Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

https://www.youtube.com/live/Oy9TlUCoN24...3DoAi625PR

---

Am I the only one that was crying watching Garner Minshew beat the freaking Browns??
He's certainly grown from his days here.
Life in the rearview mirror eh?

If Bigsby was faster, we win.

(09-30-2024, 02:03 PM)JagFanatic24 Wrote: [ -> ]If Bigsby was faster, we win.

This is fair. I thought the same thing last night when Henry's big [BLEEP] took off on the Bills right away and scored first. Just needed him a little bit faster.

I still shake my head at the staff running him twice in a row when he was gassed though. Really should have used a timeout there when it was 1st and goal.

Get our house in order. Get the offense gelling and clicking with the next two, three plays that would be ideal for everybody to be in the know and ready for, etc.

(09-30-2024, 01:59 PM)Mowerguy Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only one that was crying watching Garner Minshew beat the freaking Browns??
He's certainly grown from his days here.
Life in the rearview mirror eh?

Shew is currently a better QB than lawrence.

(09-30-2024, 02:32 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2024, 01:59 PM)Mowerguy Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only one that was crying watching Garner Minshew beat the freaking Browns??
He's certainly grown from his days here.
Life in the rearview mirror eh?

Shew is currently a better QB than lawrence.

Yet another dumb take...

(09-30-2024, 03:26 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2024, 02:32 PM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]Shew is currently a better QB than lawrence.

Yet another dumb take...

Lawrence: 53% complete, 6 yards/attempt, 11 yards/completion, 38% success rate
Minshew: 71% complete, 7 yards/attempt, 10 yards/completion, 45% success rate.

Minshew had a noticably better month than Lawrence.

(09-30-2024, 03:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2024, 03:26 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Yet another dumb take...

Lawrence: 53% complete, 6 yards/attempt, 11 yards/completion, 38% success rate
Minshew: 71% complete, 7 yards/attempt, 10 yards/completion, 41% success rate.

Minshew had a noticably better month than Lawrence.

What you are getting from Minshew this month is the peak of his abilities.  Minshew is a below average QB.

What we are seeing from Lawrence is the absolute worst of what he's capable of...  (At least, that's unless he's completely broken, and won't ever return to the 2022 version of himself)

Minshew is playing better football right now than Lawrence. Not sure why that's hard to accept. The most concerning part should be that Minshew just signed with the Raiders this off season and is still learning that system, that roster, etc.

Lawrence has had the same exact core of coaches between Pederson, Taylor and McCoy now along with the same RB for three years, a WR in Kirk and Engram at TE (When healthy),

There's no excuses for what's happening right now. Other than mental weakness. We'll see what happens. You win, you lose. That's about it really.

Lol at people still acting like Lawrence is a special talent.

(09-30-2024, 04:09 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Minshew is playing better football right now than Lawrence. Not sure why that's hard to accept. The most concerning part should be that Minshew just signed with the Raiders this off season and is still learning that system, that roster, etc.

Lawrence has had the same exact core of coaches between Pederson, Taylor and McCoy now along with the same RB for three years, a WR in Kirk and Engram at TE (When healthy),

There's no excuses for what's happening right now. Other than mental weakness. We'll see what happens. You win, you lose. That's about it really.

I'm not denying this.  I'm just trying to point out that the two QBs have vastly different levels of potential.    Yeah, Lawrence looks broken right now.  But if he gets back on track and starts trusting his O-Line more, he's by far and away a much better QB.  Not that he's playing like that right now.

(09-30-2024, 04:20 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2024, 04:09 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Minshew is playing better football right now than Lawrence. Not sure why that's hard to accept. The most concerning part should be that Minshew just signed with the Raiders this off season and is still learning that system, that roster, etc.

Lawrence has had the same exact core of coaches between Pederson, Taylor and McCoy now along with the same RB for three years, a WR in Kirk and Engram at TE (When healthy),

There's no excuses for what's happening right now. Other than mental weakness. We'll see what happens. You win, you lose. That's about it really.

