 4. But, I guess they should be taught outside the box because otherwise, they are being indoctrinated.
That's just about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. I want my kids to learn the basics in K-12. There are courses, like History, Literature, etc where creative thought is still taught. But grammar, math, science, in a K-12 setting are the foundation of critical thought.
You cannot think critically if you don't first have the fundamental foundation taught to you.
Quote:He was so successful because he shunned a college education and followed what he knew. He didn't complete his college education until after Apple was successful.
Rare occasions. Bill Gates also went through something similar. Same with Albert Einstein. All these people were able to become successful without the formal education.
Not sure I want to create a society where we just hope people will figure it out on their own. That sounds like the stupidest way to run a society. Thank goodness most people realize the basis of our advancements is learning the fundamentals, then moving forward to think critically.
Those people tend to become PhD's and to think outside the box. As a K-12 and undergrad, you're still learning the fundamentals.
Again, if you wouldn't have deleted out the part where I discussed this, we'd actually be in agreement. Instead, you deleted out where I pointed to the fact that some entrepreneurs do go far without a formal education in order to attack me.
It's a shame you did that...
Quote:He was so successful because he shunned a college education and followed what he knew. He didn't complete his college education until after Apple was successful.
He didn't ever shun college. And his biography is clear in that. Unless you think he lies. He did take time off to earn money to pay for his last year.
Your making the facts up in contrary to what Steve has laid out himself.
Quote:Again, if you wouldn't have deleted out the part where I discussed this, we'd actually be in agreement. Instead, you deleted out where I pointed to the fact that some entrepreneurs do go far without a formal education in order to attack me.
It's a shame you did that...
O.K. I'll apologize for triggering you. I didn't realize that my focus on your liberal condescending remark would hurt your little snowflake feelings so much.
I never attacked you, only your remark.
Quote:He didn't ever shun college. And his biography is clear in that. Unless you think he lies. He did take time off to earn money to pay for his last year.
Your making the facts up in contrary to what Steve has laid out himself.
O.K., he didn't "shun" college, he dropped out because neither he nor his parents could afford it. He actually got a job and
earned the money to go back to school (imagine that). A college education was not "required" for him to work at the job that he did (Engineer at HP).
The fact of the matter is that his greatest achievements happened before he ever had a degree. An education at a university was not "required" in order for him do accomplish what he did.
Quote:O.K., he didn't "shun" college, he dropped out because neither he nor his parents could afford it. He actually got a job and earned the money to go back to school (imagine that). A college education was not "required" for him to work at the job that he did (Engineer at HP).
The fact of the matter is that his greatest achievements happened before he ever had a degree. An education at a university was not "required" in order for him do accomplish what he did.
Your brought up Wozniak, not me. But you chose the wrong guy. Have you even read iWoz?
He absolutely does credit his early college experience as part of his success.
Quote:Again, if you wouldn't have deleted out the part where I discussed this, we'd actually be in agreement. Instead, you deleted out where I pointed to the fact that some entrepreneurs do go far without a formal education in order to attack me.
It's a shame you did that...
Anything to promote anti-intellectualism.
Also Einstein definitely had a formal education.
Quote:So you took classes that you already knew all the material on? Wow, that was never the case for me... There were some courses that I knew some material from HS at the 100 or 200 level. But even those courses had new material that I had never read, leaned, or been introduced to...
As for your second point... Learning a science is all about parroting from textbooks. How else can you learn it? That makes no sense to me.
The science is settled, right?
Hillary.. Treadmill.. Thighs.. Friction.. Heat.. Global Warming..
It's real..
Quote:So you took classes that you already knew all the material on? Wow, that was never the case for me... There were some courses that I knew some material from HS at the 100 or 200 level. But even those courses had new material that I had never read, leaned, or been introduced to...
As for your second point... Learning a science is all about parroting from textbooks. How else can you learn it? That makes no sense to me.
Got it. Education for you is the textbook. That's where it begins and ends.
Just drop the argument and I will too. We don't speak the same language, obviously.
Quote:Got it. Education for you is the textbook. That's where it begins and ends.
Just drop the argument and I will too. We don't speak the same language, obviously.
Lol...
The fundamentals must be learned before one can begin to explore complex issued that require creativity.
Or...
You can learn about the flat earth and Sandy hook and other nonsense from youtube and other alt-news websites.
I'll take a university education over that malarkey any day.
But, hey that's just me.