Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(12-14-2023, 08:17 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-13-2023, 10:28 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Doesn't matter how much talent at WR the incoming draft class has, you still have to remember who the GM is.

Baalke can't draft WRs to save his life. Dude has been god awful at drafting WRs over his history.

I also don't see a rookie WR coming in here and duplicating what Ridley has done so far. Through 13 games, Ridley has 55 catches, 742 yards and 5 TD. Pretty sure he also leads the league in drawing DPI calls as well.

Do we really expect a rookie to come in and go for at least 65+ catches, nearly 1k or so yards and say 6 or 7 TDs? Sounds like we're setting up for expectation failure imo.

Rashee Rice essentially has the numbers right now.

And this upcoming draft class is very good. Definitely better than the rookie class this year.

I don’t know what’s the right move here and a lot will depend on the last 4 (hopefully more) games the Jags have left.

Ridley just isn’t consistent enough and is still making rookie/week 1 mistakes. With Trevor, I do think a rookie can do what Ridley is doing. They also would have a much lower cap figure.

I hope Ridley turns it on here in the last month because the Jags need him to be great.

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(12-14-2023, 12:11 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Exactly. Plug and play sounds a lot easier on paper, but in practice? It's not. I also think the obvious issues to our problems are literally front and center and staring right at us down the middle, on both sides of the football. 

Fix those issues up front and the odds of this offense flourishing further with Lawrence's abilities goes through the roof. Funny enough, all of those big names listed above? None of them have ever won the big game. 

You're also forking over draft picks, probably more than a 2nd RD pick, in addition to inheriting a big salary cap figure or potential contract extension that needs to be resolved.

So now because those big name WRs haven’t won the big game they’re bad? You wouldn’t take Jefferson or Lamb or Chase on this team? Is it McLaurins fault he’s played with bums his whole life?

Can’t blame team failures on a single player.

No. I am saying that this team is not one, superstar receiver away from winning the Superbowl. And, in the grand scheme of things, it may actually be a detriment to one teams success Vs. building it properly which starts with the foundation. 

For starters, this defensive and offensive front needs a ton of work. It's weak in the middle, lacks push, lacks toughness, lacks consistency. I think Lawrence is good enough now with a lack luster line with the current WR group and TE group and that's why I am not overly concerned with getting any of those players above, plus, more than likely paying more than what you would pay for Ridley per year plus giving up more valuable picks over just a late 2nd RD choice. 

I just think patience is key here. We're fixing to hit year four now on Lawrence's rookie deal. We've already [BLEEP] up an early opportunity to build around that. We should have spent more cap space and draft capital towards giving him better protection up front and bolstering our defensive front in my opinion. You go out and get the WR1, TE1 and RB1 after you've established a solid foundation.

He probably should have sent someone else in the store for him.

(12-14-2023, 08:17 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-13-2023, 10:28 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Doesn't matter how much talent at WR the incoming draft class has, you still have to remember who the GM is.

Baalke can't draft WRs to save his life. Dude has been god awful at drafting WRs over his history.

I also don't see a rookie WR coming in here and duplicating what Ridley has done so far. Through 13 games, Ridley has 55 catches, 742 yards and 5 TD. Pretty sure he also leads the league in drawing DPI calls as well.

Do we really expect a rookie to come in and go for at least 65+ catches, nearly 1k or so yards and say 6 or 7 TDs? Sounds like we're setting up for expectation failure imo.

Rashee Rice essentially has the numbers right now.

And this upcoming draft class is very good. Definitely better than the rookie class this year.

I don’t know what’s the right move here and a lot will depend on the last 4 (hopefully more) games the Jags have left.

Ridley just isn’t consistent enough and is still making rookie/week 1 mistakes. With Trevor, I do think a rookie can do what Ridley is doing. They also would have a much lower cap figure.

I hope Ridley turns it on here in the last month because the Jags need him to be great.

I was curious to see what the rookie WRs have done this year stat wise so I decided to look it up. Going to list them in the order they were drafted and by round.

