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Quote:I can't argue with you if you honestly believe, for one, that police are just allowed to shoot people. And two, that police are maliciously gunning down innocent people just because they've been given "free reign" like its a hunting tag or something.

Uh... police are allowed to shoot people. Is that not what we are discussing??? The fact that most officers aren't even indicted and put on trial is defacto free reign.


This cop that shot the Miami therapist is being protected by his captain and IS on paid leave.


Those are facts.

Quote:I feel like some are being willfully obtuse.

A SWAT team, while necessary for unique situations should not make up the entire police force. You have basically militarized the entire PD if you're equipping every officer with the weaponry of a soldier.

A black and white patrol-man should have a side arm and his vest. He should be community policing his fellow citizens, not occupying and engaging enemies.

It's a change in equipment and a change in the mind frame of the PD that must occur.

You realize police have the equipment they do now is because the equipment and mind set of the criminal has changed as well, right?


Would you feel better if the criminals, robbers, rapists, drug dealers have superior weapons and equipment than law enforcement? I hate to tell you, criminals do have a lot of the weapons police have. Also they get their hands on vests and other armor. So how then would an officer take them down? Ask politely? It was a while ago so I don't remember exactly what happened but wasn't there a couple guys in L.A. who robbed a bank or something and they walked away on foot with vests on and firing assault rifles?


I promise I'm not trying to single you out. lol.

Quote:You realize police have the equipment they do now is because the equipment and mind set of the criminal has changed as well, right?


Would you feel better if the criminals, robbers, rapists, drug dealers have superior weapons and equipment than law enforcement? I hate to tell you, criminals do have a lot of the weapons police have. Also they get their hands on vests and other armor. So how then would an officer take them down? Ask politely? It was a while ago so I don't remember exactly what happened but wasn't there a couple guys in L.A. who robbed a bank or something and they walked away on foot with vests on and firing assault rifles?


I promise I'm not trying to single you out. lol.

So you are taking the extreme outlier events and then training the entire PD to handle all interactions with the community in that way? Based on outlier events we need to arm our entire PD as a military force?


That's a terrible policy.


How many interactions do you think a metro black and white patrolman comes across where a standard glock side arm is being over powered?


As I said, the SWAT unit is designed to handle those situations. 99.9% of every interaction between police and the public, including criminals, does not require SWAT-like force.


The mentality of policing must change. And if these cops don't like it, go join the army. Don't bring the army to our cities.

Quote:Besides the Battlestar Galactica quote, how exactly are our police militarized? Hyperbole and Hollywood fantasies have eroded people's minds into thinking that criminals will listen to the calm reasoning of a police officer and that when the time comes, any officer should be able to disarm criminals with their hand to hand ninja skills learned through a few months of "more training."


Your location may be someplace warm and fuzzy, but reality is that the streets aren't a gentle place. Police need guns and bullet proof vests.

The book City of Quartz details the militarization of the LAPD if you truly were wondering.

Quote:You realize police have the equipment they do now is because the equipment and mind set of the criminal has changed as well, right?


Would you feel better if the criminals, robbers, rapists, drug dealers have superior weapons and equipment than law enforcement? I hate to tell you, criminals do have a lot of the weapons police have. Also they get their hands on vests and other armor. So how then would an officer take them down? Ask politely? It was a while ago so I don't remember exactly what happened but wasn't there a couple guys in L.A. who robbed a bank or something and they walked away on foot with vests on and firing assault rifles?


I promise I'm not trying to single you out. lol.

If criminals do have firepower on par with the police, shouldn't we ask how that came to be?

Just another day interacting with our "protectors."

 

 

 

 

Quote:If criminals do have firepower on par with the police, shouldn't we ask how that came to be?

Uh, they are criminals? You think gun control or taking the 2nd amendment away will stop law breakers from breaking that law and still having those weapons?

Quote:Just another day interacting with our "protectors."

Sadly, that might be defensible. It's probably just a pig being a pig, but if she was spitting God knows what at the officer and he didn't have gloves or a rag to improvise with, raising his foot to cover her mouth while waiting for a facial covering might have been the best option available. Is there a caption there?

Quote:So you are taking the extreme outlier events and then training the entire PD to handle all interactions with the community in that way? Based on outlier events we need to arm our entire PD as a military force?

That's a terrible policy.

How many interactions do you think a metro black and white patrolman comes across where a standard glock side arm is being over powered?

As I said, the SWAT unit is designed to handle those situations. 99.9% of every interaction between police and the public, including criminals, does not require SWAT-like force.

The mentality of policing must change. And if these cops don't like it, go join the army. Don't bring the army to our cities.

I'm sorry I gave an example. But if you think that criminals dont have or don't have access to more firepower, then your crazy.

But on those "rare occasions" I guess we can let the cops die, right?

Quote:Uh... police are allowed to shoot people. Is that not what we are discussing??? The fact that most officers aren't even indicted and put on trial is defacto free reign.


This cop that shot the Miami therapist is being protected by his captain and IS on paid leave.


Those are facts.

 

Police that are proven in court to have done something illegal are prosecuted and often given harsher punishments than gang bangers.  If having carte blanche to you is having to be convicted of wrong doing with evidence in court, then yes all Americans have it.  That cop isn't getting off scott free.  He will lose his job, his pension, and probably any retirement savings.  He's likely unemployable in his career.  Its possible he is charged and convicted of a crime less than murder and suffers the associated consequences.  The officer's life will have effectively gone to crap over this and his family will suffer for it.  What you want is a witch hunt broadcast live on tv and for him to never see the light of day again over a mistake he made when in his mind he was trying to save someone's life.