I'm not denying this.  I'm just trying to point out that the two QBs have vastly different levels of potential.    Yeah, Lawrence looks broken right now.  But if he gets back on track and starts trusting his O-Line more, he's by far and away a much better QB.  Not that he's playing like that right now.

https://youtube.com/shorts/5E76R2Y13Vw?s...bEP1ygUfPW

(09-30-2024, 03:53 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2024, 03:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]Lawrence: 53% complete, 6 yards/attempt, 11 yards/completion, 38% success rate
Minshew: 71% complete, 7 yards/attempt, 10 yards/completion, 41% success rate.

Minshew had a noticably better month than Lawrence.

What you are getting from Minshew this month is the peak of his abilities.  Minshew is a below average QB.

What we are seeing from Lawrence is the absolute worst of what he's capable of...  (At least, that's unless he's completely broken, and won't ever return to the 2022 version of himself)

Stats say otherwise.
Minshew's performance in 2024 is not that much better than what he did in Jax in 2019 and 2020.
His time here may have been his peak, or maybe his peak is yet to come.

(09-30-2024, 04:26 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2024, 04:20 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not denying this.  I'm just trying to point out that the two QBs have vastly different levels of potential.    Yeah, Lawrence looks broken right now.  But if he gets back on track and starts trusting his O-Line more, he's by far and away a much better QB.  Not that he's playing like that right now.

https://youtube.com/shorts/5E76R2Y13Vw?s...bEP1ygUfPW

Somebody send that video to Trevor, ASAP!!!

---

(09-30-2024, 04:32 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2024, 03:53 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]What you are getting from Minshew this month is the peak of his abilities.  Minshew is a below average QB.

What we are seeing from Lawrence is the absolute worst of what he's capable of...  (At least, that's unless he's completely broken, and won't ever return to the 2022 version of himself)

Stats say otherwise.
Minshew's performance in 2024 is not that much better than what he did in Jax in 2019 and 2020.
His time here may have been his peak, or his peak is yet to come.

Yeah, maybe this isn't peak Minshew.  But I don't think he has the ability to be any better than what we currently are seeing from him.  I just think there's way more talent and ability with Lawrence.  It's just that Lawrence is playing like dog water right now.

(09-30-2024, 03:48 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2024, 03:26 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Yet another dumb take...

Lawrence: 53% complete, 6 yards/attempt, 11 yards/completion, 38% success rate
Minshew: 71% complete, 7 yards/attempt, 10 yards/completion, 45% success rate.

Minshew had a noticably better month than Lawrence.

Difficult to argue that take. You are what you put on film and so far this year, Minshew’s been a better player.

(09-30-2024, 04:12 PM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]Lol at people still acting like Lawrence is a special talent.

I wouldn't put too much on our fans knowing anything about the QB position.

We dont have a good history of having great QBs after all. So it's always hilarious to see fans year after year hyping below average QBs. It's cute.

(09-30-2024, 12:32 AM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2024, 12:04 AM)OG-JAGFAN Wrote: [ -> ]Childish insults are the tools of the Feeblemind.

Just to shut you up with facts and not opinon.  David Garrard had a career rating of 85 vs Lawrence 84. David Garrard also was much more deadly with his legs.  I would 100% take David Garrard vs Trevor Lawrence both in their prime.

Bortles is close with Lawrence. Borltes career rating was 80 vs Lawrence 84 but again I would take a prime Bortles over a Prime Lawrence.   Even in 2022 Lawrence had moments of wild inconsistency.  Bortles had guts and used his legs wisely at times. He had his bad years but look who was his head coach, and look at his supporting staff.  For gods sake when Bortles was playing we would get blown out by 20 points and then have an Ice Cream party in the locker room.