1st round
Jaxon Smith-Njigba - 49 catches, 493 yards, 2 TD
Quentin Johnston - 29, 333, 1
Zay Flowers - 64, 673, 3
Jordan Addison - 56, 713, 7

2nd round
Jonathan Mingo - 36, 377, 0
Jayden Reed - 48, 540, 5
Rashee Rice - 59, 663, 6
Marvin Mims - 18, 298, 1

3rd round
Tank Dell - 47, 709, 7
Jalin Hyatt - 19, 343, 0
Cedric Tillman - 11, 108, 0
Josh Downs - 54, 612, 2
Michael Wilson - 28, 435, 2
Tre Tucker - 8, 161, 0

4th round
Derius Davis - 12, 44, 0
Charlie Jones - 16, 197, 1
Tyler Scott - 11, 92, 0

5th round
Justin Shorter - 0, 0, 0
Dontayvion Wicks - 25, 394, 1
Puka Nacua - 82, 1113, 4

6th round
Parker Washington - 8, 88, 2
Kayshon Boutte - 2, 19, 0
Trey Palmer - 28, 244, 2
A.T. Perry - 5, 119, 1
Elijah Higgins - 4, 49, 0
Xavier Hutchinson - 4, 58, 0
Andrei Iosivas - 5, 39, 2
Demario Douglas - 36, 410, 0

7th round
Antoine Green - 0, 0, 0
Colton Dowell - 0, 0, 0
Jalen Brooks - 5, 63, 0
Ronnie Bell - 4, 51, 1
Grant DuBose - 0, 0, 0

(12-14-2023, 12:11 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I'm old enough to remember going many years without a receiver worth mentioning.
We had to be content championing players like Cecil Shorts, Mike Thomas, and Mike Sims-Walker - with literally nobody behind them on the depth chart.

So - I don't subscribe to the idea that you can easily replace 970 yards and 7 TDs with a rookie second rounder.
You've probably got a one in four chance of hitting on that pick and their rookie season will likely still come up short of that.

So the question is:
Is his head right?
Can he be reeled in enough to string together some consistent route precision?
Can he do enough to make them confident in that over the next 4 -6 weeks?

If so, then you have to take advantage of his not-so-world-class return to football and try to get him on the cheap to a 3 year deal with a 2 year out clause. There may not be a ton of competition to sign a guy with his 2023 roller coaster return.

If not, move on.

(12-14-2023, 06:57 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2023, 08:17 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Rashee Rice essentially has the numbers right now.

And this upcoming draft class is very good. Definitely better than the rookie class this year.

I don’t know what’s the right move here and a lot will depend on the last 4 (hopefully more) games the Jags have left.

Ridley just isn’t consistent enough and is still making rookie/week 1 mistakes. With Trevor, I do think a rookie can do what Ridley is doing. They also would have a much lower cap figure.

I hope Ridley turns it on here in the last month because the Jags need him to be great.

I was curious to see what the rookie WRs have done this year stat wise so I decided to look it up. Going to list them in the order they were drafted and by round.

1st round
Jaxon Smith-Njigba - 49 catches, 493 yards, 2 TD
Quentin Johnston - 29, 333, 1
Zay Flowers - 64, 673, 3
Jordan Addison - 56, 713, 7

2nd round
Jonathan Mingo - 36, 377, 0
Jayden Reed - 48, 540, 5
Rashee Rice - 59, 663, 6
Marvin Mims - 18, 298, 1

3rd round
Tank Dell - 47, 709, 7
Jalin Hyatt - 19, 343, 0
Cedric Tillman - 11, 108, 0
Josh Downs - 54, 612, 2
Michael Wilson - 28, 435, 2
Tre Tucker - 8, 161, 0

4th round
Derius Davis - 12, 44, 0
Charlie Jones - 16, 197, 1
Tyler Scott - 11, 92, 0

5th round
Justin Shorter - 0, 0, 0
Dontayvion Wicks - 25, 394, 1
Puka Nacua - 82, 1113, 4

6th round
Parker Washington - 8, 88, 2
Kayshon Boutte - 2, 19, 0
Trey Palmer - 28, 244, 2
A.T. Perry - 5, 119, 1
Elijah Higgins - 4, 49, 0
Xavier Hutchinson - 4, 58, 0
Andrei Iosivas - 5, 39, 2
Demario Douglas - 36, 410, 0

7th round
Antoine Green - 0, 0, 0
Colton Dowell - 0, 0, 0
Jalen Brooks - 5, 63, 0
Ronnie Bell - 4, 51, 1
Grant DuBose - 0, 0, 0

Just wanted to put these posts together as they sort of support each other a bit.

It’s a tough call as it stands. I’d rather build the OL/DL and then fill out the WR from there. Whether that’s sign Ridley and draft heavy or it’s FA line replacements and draft a replacement WR I’d be happy with either.

Right now I’d rather pay Ridley and draft nothing but OL and IDL

(12-14-2023, 08:34 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]It’s a tough call as it stands. I’d rather build the OL/DL and then fill out the WR from there. Whether that’s sign Ridley and draft heavy or it’s FA line replacements and draft a replacement WR I’d be happy with either.

