(01-09-2024, 03:24 PM)ChrisJagBoy Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2024, 02:29 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]This is a fair distinction. Just because Lawrence possibly isn't a "generational talent" doesn't mean he can't be a top 10 QB in his career or win a Super Bowl. He needs to be more consistent and the team has to realize he's not going to be able to do it all on his own and adjust their plan.
Be careful, I got ragged on for over a year for essentially saying that same thing.
Meh, I'm not gonna go out of my way to piss people of but if people have an issue with my opinion so be it. I never bought into the generational talent stuff because the word gets thrown around all the time but I believe Lawrence has talent and I feel like he showed it year 2 from week 9 on when he was second to only Mahomes in TDs and INTs, and for the 4 weeks before the injury when he had 12 TDs to 1 INT (which was the missed holding call).
The thing is now he needs to do that more consistently.
(01-09-2024, 12:06 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ] (01-07-2024, 01:53 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]A little Dramatic? You paint him as the godfather. The team has him locked up for at least another couple of years so right now be has 0 leverage. The only thing be could do is hold out or retire if he chooses not to suit up.
Did Ramsey have leverage when he forced his way out?
If a team is willing to offer two first rounders for Trevor Lawrence that one is near the top of the draft today, I am taking it. I am not as sold on Lawrence as most of you. Unpopular opinion but after 3 years I should not continue having the same question marks.
(01-09-2024, 09:44 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2024, 07:39 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/ihartitz/status/1744...915L-t18Xg
He has had his fair share of misses but my lord. Also saw he led the league in drops that resulted in an interception.
Did it happen to say how many drops resulting in INTs He had?
Every Qb in the league has drops. I see it weekly on nfl red zone. We could be more unfortunate but most ints in the league happen that way.
(01-09-2024, 11:00 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2024, 09:44 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]Did it happen to say how many drops resulting in INTs He had?
https://twitter.com/Ihartitz/status/1744787653600358499
So you drop him down to one like the rest of the league, take away the one on the PI in the Texans game and he's at 11 ints on the year. You could take a few off for the routes but maybe those still get picked.
There's also the dropped TDs. I honestly don't see how he couldn't be at 30 total TDs and 10 INTs next year if the receivers do better on their part and Lawrence takes better care of the ball and advantage of his red zone opportunities. Both of those things seem do able.
(01-09-2024, 10:42 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2024, 12:06 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Did Ramsey have leverage when he forced his way out?
If a team is willing to offer two first rounders for Trevor Lawrence that one is near the top of the draft today, I am taking it. I am not as sold on Lawrence as most of you. Unpopular opinion but after 3 years I should not continue having the same question marks.
(01-09-2024, 09:44 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]Did it happen to say how many drops resulting in INTs He had?
Every Qb in the league has drops. I see it weekly on nfl red zone. We could be more unfortunate but most ints in the league happen that way.
I don't think I would do it for two first round picks. You know you need to use one of those on a QB, and you don't really know what you're getting. At least we know what we're getting with Trevor. Caleb is the #1, but he's not going to come to Jax. Drake Maye? Make it three first rounders and I might not be able to hold back.
(01-09-2024, 10:42 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2024, 12:06 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Did Ramsey have leverage when he forced his way out?
If a team is willing to offer two first rounders for Trevor Lawrence that one is near the top of the draft today, I am taking it. I am not as sold on Lawrence as most of you. Unpopular opinion but after 3 years I should not continue having the same question marks.
(01-09-2024, 09:44 PM)Protozoa Wrote: [ -> ]Did it happen to say how many drops resulting in INTs He had?
Every Qb in the league has drops. I see it weekly on nfl red zone. We could be more unfortunate but most ints in the league happen that way.
If most interceptions happen that way, then how come they account for 14% of Mahomes interceptions this year? and 21% for Lawrence?
Fact of the matter is that video is 2 minutes long. Ridley dropped so many TDs this season early on. No team has more EPA lost due to drops than the Jags. Not even the Chiefs!
Lawrence can certainly play better. No one is saying he is perfect. He needs to work on the fumbles.
But trading Lawrence for 2 1st rounders? Just so you can watch a rookie QB get pummeled behind this god awful Oline or watch more WRs drop the ball? You don't even realize how bad this team actually is because Lawrence masks so many deficiencies. They won 9 games this year. Almost anyone else and they win 4.
(01-09-2024, 12:54 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-09-2024, 12:06 PM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]Did Ramsey have leverage when he forced his way out?
No he didnt. It was highway robbery for Ramsey and we should have JJ on the team right now
You don't fully understand leverage then.
Surprised by some of the answers in this thread. Trevor Lawrence was playing excent football until the injuries hit and lost his best WR in Kirk. He had 17 game sequence from second half of last season to the first half 2023 where he was putting up top 5 numbers.