Our current starting QB is no doubt one of the worst and possibly the worst in the league. Don't take my word on it.  Watch what the experts say like ex PLayers, hall of fame coaches, and others who do all the sports radio shows. There is a consensus. across the NFL that Lawrence isn't good.  I know I maybe being obtuse, but I think I am going to believe the Crews of NFL network and Espn (that consistent of said players and coaches I mentioned earlier) than the great genius SamasAranX over on the duval pride message board.

It's obvious you’re a blind fan/homer and I know nothing I can is going to convince you that Lawrence is a huge problem. Good luck with that, I choose to live in reality.

*feeble-minded

Reality is, he’s not the biggest problem on this team, and you contradict yourself in your own posts. 

Oh Garrard has a higher career rating! (of one point, off a much larger sample size by the way). So that’s gospel. But wait, Bortles has a lower career rating. So never mind, let’s not use that, I just still would “rather” have Bortles (suddenly an opinion not a fact). There’s statistics where Trevor is better than Garrard/ Bortles that I could throw out there.

Then you defend Bortles using the “look at his staff” but then aren’t given Trevor the same mulligan now when it’s clear he’s dealing with the same problem; a staff that has its head buried in the sand and won’t adjust this offense to what Trevor’s strengths are. There is also the urban year. Which other teams personnel have said really screwed up his career trajectory. 

He has no doubt regressed and I called him out today, and times past as well so I’m not a blind homer. I also never viewed him as an elite and think a more measured outlook was needed. Our difference of opinion lies in that I think Trevor can be, and most likely will be, a good starting QB in this league (most likely not with us). There’s only ONE, maybe two QBs in this league who truly transcend needing the right system and support in place to win consistently. Mahomes, possibly burrow. I can’t remember who said it, but often times it’s not just the QB you draft that matters, it’s where they go to as well. A prime example of this is Mayfield. Cleveland just churns QBs in and out. Mayfield wasn’t mahomes, got ran out, and is thriving in Tampa. The Jets. Did the same to Darnold. The Bears are doing it to Williams, and just did it to Fields. I mean, cmon man, you can’t tell me if Trevor was with Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay he wouldn’t be doing a lot better. If you do, I don’t think I can take your perspective as on of good faith. 

I legit am to the point where I think Jax is a QB shredder just like those franchises. We’re never going to draft a successful QB, not just because of evaluation, but because of our dysfunctional way of operating. Doesn’t matter how talented they are as a prospect. So in six years, God help us, we’ll be having this same conversation about the next poor sap we screwed the pooch on.

When your goal is to dunk on someone and show how smart you are, you can't start with grammar ignorance.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feebleminded

TL blows chunks.  Deadset below average.  The issues he had on day one as a rookie, he still has.  And now he's a $255 million albatross around Khan's neck.  You don't have to wear him, however.  You can chose to cut him lose emotionally.

(09-30-2024, 07:35 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2024, 12:32 AM)SamusAranX Wrote: [ -> ]*feeble-minded

Reality is, he’s not the biggest problem on this team, and you contradict yourself in your own posts. 

Oh Garrard has a higher career rating! (of one point, off a much larger sample size by the way). So that’s gospel. But wait, Bortles has a lower career rating. So never mind, let’s not use that, I just still would “rather” have Bortles (suddenly an opinion not a fact). There’s statistics where Trevor is better than Garrard/ Bortles that I could throw out there.

Then you defend Bortles using the “look at his staff” but then aren’t given Trevor the same mulligan now when it’s clear he’s dealing with the same problem; a staff that has its head buried in the sand and won’t adjust this offense to what Trevor’s strengths are. There is also the urban year. Which other teams personnel have said really screwed up his career trajectory. 