Right now I’d rather pay Ridley and draft nothing but OL and IDL

Brady, Mahomes, and likely Purdy will have won SBs without a bonafide WR. It’s nice to have a #1 but I don’t think it’s the path to the SB. 

We need pass rush and our interior O-Line to be able to run block. We need DEPENDABLE WR play. I’d say Kirk is that guy, but he’s just not tall or fast enough. 

I’d be nice if we could find a way to pay Mike Evans. He’d be great

(12-14-2023, 10:44 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2023, 08:34 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]It’s a tough call as it stands. I’d rather build the OL/DL and then fill out the WR from there. Whether that’s sign Ridley and draft heavy or it’s FA line replacements and draft a replacement WR I’d be happy with either.

Right now I’d rather pay Ridley and draft nothing but OL and IDL

Brady, Mahomes, and likely Purdy will have won SBs without a bonafide WR. It’s nice to have a #1 but I don’t think it’s the path to the SB. 

We need pass rush and our interior O-Line to be able to run block. We need DEPENDABLE WR play. I’d say Kirk is that guy, but he’s just not tall or fast enough. 

I’d be nice if we could find a way to pay Mike Evans. He’d be great

Aiyuk and Deebo are both #1s.

Aiyuk is incredible.

(12-14-2023, 10:44 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2023, 08:34 PM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]It’s a tough call as it stands. I’d rather build the OL/DL and then fill out the WR from there. Whether that’s sign Ridley and draft heavy or it’s FA line replacements and draft a replacement WR I’d be happy with either.

Right now I’d rather pay Ridley and draft nothing but OL and IDL

Brady, Mahomes, and likely Purdy will have won SBs without a bonafide WR. It’s nice to have a #1 but I don’t think it’s the path to the SB. 

We need pass rush and our interior O-Line to be able to run block. We need DEPENDABLE WR play. I’d say Kirk is that guy, but he’s just not tall or fast enough. 

I’d be nice if we could find a way to pay Mike Evans. He’d be great

People have voiced concerns about not paying Ridley because of his age, but Evans is 2 years older than Ridley is. Evans will be 31 before the next season starts.

Kirk is also plenty fast. He runs in the 4.4s. He's quick/shifty as well. This Offense badly misses him being on the field.

(12-14-2023, 10:45 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2023, 10:44 PM)MojoKing Wrote: [ -> ]Brady, Mahomes, and likely Purdy will have won SBs without a bonafide WR. It’s nice to have a #1 but I don’t think it’s the path to the SB. 

We need pass rush and our interior O-Line to be able to run block. We need DEPENDABLE WR play. I’d say Kirk is that guy, but he’s just not tall or fast enough. 

I’d be nice if we could find a way to pay Mike Evans. He’d be great

Aiyuk and Deebo are both #1s.

Aiyuk is incredible.

They also have an incredible running game, Kittle and a strong offensive line.

I think we need to focus on building up our offensive line to truly get a better sense of what we have.

We had 1100 in Kirk, 800 in Zay, 700 in Engram and 500 in Marvin last year. Give or take.

This year it's been 700 in Calvin, 700 in Engram, 700 in Kirk and 200 in Zay give or take. That's with injuries now in that group, a worse line, a weaker running game against a much more difficult strength of schedule.

With four games left, it was possible we could have had three 1,000 yard receivers on this team before the injuries happened.

I don't know. I just think we're not focusing on the bigger problem at hand in my opinion.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

(12-14-2023, 11:04 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2023, 10:45 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Aiyuk and Deebo are both #1s.

Aiyuk is incredible.

They also have an incredible running game, Kittle and a strong offensive line.

I think we need to focus on building up our offensive line to truly get a better sense of what we have.

We had 1100 in Kirk, 800 in Zay, 700 in Engram and 500 in Marvin last year. Give or take.

This year it's been 700 in Calvin, 700 in Engram, 700 in Kirk and 200 in Zay give or take. That's with injuries now in that group, a worse line, a weaker running game against a much more difficult strength of schedule.

With four games left, it was possible we could have had three 1,000 yard receivers on this team before the injuries happened.

I don't know. I just think we're not focusing on the bigger problem at hand in my opinion.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter how great your skill positions are if you're garbage in the trenches. Football will always be won, or loss due to the trenches.

Focus on the OL and DL and the rest will usually take care of its self in most cases.

