Quote:Uh, they are criminals? You think gun control or taking the 2nd amendment away will stop law breakers from breaking that law and still having those weapons?
Someone is providing access to these weapons was my point. Try and look at the larger picture of what's going on. The idea is for you to focus on a corner of the puzzle and it's working.
Quote:Check YouTube. A guy decided to be a (bleep...check your PMs RJ) and flip off the SWAT van, so the SWAT team pulled him over and rolled out wearing M16's. [BAD WORD REMOVED] move on the guy's part? Yeah. Pig move by the SWAT team using their tank and assault rifles to completely abuse their power and use intimidation and terror tactics to get even with someone who made the most common hand gesture known to man? Yes. Very yes.
The SWAT team wasn't out patrolling the neighborhoods. They were probably en route back from some call or training. You honestly, seriously can't tell the difference? Because it really is quite blatantly a big difference. This is your proof of militarization? The SWAT team made a poor choice by not choosing team teleportation to wherever they were going.
Quote:Someone is providing access to these weapons was my point. Try and look at the larger picture of what's going on. The idea is for you to focus on a corner of the puzzle and it's working.
im not sure why you feel what you're doing that is working, but I'm glad you've got high self-esteem.
Quote:im not sure why you feel what you're doing that is working, but I'm glad you've got high self-esteem.
I wasn't referring to myself when I said it was working. I also was not trying to insult you.
Quote:Willfully obtuse.
You just saw SWAT-like tactics with SWAT like weaponry shoot a black UN-ARMED Therapist in Miami...
And you are clueless. The call was a man with a gun. He responded with a long arm and setup behind a vehicle at a range where a handgun would be ineffective. That is not some patrolman pulling you over for speeding, throwing a flashbang into your Prius, extracting you with a M-16 or M-4, and then flexcuffing you while woefully disregarding your constitutional rights. Go to Turkey if you want to see the militarization of police.
You guys have extreme deluded definitions of militarization and brutality.
Quote:And you are clueless. The call was a man with a gun. He responded with a long arm and setup behind a vehicle at a range where a handgun would be ineffective. That is not some patrolman pulling you over for speeding, throwing a flashbang into your Prius, extracting you with a M-16 or M-4, and then flexcuffing you while woefully disregarding your constitutional rights. Go to Turkey if you want to see the militarization of police.
You guys have extreme deluded definitions of militarization and brutality.
I agree with this.
I actually LOL'd reading that after I pictured that scenario.
Quote:And you are clueless. The call was a man with a gun. He responded with a long arm and setup behind a vehicle at a range where a handgun would be ineffective. That is not some patrolman pulling you over for speeding, throwing a flashbang into your Prius, extracting you with a M-16 or M-4, and then flexcuffing you while woefully disregarding your constitutional rights. Go to Turkey if you want to see the militarization of police.
You guys have extreme deluded definitions of militarization and brutality.
Ok so you are choosing to not educate yourself on how one of many police departments has become militarized, got it. I definitely suggested a written account of it.
Quote:Ok so you are choosing to not educate yourself on how one of many police departments has become militarized, got it. I definitely suggested a written account of it.
No, I'm just disagreeing with you on the definition of militarization. You see or read about a big gun occasionally on the news and think its militarization. I know better than that. I know very well the types of tools that a lot of the departments have at the ready in case they are needed.
Quote:The SWAT team wasn't out patrolling the neighborhoods. They were probably en route back from some call or training. You honestly, seriously can't tell the difference? Because it really is quite blatantly a big difference. This is your proof of militarization? The SWAT team made a poor choice by not choosing team teleportation to wherever they were going.
Whoosh goes the point
A guy flipped off a SWAT van. Where it's coming from is irrelevant. Instead of being the more mature party and ignoring it, the SWAT team pulled him over and walked up to him wearing assault gear. Why? To protect the community? No, it's because they were mad and they had big guns, and they chose to use their perceived power and those big guns to communicate their displeasure. Pigs.
Quote:No, I'm just disagreeing with you on the definition of militarization. You see or read about a big gun occasionally on the news and think its militarization. I know better than that. I know very well the types of tools that a lot of the departments have at the ready in case they are needed.
Im not talking about the occasional big gun.
Quote:Check YouTube. A guy decided to be a (bleep...check your PMs RJ) and flip off the SWAT van, so the SWAT team pulled him over and rolled out wearing M16's. [BAD WORD REMOVED] move on the guy's part? Yeah. Pig move by the SWAT team using their tank and assault rifles to completely abuse their power and use intimidation and terror tactics to get even with someone who made the most common hand gesture known to man? Yes. Very yes.
While I ignored the fact that of course SWAT personnel will behave like the public is the enemy and they are an occupying force, this actually makes my argument.
When you train and equip the PD to like the military, they will treat the community like a war zone and the citizens like the enemy.
Of course, a disingenuous person would look at this as an isolated occurrence, the fact is that military like tactics are being used as standard operating procedure by regular "beat" cops.
