Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:You know, I really do feel bad for you. You are obviously passionate about this cause and I sympathize with you even if we can't agree.

I don't think everyone needs to agree with me. But when people say it makes people unsafe I ask how? When people introduce the idea they are being punished because of policies to make trans people safer I ask how?


It's not a matter of agreement. It's a matter of being able to back up what you're saying. If we were debating the best WR in Jags history we could go back and forth talking about stats or big performances. But on this subject, people make some pretty damning statements or generalizations and when challenged to defend their stance they reply with sarcastic jokes, misguided attacks or they change the subject. Many confess.. I didn't read up on it or I don't care, but never move from a position they have refused to defend. Like you said.. people believe what they want to believe.


Sometimes the truth needs to be heard even if you don't like it or want to hear it. Maybe I'm the one who is completely wrong about everything. I'll never know if I cannot assess the merits of a person's response to my questions. I can respect some people for at least trying to have a dialogue, but if we are being honest most people I have been debating with choose not to respond to direct questions I pose to them. That tells me they have little confidence in the foundation of their arguments and are afraid of maybe, possibly not being 100% right. If I argued Dennis Northcutt was the greatest WR this team has known over and over again while providing no substance to support the argument, you'd react in much the same way I have reacted here. So don't feel bad for me. I'm just keeping people honest. Because lies that get repeated over and over again tend to become a boogeyman people believe in. And there IS danger there.

Quote:Blind lady....


The end of your credibility

Puked on your keyboard again? Your mom must get sick of cleaning that up.


You are the least credible poster on this message board. Just so you know.

Quote:Puked on your keyboard again? Your mom must get sick of cleaning that up.


You are the least credible poster on this message board. Just so you know.

Truth hurts huh?

Quote:Truth hurts huh?

Reading your posts can be pretty painful if that's what you're getting at. Though there's usually little truth there.

Quote:Reading your posts can be pretty painful if that's what you're getting at. Though there's usually little truth there.

Listen. Don't beat yourself up. Your a victim of our society. When you start talking about being two spirited and native Americans in sure most people fawn and clap. When u start talking about being "born that way" etc. You are seen as tolerant and open minded.


In most circles no matter what you say it will be applauded because its so modern and inclusive. As such you just keep making bigger and bolder proclamations. You say that all trans women are inherently and irrevocably attracted to men, nevermind that the mist famous trans woman in the country is a father saying women. You say that you can't identify ad blind when there is a direct incident contrafictong you.


You are rarely in an environment that actually required you to defend the things you say and it shows by you only reciting talking points. But don't be embarrassed.... Its not your fault.

Quote:Listen. Don't beat yourself up. Your a victim of our society. When you start talking about being two spirited and native Americans in sure most people fawn and clap. When u start talking about being "born that way" etc. You are seen as tolerant and open minded.


In most circles no matter what you say it will be applauded because its so modern and inclusive. As such you just keep making bigger and bolder proclamations. You say that all trans women are inherently and irrevocably attracted to men, nevermind that the mist famous trans woman in the country is a father saying women. You say that you can't identify ad blind when there is a direct incident contrafictong you.


You are rarely in an environment that actually required you to defend the things you say and it shows by you only reciting talking points. But don't be embarrassed.... Its not your fault.

C'mon man! Your mom just cleaned up that mess and you puked on it again.


You are a [BLEEP] mess. At least you finally figured out the "yellow in the front, brown in the back" rule.


Just so you know.. there's no moratorium on being able to respond to any of my questions, especially the one which asks why someone would choose to be transgender.


You can troll and misquote all you like. You can duck that direct discussion you seem so sincere on having. You can vomit all over your keyboard with nonsense nobody is coming along for the ride with you on. You can fail miserably at trying to be funny. You can delude yourself into thinking you are winning a debate you have been too chicken [BLEEP] to actually engage in. Your actions and words could not possibly register lower on my list of things I care about. Unfortunately for us all, you were simply born that way.