Quote:Sadly, that might be defensible. It's probably just a pig being a pig, but if she was spitting God knows what at the officer and he didn't have gloves or a rag to improvise with, raising his foot to cover her mouth while waiting for a facial covering might have been the best option available. Is there a caption there?

I was kinda wondering the same thing. Perhaps she was spitting at the officer. It wouldn't be the first time someone arrested with AIDS or whatever spat on an officer. Not saying she has a disease. But it does happen.

Quote:So you are taking the extreme outlier events and then training the entire PD to handle all interactions with the community in that way? Based on outlier events we need to arm our entire PD as a military force?


That's a terrible policy.


How many interactions do you think a metro black and white patrolman comes across where a standard glock side arm is being over powered?


As I said, the SWAT unit is designed to handle those situations. 99.9% of every interaction between police and the public, including criminals, does not require SWAT-like force.


The mentality of policing must change. And if these cops don't like it, go join the army. Don't bring the army to our cities.

 

Again, I have never in my life seen a SWAT team pull someone over and write them a ticket.  Usually, the only time you will see a SWAT team is when there is someone armed and barricaded inside a house or when serving a high risk warrant.  

A picture without context doesn't say much.  She may have been actively trying to bite him.  If it was an unwarranted kick, I'm sure the officer either was or will be fired and she will probably win some settlement money.  

 

When there is proof of misconduct, officers are punished.  I don't get the argument here.  The JSO officer recently that punched a handcuffed lady in the stomach who was actively kicking him was fired and put in jail.

Quote:A picture without context doesn't say much.  She may have been actively trying to bite him.  If it was an unwarranted kick, I'm sure the officer either was or will be fired and she will probably win some settlement money.  

 

When there is proof of misconduct, officers are punished.  I don't get the argument here.  The JSO officer recently that punched a handcuffed lady in the stomach who was actively kicking him was fired and put in jail.

That officer was black so I think they will spin that around somehow.

Quote:I was kinda wondering the same thing. Perhaps she was spitting at the officer. It wouldn't be the first time someone arrested with AIDS or whatever spat on an officer. Not saying she has a disease. But it does happen.

Looking at it more, I get the feeling that's what was going on. That's not a stellar camera being used. If he was kicking her in the mouth, we'd see a lot more motion blur and her arms would be visibly buckling. It is possible he was applying pressure to her mouth with his boot, as it does seem that she's leaning onto her arms slightly, but again, why?


Believe it or not, I'm actively inclined to think the best of a situation and give someone the benefit of the doubt. It's when I see video of a man being shot five times while immobilized or bleeding out after being shot repeatedly from six inches away with his loved ones ordered at gunpoint not to render aid that I get really pissed at the pigs in society.


All cops are liars. They're trained to lie to you and manipulate you into saying or doing something that grants them free reign to do as they please. Doesn't mean they're all bad people, and that's the line that people I find myself most at odds with refuse to see.

Quote:I'm sorry I gave an example. But if you think that criminals dont have or don't have access to more firepower, then your crazy.

But on those "rare occasions" I guess we can let the cops die, right?

Don't be sorry that you have an example. It showed how ludicrous the position you hold of hyper militarizing our PDs really is. :-)


Your last question, while cute, is a rhetorical question based on a false narrative.


So I'll answer that absurd question with a better one--


As a percentage, how often do you think a metro back and white patrolman will encounter a criminal that has fire power that will out match the patrolman's standard issue side arm?

Quote:Again, I have never in my life seen a SWAT team pull someone over and write them a ticket. Usually, the only time you will see a SWAT team is when there is someone armed and barricaded inside a house or when serving a high risk warrant.

Check YouTube. A guy decided to be a (bleep...check your PMs RJ) and flip off the SWAT van, so the SWAT team pulled him over and rolled out wearing M16's. Dick move on the guy's part? Yeah. Pig move by the SWAT team using their tank and assault rifles to completely abuse their power and use intimidation and terror tactics to get even with someone who made the most common hand gesture known to man? Yes. Very yes.

Quote:Sadly, that might be defensible. It's probably just a pig being a pig, but if she was spitting God knows what at the officer and he didn't have gloves or a rag to improvise with, raising his foot to cover her mouth while waiting for a facial covering might have been the best option available. Is there a caption there?

 

No, I think what I see is that she is hitting him in the foot with her head.  I hope he's okay.  

Quote:Again, I have never in my life seen a SWAT team pull someone over and write them a ticket. Usually, the only time you will see a SWAT team is when there is someone armed and barricaded inside a house or when serving a high risk warrant.

Willfully obtuse.


You just saw SWAT-like tactics with SWAT like weaponry shoot a black UN-ARMED Therapist in Miami...

Quote:Don't be sorry that you have an example. It showed how ludicrous the position you hold of hyper militarizing our PDs really is. :-)

Your last question, while cute, is a rhetorical question based on a false narrative.

So I'll answer that absurd question with a better one--

As a percentage, how often do you think a metro back and white patrolman will encounter a criminal that has fire power that will out match the patrolman's standard issue side arm?

Haha, yes, that was absolutely a rhetorical question, unlike the one earlier. I thought you'd like that.


I'd say it's rare. I'd also say they need those weapons in their trunk for when the situation does arise they aren't sitting ducks. Not to mention if there are multiple shooters gunning for the cops. Let's say we have another gunman enter a club with a weapon and mowing down the patrons and an officer is nearby but all he's got is his little pistol.