He has no doubt regressed and I called him out today, and times past as well so I’m not a blind homer. I also never viewed him as an elite and think a more measured outlook was needed. Our difference of opinion lies in that I think Trevor can be, and most likely will be, a good starting QB in this league (most likely not with us). There’s only ONE, maybe two QBs in this league who truly transcend needing the right system and support in place to win consistently. Mahomes, possibly burrow. I can’t remember who said it, but often times it’s not just the QB you draft that matters, it’s where they go to as well. A prime example of this is Mayfield. Cleveland just churns QBs in and out. Mayfield wasn’t mahomes, got ran out, and is thriving in Tampa. The Jets. Did the same to Darnold. The Bears are doing it to Williams, and just did it to Fields. I mean, cmon man, you can’t tell me if Trevor was with Andy Reid, Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay he wouldn’t be doing a lot better. If you do, I don’t think I can take your perspective as on of good faith. 

I legit am to the point where I think Jax is a QB shredder just like those franchises. We’re never going to draft a successful QB, not just because of evaluation, but because of our dysfunctional way of operating. Doesn’t matter how talented they are as a prospect. So in six years, God help us, we’ll be having this same conversation about the next poor sap we screwed the pooch on.

When your goal is to dunk on someone and show how smart you are, you can't start with grammar ignorance.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feebleminded

TL blows chunks.  Deadset below average.  The issues he had on day one as a rookie, he still has.  And now he's a $255 million albatross around Khan's neck.  You don't have to wear him, however.  You can chose to cut him lose emotionally.

The second sentence I bolded is grammatically incorrect.  What you wrote there is a sentence fragment and is frowned upon. 

Those in glass houses should not throw any stones.  

Besides, who cares about grammar?  We're all just talking football.  I agree that pejoratives and other logic fallacies should not be part of the discourse.  But this grammar enforcement or pedantic arguments are tiresome.  It drags down the discussion and results in these types of unhelpful back and forth drivel.

(And don't think I'm oblivious to the irony of pointing this out.  In fact, I recognize I'm perpetuating it.  I just wanted to call you out for your arrogance.  Just make your argument.  Call out the logic fallacies when you see them.  But this back and forth about grammar or minutia of detail hurts the overall discussion, on both sides of the debate)

(09-30-2024, 01:59 PM)Mowerguy Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only one that was crying watching Garner Minshew beat the freaking Browns??
He's certainly grown from his days here.
Life in the rearview mirror eh?

Minshew didn’t beat them. 14/24 for 140 yards. Even worse than Trevor’s meh game yesterday.

(09-30-2024, 07:51 PM)carp8dm Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-30-2024, 07:35 PM)OzJohnnie Wrote: [ -> ]When your goal is to dunk on someone and show how smart you are, you can't start with grammar ignorance.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feebleminded

TL blows chunks.  Deadset below average.  The issues he had on day one as a rookie, he still has.  And now he's a $255 million albatross around Khan's neck.  You don't have to wear him, however.  You can chose to cut him lose emotionally.

The second sentence I bolded is grammatically incorrect.  What you wrote there is a sentence fragment and is frowned upon. 

Those in glass houses should not throw any stones.  

Besides, who cares about grammar?  We're all just talking football.  I agree that pejoratives and other logic fallacies should not be part of the discourse.  But this grammar enforcement or pedantic arguments are tiresome.  It drags down the discussion and results in these types of unhelpful back and forth drivel.

(And don't think I'm oblivious to the irony of pointing this out.  In fact, I recognize I'm perpetuating it.  I just wanted to call you out for your arrogance.  Just make your argument.  Call out the logic fallacies when you see them.  But this back and forth about grammar or minutia of detail hurts the overall discussion, on both sides of the debate)

You're calling someone out on arrogance?  That's like Brutus complaining all the knives are too sharp.


The knots TL defenders must twist themselves in to in order to avoid admitting TL is deadset below average is one of the more humourous things going around in NFL forums.  I predict that the number of coaching careers that TL ends will be exceeded only by the number of die-hard TL supporter heads exploding as JAX struggles to win two games this year.  The team isn't a favourite in a single game the rest of the season and only get near even odds in two games, when they host Tennesee and Texas.  But there is a lot of water to flow under the bridge before those match-ups so who knows how far in the hole the Jags will be by the time those games roll around?