The premise of your question implies all human choice is logical. Without being too freudian, attention mostly.


Classic left. Get called out and caught redhanded and then complain about not getting the answer they want to irrelevant questions.


Still waiting on munchausen by proxy.

Quote:The premise of your question implies all human choice is logical. <b> I would like to make sure I am following you correctly.  You may misquote me or describe an awful situation about something that "happened" and attach a hyperlink which to takes me to a story about something completely different...  BUT I WOULD BE BESIDE MYSELF WITH GRIEF IF I EVER thought something YOU said was not accurate.  --The premise of my question is not why someone chooses 'anything'.  Because this backpedaling response is framed as if my initial question to you was: "Why do humans choose things?" which could imply choosing anything from what house to buy, what shoes to wear or what pizza toppings to get.  It was not.  My question to you was "Why would someone choose to be transgender?" </b>


 

Without being too freudian, attention mostly. I appreciate you pretending you are even moderately well read on Freudian psychology.  Your track record of not being able to use the most basic level of reading comprehension is well documented on the eternal walls of this message board.  
All of that aside..  I asked "Why would someone choose to be transgender?"  and your answer was "attention mostly."   (ACCEPT MY HUMBLEST APOLOGIES IF I AM MISQUOTING YOU IN ANY WAY).


 

<b>An interesting response.  Let me take a moment to consider it.   </b>


 

<b>Upon review of your given response, I regret to inform you that I do not accept that as a logical reason why someone would choose to be transgender.  </b>


 

<b>I will begin my list of reasons with the link below which I posted and you never clicked on (and won't now).  You won't read it even if I tell you all you need to do is scroll down to the video taken in first person from a transgender person being harassed and assaulted unprovoked while riding the subway.  </b>


 

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/trans...gs.gnCOoHA

 

<b>To expound upon this point, I would also like to share this link from Germany where two transgender people were stoned in the street by strangers.</b>


 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...rmany.html

 

<b>..and this transgender person attacked by 20 gay men?  It's not just straight people they need to be afraid of.  </b>


 

http://planettransgender.com/brazilian-t...pparently/

<b>All of these incidents are just the past 4 months.  This is the attention (mostly) you propose makes sense for a person to choose for themselves?  Getting harassed and beaten?</b>


 

<b>Or maybe when you say attention, you think transgender people are like drag queens like something you saw in a movie?  Is that how you think transgender people live?  </b>


 

<b>I have met no fewer than 9 Jacksonville residents who are transgender (one so convincing I swear you'd try to pick her up -- you'd fail at that too).  Not one of them looks like a drag queen for the record.  The simplest way I could describe them is they feel most comfortable dressing in clothes which aligns with the sex they were not biologically assigned at birth.  Other than that they are pretty normal (should you approach one in the real world, I promise they'll be more afraid of you than you are them).  </b>


 

<b>I have heard personal accounts from each of these people of the type of "attention" they get.  It does not sound like the desirable existence I would choose for myself (though given a choice between being transgender or being you, I would choose transgender EVERY time).  If you imagine walking around in "transgenderland" is like an episode of Glee. Sorry. </b>


 

Classic left. Get called out and caught redhanded and then complain about not getting the answer they want to irrelevant questions.  "<b>Why would anyone choose to be transgender?" is an irrelevant question for what we've been discussing for 20 some pages</b><b>?  Yup.   You're winning alright.</b>


 

Still waiting on munchausen by proxy.  What are you waiting on? I answered this.

Quote: 

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jj82284" data-cid="746911" data-time="1462477257">
<div>
The premise of your question implies all human choice is logical. <b> I would like to make sure I am following you correctly.  You may misquote me or describe an awful situation about something that "happened" and attach a hyperlink which to takes me to a story about something completely different...  BUT I WOULD BE BESIDE MYSELF WITH GRIEF IF I EVER thought something YOU said was not accurate.  --The premise of my question is not why someone chooses 'anything'.  Because this backpedaling response is framed as if my initial question to you was: "Why do humans choose things?" which could imply choosing anything from what house to buy, what shoes to wear or what pizza toppings to get.  It was not.  My question to you was</b>
"Why would someone choose to be transgender?" 