The reality is this roster has many deficiencies. Trevor was playing with a bottom tier OL and a bottom tier defense. No running game because the OL is terrible and no time to throw. The Jags don't have a number 1 WR either. The collapse sucked but the Jaguars have much bigger issues than Trevor. He's an excellent QB when healthy as the numbers show and the odds of getting better are very low.
(01-11-2024, 08:33 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]Surprised by some of the answers in this thread. Trevor Lawrence was playing excent football until the injuries hit and lost his best WR in Kirk. He had 17 game sequence from second half of last season to the first half 2023 where he was putting up top 5 numbers.
The reality is this roster has many deficiencies. Trevor was playing with a bottom tier OL and a bottom tier defense. No running game because the OL is terrible and no time to throw. The Jags don't have a number 1 WR either. The collapse sucked but the Jaguars have much bigger issues than Trevor. He's an excellent QB when healthy as the numbers show and the odds of getting better are very low.
I called this several weeks ago. This offense went in the pooper once Kirk went down.
(01-12-2024, 12:08 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ] (01-11-2024, 08:33 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]Surprised by some of the answers in this thread. Trevor Lawrence was playing excent football until the injuries hit and lost his best WR in Kirk. He had 17 game sequence from second half of last season to the first half 2023 where he was putting up top 5 numbers.
The reality is this roster has many deficiencies. Trevor was playing with a bottom tier OL and a bottom tier defense. No running game because the OL is terrible and no time to throw. The Jags don't have a number 1 WR either. The collapse sucked but the Jaguars have much bigger issues than Trevor. He's an excellent QB when healthy as the numbers show and the odds of getting better are very low.
I called this several weeks ago. This offense went in the pooper once Kirk went down.
It all started with that Bengals' game.
Kirk got hurt on our 1st Offensive play (which was a completed big play down field for 30 yards). Then Lawrence got his ankle stepped on a little bit later. McManus instantly missed a FG (the very next play) after Lawrence got hurt and everything has been in a free fall ever since.
McManus missed at least 5 of his next 6 FGs after that. The young WRs filling the spots of Kirk and Zay had too many route miscommunications and drops (Ridley right there with them). OL only continued to shuffle around and the Defense stopped getting lucky turnovers which greatly exposed their ability to not stop anything.
And of course Trevor only made some of that worse with his stupid [BLEEP] turnovers, mainly the dumb [BLEEP] fumbles. Part of those are due to this team just flat out asking so much of him, but he has to get those fumbles under control.
Better buy that stock while it’s temporary low because it’s going to rocket sky high, and you will regret it when Lawrence grows into a legendary QB if you didn’t.
So the poll answers are yes, no, and bust. My answer would be none of those. My answer would be "I don't know." It's a wishy-washy answer, but I think that's the correct answer.
(01-11-2024, 08:33 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]Surprised by some of the answers in this thread. Trevor Lawrence was playing excent football until the injuries hit and lost his best WR in Kirk. He had 17 game sequence from second half of last season to the first half 2023 where he was putting up top 5 numbers.
The reality is this roster has many deficiencies. Trevor was playing with a bottom tier OL and a bottom tier defense. No running game because the OL is terrible and no time to throw. The Jags don't have a number 1 WR either. The collapse sucked but the Jaguars have much bigger issues than Trevor. He's an excellent QB when healthy as the numbers show and the odds of getting better are very low.
Yeah, he had an excellent connection with Kirk, but that doesn't mean his play shouldve declined due to one player when he still had a solid recieving corps healthy. Look at what Stroud doing with lesser weapons than Lawrence on the field.....
(01-12-2024, 12:08 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ] (01-11-2024, 08:33 PM)ClemsonOrangeJaguar Wrote: [ -> ]Surprised by some of the answers in this thread. Trevor Lawrence was playing excent football until the injuries hit and lost his best WR in Kirk. He had 17 game sequence from second half of last season to the first half 2023 where he was putting up top 5 numbers.
The reality is this roster has many deficiencies. Trevor was playing with a bottom tier OL and a bottom tier defense. No running game because the OL is terrible and no time to throw. The Jags don't have a number 1 WR either. The collapse sucked but the Jaguars have much bigger issues than Trevor. He's an excellent QB when healthy as the numbers show and the odds of getting better are very low.
I called this several weeks ago. This offense went in the pooper once Kirk went down.
The crazy thing is that the run game went from bad to practically non-existent at the
same time.
5 of our last six games (starting with the Cincinnati game) had rushing team totals of:
71
58
75
37
82
The panthers games was the only 100 yd rushing game in the final 6 weeks
Travis Etienne had 12 games this season wherein he did not eclipse 60 yards rushing.