When a cop, like the one in Miami, rolls up to a situation and takes a standoff position, he's been trained that way. He's looking at the call the way SWAT, or soldier, looks at it.
It's time to stop training out entire PD in this manner.
The SWAT unit training should be maybe 10-25% of your police force.
Otherwise, you've trained your entire PD as an army. The police are not an army.
Quote:And you are clueless. The call was a man with a gun. He responded with a long arm and setup behind a vehicle at a range where a handgun would be ineffective. That is not some patrolman pulling you over for speeding, throwing a flashbang into your Prius, extracting you with a M-16 or M-4, and then flexcuffing you while woefully disregarding your constitutional rights. Go to Turkey if you want to see the militarization of police.
You guys have extreme deluded definitions of militarization and brutality.
You're trolling me. Lol, I can't believe I fell for it. Kudos.
Quote:Whoosh goes the point
A guy flipped off a SWAT van. Where it's coming from is irrelevant. Instead of being the more mature party and ignoring it, the SWAT team pulled him over and walked up to him wearing assault gear. Why? To protect the community? No, it's because they were mad and they had big guns, and they chose to use their perceived power and those big guns to communicate their displeasure. Pigs.
If you give the finger to a cop driving down the street, I think most reasonable people would believe getting pulled over would be a good possibility. Whether the SWAT team should have pulled him over with their gear still on or not isn't even relevant. The relevant point is that they weren't actively policing a neighborhood. Again, a random SWAT van pulling over a wise guy is your flimsy argument about the militarization of police? How many SWAT vans do you see driving around a day? A week? A month? A year?
Quote:If you give the finger to a cop driving down the street, I think most reasonable people would believe getting pulled over would be a good possibility. Whether the SWAT team should have pulled him over with their gear still on or not isn't even relevant. The relevant point is that they weren't actively policing a neighborhood. Again, a random SWAT van pulling over a wise guy is your flimsy argument about the militarization of police? How many SWAT vans do you see driving around a day? A week? A month? A year?
It doesn't matter. You've demonstrated even if evidence to contrary is presented you will ignore it.
Quote:While I ignored the fact that of course SWAT personnel will behave like the public is the enemy and they are an occupying force, this actually makes my argument.
When you train and equip the PD to like the military, they will treat the community like a war zone and the citizens like the enemy.
Of course, a disingenuous person would look at this as an isolated occurrence, the fact is that military like tactics are being used as standard operating procedure by regular "beat" cops.
When a cop, like the one in Miami, rolls up to a situation and takes a standoff position, he's been trained that way. He's looking at the call the way SWAT, or soldier, looks at it.
It's time to stop training out entire PD in this manner.
The SWAT unit training should be maybe 10-25% of your police force.
Otherwise, you've trained your entire PD as an army. The police are not an army.
Wow. You are so far from knowledgeable on this subject. I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything... But you really know very little about police and policing in general. I don't think there is a department in the country that has 10% of its manpower as SWAT personnel. I don't know how many SWAT members are in the JSO, but if I had to take a guess, I would say probably 50 officers out of 1600+ are SWAT.
That cop in Miami rolled up into a situation where the call was a man with a gun. Does that sound familiar? It should. Just last week 3 officers were ambushed and killed and 3 more shot with the same exact call. Maybe if they would have rolled up with a long arm there would be 0 dead cops.
Quote:Wow. You are so far from knowledgeable on this subject. I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything... But you really know very little about police and policing in general. I don't think there is a department in the country that has 10% of its manpower as SWAT personnel. I don't know how many SWAT members are in the JSO, but if I had to take a guess, I would say probably 50 officers out of 1600+ are SWAT.
That cop in Miami rolled up into a situation where the call was a man with a gun. Does that sound familiar? It should. Just last week 3 officers were ambushed and killed and 3 more shot with the same exact call. Maybe if they would have rolled up with a long arm there would be 0 dead cops.
What research have you done on the militarization of police in this country?
Quote:If you give the finger to a cop driving down the street, I think most reasonable people would believe getting pulled over would be a good possibility. Whether the SWAT team should have pulled him over with their gear still on or not isn't even relevant. The relevant point is that they weren't actively policing a neighborhood. Again, a random SWAT van pulling over a wise guy is your flimsy argument about the militarization of police? How many SWAT vans do you see driving around a day? A week? A month? A year?
Safe to say you're not a constitutionalist. That's fair, not everyone in the USA believes in the first amendment. That apparently includes you.
Quote:Safe to say you're not a constitutionalist. That's fair, not everyone in the USA believes in the first amendment. That apparently includes you.
I'm a staunch Libertarian. So I think its safe to say you are very wrong.
Quote:What research have you done on the militarization of police in this country?
I don't want to get too specific, but I have a good working knowledge with the job I do every day.
Quote:I don't want to get too specific, but I have a good working knowledge with the job I do every day.
Im not saying you don't, but wouldn't be a bit naive to believe your job is representative of all departments?