 

 

Without being too freudian, attention mostly. I appreciate you pretending you are even moderately well read on Freudian psychology.  Your track record of not being able to use the most basic level of reading comprehension is well documented on the eternal walls of this message board.  
All of that aside..  I asked "Why would someone choose to be transgender?"  and your answer was "attention mostly."   (ACCEPT MY HUMBLEST APOLOGIES IF I AM MISQUOTING YOU IN ANY WAY).


 

<b>An interesting response.  Let me take a moment to consider it.   </b>


 

Upon review of your given response, I regret to inform you that I do not accept that as a logical
reason why someone would choose to be transgender.  

 

<b>I will begin my list of reasons with the link below which I posted and you never clicked on (and won't now).  You won't read it even if I tell you all you need to do is scroll down to the video taken in first person from a transgender person being harassed and assaulted unprovoked while riding the subway.  </b>


 

http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/trans...gs.gnCOoHA

 

<b>To expound upon this point, I would also like to share this link from Germany where two transgender people were stoned in the street by strangers.</b>


 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnew...rmany.html

 

<b>..and this transgender person attacked by 20 gay men?  It's not just straight people they need to be afraid of.  </b>


 

http://planettransgender.com/brazilian-t...pparently/

<b>All of these incidents are just the past 4 months.  This is the attention (mostly) you propose makes sense for a person to choose for themselves?  Getting harassed and beaten?</b>


 

<b>Or maybe when you say attention, you think transgender people are like drag queens like something you saw in a movie?  Is that how you think transgender people live?  </b>


 

<b>I have met no fewer than 9 Jacksonville residents who are transgender (one so convincing I swear you'd try to pick her up -- you'd fail at that too).  Not one of them looks like a drag queen for the record.  The simplest way I could describe them is they feel most comfortable dressing in clothes which aligns with the sex they were not biologically assigned at birth.  Other than that they are pretty normal (should you approach one in the real world, I promise they'll be more afraid of you than you are them).  </b>


 

<b>I have heard personal accounts from each of these people of the type of "attention" they get.  It does not sound like the desirable existence I would choose for myself (though given a choice between being transgender or being you, I would choose transgender EVERY time).  If you imagine walking around in "transgenderland" is like an episode of Glee. Sorry. </b>


 

Classic left. Get called out and caught redhanded and then complain about not getting the answer they want to irrelevant questions.  "<b>Why would anyone choose to be transgender?" is an irrelevant question for what we've been discussing for 20 some pages</b><b>?  Yup.   You're winning alright.</b>


 

Still waiting on munchausen by proxy.  What are you waiting on? I answered this.

 

</div>
</blockquote>
 

As i said, and as you proved, your question is based on the idea that human beings make decisions logically.  We know that not to be the case.  People commit suicide because they want attention, people are trapped in the cycle of choosing abusive partners that are abusive because they have a weak sense of self, masochistic tendancies, etc.  The most complex psychological puzzle is how and why we develop our sense of "SELF."  The one thing that we can be sure of on the whole of human history is that human choice is not inherently predicated on what is right, logical or even healthy.  

 

Moreover, I have stated repeatedly that the concept of choice and biological predisposition are not mutually exclusive.  I have sexual urges every time i see a woman with nice legs in a pair of high heels.  It's the way i am.  Going up to a woman and soliciting a date would be a choice, and a violation of the oath i made to my wife.  My natural urges do not make my ACTIONS and CHOICES right on their face.  