For a back of his talents - that is a heinous crime.
Circling back to thread topic :
My best guess is that after a lackluster season - Lawrence's agent may be inclined to wait a year on doing the mega deal so that it might be maximized.
It is also possible that they press forward with the current 3 year standard timeline for quarterbacks worth keeping.
If so - it gets a bit tricky settling on numbers after ending the season so poorly.
It will get done. Whether this year or the next has become the question.
(01-12-2024, 09:34 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (01-12-2024, 12:08 AM)RicoTx Wrote: [ -> ]I called this several weeks ago. This offense went in the pooper once Kirk went down.
The crazy thing is that the run game went from bad to practically non-existent at the same time.
5 of our last six games (starting with the Cincinnati game) had rushing team totals of:
71
58
75
37
82
The panthers games was the only 100 yd rushing game in the final 6 weeks
Travis Etienne had 12 games this season wherein he did not eclipse 60 yards rushing.
For a back of his talents - that is a heinous crime.
Circling back to thread topic :
My best guess is that after a lackluster season - Lawrence's agent may be inclined to wait a year on doing the mega deal so that it might be maximized.
It is also possible that they press forward with the current 3 year standard timeline for quarterbacks worth keeping.
If so - it gets a bit tricky settling on numbers after ending the season so poorly.
It will get done. Whether this year or the next has become the question.
Lawrence also had at least two games I believe where he lead the team in rushing yards. I know the Saints game was his for sure. There was one other game I want to say as well.
I think his deal gets done during the 2025 off season. It's to his advantage in my opinion. Baalke needs to get this offensive line addressed and addressed fast.
If they part ways with Robinson and Scherff, that's fine, BUT, you better make damn sure you have your free agency targets down and that you cannot be outbid.
I don't think, nor, should we trust Baalke to solve all of our offensive line and defensive line woes via the draft. He has to get it done in March in my opinion.
(01-12-2024, 10:01 AM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (01-12-2024, 09:34 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The crazy thing is that the run game went from bad to practically non-existent at the same time.
5 of our last six games (starting with the Cincinnati game) had rushing team totals of:
71
58
75
37
82
The panthers games was the only 100 yd rushing game in the final 6 weeks
Travis Etienne had 12 games this season wherein he did not eclipse 60 yards rushing.
For a back of his talents - that is a heinous crime.
Circling back to thread topic :
My best guess is that after a lackluster season - Lawrence's agent may be inclined to wait a year on doing the mega deal so that it might be maximized.
It is also possible that they press forward with the current 3 year standard timeline for quarterbacks worth keeping.
If so - it gets a bit tricky settling on numbers after ending the season so poorly.
It will get done. Whether this year or the next has become the question.
Lawrence also had at least two games I believe where he lead the team in rushing yards. I know the Saints game was his for sure. There was one other game I want to say as well.
I think his deal gets done during the 2025 off season. It's to his advantage in my opinion. Baalke needs to get this offensive line addressed and addressed fast.
If they part ways with Robinson and Scherff, that's fine, BUT, you better make damn sure you have your free agency targets down and that you cannot be outbid.
I don't think, nor, should we trust Baalke to solve all of our offensive line and defensive line woes via the draft. He has to get it done in March in my opinion.
The team absolutely must get
at least one piece in free agency for that line so they are not drafting multiple linemen and expecting them to start right away. That rarely works out.
If they sign the best possible FA center and work a deal to bring in Cleveland again (or a similar/better FA guard) - then they have some latitude on draft week.
This is the big X factor in the OL fix for me:
ZBS vs Power traits
In the same way that this OL handcuffed Press Taylor and the offense as a whole, the OL was in turn handcuffed by the traits Pederson and Baalke agreed to target for their OL acquisitions.
We heard Pederson, Baalke, and Rauscher all talk about athletic guys that can get second level over and over again in the offseason -- only to see those athletic guys get beat down with a fresh batch of whoop [BLEEP] every single week when the games began.
I'm over it with the athletic traits, and I'm over it with running ZBS 85% of the time.
Get some damn maulers in there who are just athletic enough to still run ZBS - but strong enough to block power gap runs.
It is tragic to watch a franchise steeped in a rich history of potent rushing attacks fall into this current mamby-pamby bull [BLEEP] with guys up front getting rag dolled around on every snap.
And this Rauscher guy better get it together too. If I ever have to see our LG and C literally playing a game of [BLEEP] patty-cakes while someone like Chris Jones is blowing by them unabated to the QB I might quit going to games.
Whomever they sign or draft - that [BLEEP] needs to get coached the hell out of them.
EDIT: I reposted this in the OL 2023 thread to keep the thread here on track