(12-14-2023, 11:10 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2023, 11:04 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]They also have an incredible running game, Kittle and a strong offensive line.

I think we need to focus on building up our offensive line to truly get a better sense of what we have.

We had 1100 in Kirk, 800 in Zay, 700 in Engram and 500 in Marvin last year. Give or take.

This year it's been 700 in Calvin, 700 in Engram, 700 in Kirk and 200 in Zay give or take. That's with injuries now in that group, a worse line, a weaker running game against a much more difficult strength of schedule.

With four games left, it was possible we could have had three 1,000 yard receivers on this team before the injuries happened.

I don't know. I just think we're not focusing on the bigger problem at hand in my opinion.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter how great your skill positions are if you're garbage in the trenches. Football will always be won, or loss due to the trenches.

Focus on the OL and DL and the rest will usually take care of its self in most cases.

I think we all agree that they need to build the trenches and more specifically the interior of both lines.

So would you like to give up valuable resources to sign Ridley? 18 million a year and a 2nd rounder? 

That’s my only hold up here. I think Ridley is pretty good but giving up money AND a draft pick is what’s holding me back. Another player would only cost the Jags one or the other.

(12-15-2023, 08:33 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2023, 11:10 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter how great your skill positions are if you're garbage in the trenches. Football will always be won, or loss due to the trenches.

Focus on the OL and DL and the rest will usually take care of its self in most cases.

I think we all agree that they need to build the trenches and more specifically the interior of both lines.

So would you like to give up valuable resources to sign Ridley? 18 million a year and a 2nd rounder? 

That’s my only hold up here. I think Ridley is pretty good but giving up money AND a draft pick is what’s holding me back. Another player would only cost the Jags one or the other.

Have we ever officially determined when the cut-off for the 2nd/3rd escalator is? I know it said "in-season" extension for the 2nd. Does that mean up until the league year ends? Or is it up until the SB and then between SB and FA is considered after the season and would be a 3rd?

(12-15-2023, 08:33 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-14-2023, 11:10 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]At the end of the day, it really doesn't matter how great your skill positions are if you're garbage in the trenches. Football will always be won, or loss due to the trenches.

Focus on the OL and DL and the rest will usually take care of its self in most cases.

I think we all agree that they need to build the trenches and more specifically the interior of both lines.

So would you like to give up valuable resources to sign Ridley? 18 million a year and a 2nd rounder? 

That’s my only hold up here. I think Ridley is pretty good but giving up money AND a draft pick is what’s holding me back. Another player would only cost the Jags one or the other.

This is my issue.  And it's a big one if we want to sign Allen and Lawrence.

(12-15-2023, 08:42 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2023, 08:33 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]I think we all agree that they need to build the trenches and more specifically the interior of both lines.

So would you like to give up valuable resources to sign Ridley? 18 million a year and a 2nd rounder? 

That’s my only hold up here. I think Ridley is pretty good but giving up money AND a draft pick is what’s holding me back. Another player would only cost the Jags one or the other.

Have we ever officially determined when the cut-off for the 2nd/3rd escalator is? I know it said "in-season" extension for the 2nd. Does that mean up until the league year ends? Or is it up until the SB and then between SB and FA is considered after the season and would be a 3rd?

Honestly, not too sure.

I thought it was just if he signed an extension in Jacksonville.

(12-15-2023, 10:04 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2023, 08:42 AM)imtheblkranger Wrote: [ -> ]Have we ever officially determined when the cut-off for the 2nd/3rd escalator is? I know it said "in-season" extension for the 2nd. Does that mean up until the league year ends? Or is it up until the SB and then between SB and FA is considered after the season and would be a 3rd?

Honestly, not too sure.

I thought it was just if he signed an extension in Jacksonville.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville...ley-25121/

Quote:

• 5th-year option (exercised, guarantee likely to void per his 2/22 suspension for gambling)
  
• Trade Conditions
  4th Round Pick conveys to a 3rd with:
  60% snaps OR
  75 receptions OR
  1,000 receiving yards
  
• Pick conveys to a 2nd rounder if an in-season extension is signed
  

[/url]

[url=<iframe]
I can't imagine the term "in-season" extension is accidental.  It sounds like if he is allowed to hit free agency, but re-signs here, the 2nd rounder would be off the table.  I'm leaning strongly toward if we sign him after the season ends, it's only a 3rd rounder.  I'm assuming he's probably already hit the 60% snap requirement even if he doesn't get to 75 receptions and 1k yards.  I'd consider re-signing him at a reasonable salary.  The 3rd rounder is a sunk cost at this point.  It's the falcons already whether we re-sign him or not.