 

There are lots of men who don't achieve sexual arousal unless the person that they are with or fantasizing about is pre-pubescent.  does that mean that CHOOSING to ACT on those feelings excuses pedophilia?  What about men who can't achieve arousal or climax unless the woman that they are having intercourse with is being forced against her Will.  Marquis De Sade inspired entire lines of sexual thought based on that concept.  Does that make Rape okay?  Why don't we celebrate these PREDATORS trapped in human bodies?

Quote:As i said, and as you proved, your question is based on the idea that human beings make decisions logically. We know that not to be the case. People commit suicide because they want attention, people are trapped in the cycle of choosing abusive partners that are abusive because they have a weak sense of self, masochistic tendancies, etc. The most complex psychological puzzle is how and why we develop our sense of "SELF." The one thing that we can be sure of on the whole of human history is that human choice is not inherently predicated on what is right, logical or even healthy.


Moreover, I have stated repeatedly that the concept of choice and biological predisposition are not mutually exclusive. I have sexual urges every time i see a woman with nice legs in a pair of high heels. It's the way i am. Going up to a woman and soliciting a date would be a choice, and a violation of the oath i made to my wife. My natural urges do not make my ACTIONS and CHOICES right on their face.


There are lots of men who don't achieve sexual arousal unless the person that they are with or fantasizing about is pre-pubescent. does that mean that CHOOSING to ACT on those feelings excuses pedophilia? What about men who can't achieve arousal or climax unless the woman that they are having intercourse with is being forced against her Will. Marquis De Sade inspired entire lines of sexual thought based on that concept. Does that make Rape okay? Why don't we celebrate these PREDATORS trapped in human bodies?

Nobody is getting hurt if someone decides to be a transgender individual. Rape hurts.


Not much of a comparison there.

What about someone pouring drano on their eyes to identify as blind. Is that ok?

Quote:My message to concerned parents is not sit down, shut up and accept it. It is educate yourself. And if you don't do that, ask yourself if what you're so afraid of happening is real or imaginary.  Yet again another condescending approach.  You continue to preach that transgenders will not rape, assault or take photos of people in bathrooms.  Still you fail to consider or acknowledge that bad people with malice will take advantage of this concept.  Because you say so if anyone disagrees, their concerns are irrational.  Considering your spouse was a victim of abuse your compassion is underwhelming. 



As for incidents at Target, I know groups of straight people are trying to make a very dumb point by going in bathrooms and I linked to that earlier. I also know jj alluded to a man dressed as a woman "being dragged out of a bathroom" but when I clicked the video on Breitbart I saw a woman in the bathing suit section approached by a man she recognized as trying to video her at a different store altogether years ago and chased him out of there yelling for the cops. If neither of these is what you are referencing, I would need more detail to properly reply.


I am totally on board with family restrooms or single stall gender neutral bathrooms as a solution. Opponents have scoffed at costs associated with that solution, but in truth we are really just talking about going potty.  You stated earlier that was not an option if I recall.



I am happily married to a woman who was sexually abused as a child and a teen. I too struggle with the impact of sexual abuse and how it can suck the life and happiness out of a person. I have a young daughter I am fearful for. I would not want to put my child in harm's way and understand where the fear can come from. But straight guys with bad intentions have been using bathrooms as potential places to attack since the invention of bathrooms.
While I can see how one can draw the conclusion a bad person COULD take advantage of these policies, I cannot ignore countless comments from police departments and political offices who are repeating over and over again... this is not happening. No increase. Could it happen? Sure. If it does, do I feel that person should be castrated or possibly sentenced to death? Yes. (Who's liberal now?) So I can agree that the safety of women and children should always be a top concern. I just can't ignore state after state saying they are as safe as they ever were.  My direct response to what is in blue, why make it easier for them?


 

You continue to say that police and politicians say this is not happening.  Two things, #1 you have not offered any proof of this that I have seen (my apologies if I missed it)  #2 As I stated previously I dismiss this statement since the issue of gender neutral restrooms has not been the fore front of our social conscious.  Now that it is, my gut feeling based on human nature tells me there will be an uptick in perverted individuals trying to take advantage of it.

In conclusion, I acknowledge your passion however it is my opinion that you are being blinded by that passion since you refuse to acknowledge nor even consider the possibilities of unintended consequences.

Quote:IT amazes me more that people think we should realign society around a minute percentage of abnormalities.

Quote:As i said, and as you proved, your question is based on the idea that human beings make decisions logically.  We know that not to be the case.  People commit suicide because they want attention, people are trapped in the cycle of choosing abusive partners that are abusive because they have a weak sense of self, masochistic tendancies, etc.  The most complex psychological puzzle is how and why we develop our sense of "SELF."  The one thing that we can be sure of on the whole of human history is that human choice is not inherently predicated on what is right, logical or even healthy.  

 

<b>When did you make the decision to be straight?  Just curious.   </b>


 

<b>You are reducing your argument to just this, right?  Being transgender is a decision that people are making every day the same way you could choose to eat the same exact meal every day of your life.  And since the dawn of man, people have been transgender "by choice" for the purpose of "attention mostly." </b>


 

<b>Therefore, LGBT people who live in countries where religious extremists hunt and kill them are making a choice and can just the same choose to be straight to serve the primary biological function in all living creatures -- staying alive--  EXCEPT THE PROBLEM IS...  every transgender person who has ever faced harassment or attack (including those who live in countries where they are hunted with assault rifles and machetes) must ALSO be suffering from .."weak sense of self, masochistic tendencies, etc."  ..so they just keep being LGBT, knowing they can be quite literally murdered because of it.  </b>


 

<b>So these people are choosing it.  This kid right here in town who I linked to earlier is choosing it.</b>


 

http://mic.com/articles/142209/a-trans-t....0Q2BmW50K

 

My friend's daughter who I have told you about is choosing it too.  "For attention (mostly)."  A fairly consistent percentage of the planet has been all choosing this for all time. That is your argument.  


 

Moreover, I have stated repeatedly that the concept of choice and biological predisposition are not mutually exclusive.  I have sexual urges every time i see a woman with nice legs in a pair of high heels.  It's the way i am.  Going up to a woman and soliciting a date would be a choice, and a violation of the oath i made to my wife.  My natural urges do not make my ACTIONS and CHOICES right on their face.  

 

People born with XX chromosomes are generally considered female and people born with XY chromosomes are generally considered males.  

 

What are people born with XXY chromosomes generally considered?  What about people born with XYY chromosomes?  How would a doctor, a father or a mother know their baby was born XXY or XYY on the day of it's birth?  How would the baby itself know when it travels through that "most complex psychological puzzle" in developing the sense of self?  And when they get old enough to realize what their sense of self is, who are you to criticize them for it?


 

I am grateful you at least acknowledge there is a biological explanation for why transgender people exist.  What I am curious about is why you reject it and are so transfixed on the notion it is something all LGBT are choosing for themselves and their families knowing that any stranger may be of a disposition to harm them unprovoked? 

 

The argument that being transgender is a choice, of course also excludes the medical possibility that fluctuations or imbalances in certain hormones or the use of certain FDA approved medicines during pregnancy may cause transgender or intersex conditions in utero.  Or that being transgender is tied to brain structure.  This to you is also not as acceptable as the belief it is a choice.