(12-15-2023, 11:19 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2023, 10:04 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, not too sure.

I thought it was just if he signed an extension in Jacksonville.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville...ley-25121/

Quote:

• 5th-year option (exercised, guarantee likely to void per his 2/22 suspension for gambling)
  
• Trade Conditions
  4th Round Pick conveys to a 3rd with:
  60% snaps OR
  75 receptions OR
  1,000 receiving yards
  
• Pick conveys to a 2nd rounder if an in-season extension is signed
  

[/url]

[url=<iframe]
I can't imagine the term "in-season" extension is accidental.  It sounds like if he is allowed to hit free agency, but re-signs here, the 2nd rounder would be off the table.  I'm leaning strongly toward if we sign him after the season ends, it's only a 3rd rounder.  I'm assuming he's probably already hit the 60% snap requirement even if he doesn't get to 75 receptions and 1k yards.  I'd consider re-signing him at a reasonable salary.  The 3rd rounder is a sunk cost at this point.  It's the falcons already whether we re-sign him or not.

Well if this is the case, and it would just be a 3rd rounder, I would be more open to retaining him.

Still unsure but I could stomach a 3rd rounder plus the contract. 2nd rounder? Much more difficult for me.

(12-15-2023, 11:29 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2023, 11:19 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/jacksonville...ley-25121/


[url=<iframe][/url]
I can't imagine the term "in-season" extension is accidental.  It sounds like if he is allowed to hit free agency, but re-signs here, the 2nd rounder would be off the table.  I'm leaning strongly toward if we sign him after the season ends, it's only a 3rd rounder.  I'm assuming he's probably already hit the 60% snap requirement even if he doesn't get to 75 receptions and 1k yards.  I'd consider re-signing him at a reasonable salary.  The 3rd rounder is a sunk cost at this point.  It's the falcons already whether we re-sign him or not.

Well if this is the case, and it would just be a 3rd rounder, I would be more open to retaining him.

Still unsure but I could stomach a 3rd rounder plus the contract. 2nd rounder? Much more difficult for me.

I think he's proving to the league this year that he's a #2 receiver. Maybe he can be had on a team-friendly deal as a result. Forget $18M/year. More like $12M that could be reaches with incentives -- one being the number of drops.

(12-15-2023, 12:47 PM)TheDogCatcher Wrote: [ -> ]

(12-15-2023, 11:29 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Well if this is the case, and it would just be a 3rd rounder, I would be more open to retaining him.

Still unsure but I could stomach a 3rd rounder plus the contract. 2nd rounder? Much more difficult for me.

I think he's proving to the league this year that he's a #2 receiver. Maybe he can be had on a team-friendly deal as a result. Forget $18M/year. More like $12M that could be reaches with incentives -- one being the number of drops.

There is no way Ridley signs for less than Kirk imo.

It's all speculative regarding that $18M+ mark per year for Ridley.

It's also funny that we're more concerned with a 2nd RD pick as an unknown commodity with a current front office that's had a ho-hum history so far with finding immediate impact players in said round.

I don't get it. As far as Ridley wanting more than Kirk? Again, speculative. He was 26 years old when he signed his deal, which is only 16th by the way in terms of highest paid receivers on average based on this year. Also, to be fair to Ridley, he's the 4th highest paid receiver at the moment on this team and being asked to do more and be more than guys like Kirk, Jones and Agnew who are all ahead of him.

Even if Ridley came in and said, "Give me $18.5M or $19M", I think you have to consider it. This would literally put him above or around guys like Diontae Johnson, Brandin Cooks, Chris Godwin, Mike Williams & Amari Cooper. Which, at this age? It's pretty fair value. All things considered.

Would still be interested to see who all you guys have on your radar in this draft that would do better as an unknown commodity in the exact same position as Ridley as well as who would you go out and invest in via the market, because, Higgins is going to cost you more than that per year, without ever being a true #1 receiver as well, and, again, we're not a superstar WR away from winning it all folks. It's cute to dream. It's not the reality though until the line play improves.

You guys want to inherit Adams $28M cap hit? With probably giving up more than a 2nd round pick? Knock yourself out. What about Kupp? If the Rams are trying to fire sale a guy or two? Would you be comfortable eating his $26.7M cap hit for multiple picks? Given his durability concerns? Diggs with his $24M hit and diva tendencies? Who has fallen short with Buffalo since he's been there?

I don't know. Maybe I am overthinking it.