 

<b>Continuing to introduce your own urges and talking about your marriage oath has nothing to do with the transgender discussion.  You are a straight male with certain urges and preferences based on your upbringing and testosterone levels.  Whoop-dee-doo.  You're not special.  </b>


 

<b>then you hit me with that last line..  </b>


 

<b>"My natural urges do not make my ACTIONS and URGES right on the face."</b>


 

<b>..and I thought to myself..  "what the [BAD WORD REMOVED] is he trying to say here?"</b>


 

<b>Is this some latent guilt you have because you have feelings of lust for some 20 year old pumping gas in heels and you're married? Are you repressed somehow?  What actions have you been taking by following your natural urges which are not right?   Or are you saying a trans person's natural urges do not make them the right urges?  </b>


 

<b>Whatever it is you were trying to say, I think it works better as a mystery..  again..  I do not see how any of it bears relevance.</b>


 

There are lots of men who don't achieve sexual arousal unless the person that they are with or fantasizing about is pre-pubescent.  does that mean that CHOOSING to ACT on those feelings excuses pedophilia?  What about men who can't achieve arousal or climax unless the woman that they are having intercourse with is being forced against her Will.  Marquis De Sade inspired entire lines of sexual thought based on that concept.  Does that make Rape okay?  Why don't we celebrate these PREDATORS trapped in human bodies?

 

<b>You really want to muddy the waters don't you.  This is the same type of maneuver Liberty Counsel and that brand of opportunists employ when trying to distract from the real discussion.  You want to introduce the contested causes of pedophilia, masochism AND tendencies for rape/violence against women into the contested argument we are having right now on the causes of transgender.  (Of course you're not equating transgender people with pedophiles.  You just like it when those two words are really close together in a sentence. )  </b>


 

<b>You have trouble enough staying on one topic within a single post you are typing yourself without bringing in all that other garbage.  But nice effort in trying to paint me as a person that condones pedophilia and rape because I find the theory transgender people are "that way" by choice to be patently false.</b>


 

<b>Of course my bias on this ONLY comes from the transgender people who have confided in me that they did not choose to be this way.  I don't know if you've been hiding some REALLY impressive Breitbart link in your back pocket all this time to an article that will simply blow my mind, but I am gonna trust my gut on this one. </b>


 

<b>If you really wanted to test your theory out, you could poll a cross section of actual transgender people yourself.  ..unless another trait of transgender people is pathological lying which they cannot control.</b>

 

As for your comments on Caitlyn Jenner.  As I have said..  you could not have picked a worse example for what transgender is. Having been in that family, I don't know what the hell she has going on in her head, but she is hardly the first gay or trans person to attempt to find happiness in the veil of the heteronormative lifestyle only to accept at a later time (often after having kids) that they are LGBT.  I know several examples of people gay and trans who fit this description here in Jax.  As for Caitlyn...  she wants to date men.

 

And as for the blind lady you linked to..  she is not CHOOSING that either..  She suffers from a mental disorder called Apotemnophilia.  You can read all about it here:

 

http://www.biid.org/biid-meaning.html

 

Since you have been stating all along being transgender is a choice, I can only assume you are not going to reverse stream now and claim it is a mental disorder like ol' Drano eyes you've been obsessing over.  Again..  you can stop introducing things that have no place in the transgender discussion any time you want.

Quote:As for your comments on Caitlyn Jenner.  As I have said..  you could not have picked a worse example for what transgender is. Having been in that family, I don't know what the hell she has going on in her head, but she is hardly the first gay or trans person to attempt to find happiness in the veil of the heteronormative lifestyle only to accept at a later time (often after having kids) that they are LGBT.  I know several examples of people gay and trans who fit this description here in Jax.  As for Caitlyn...  she wants to date men.

 

And as for the blind lady you linked to..  she is not CHOOSING that either..  She suffers from a mental disorder called Apotemnophilia.  You can read all about it here:

 

http://www.biid.org/biid-meaning.html

 

Since you have been stating all along being transgender is a choice, I can only assume you are not going to reverse stream now and claim it is a mental disorder like ol' Drano eyes you've been obsessing over.  Again..  you can stop introducing things that have no place in the transgender discussion any time you want.

 

Quote:As for your comments on Caitlyn Jenner.  As I have said..  you could not have picked a worse example for what transgender is. Having been in that family, I don't know what the hell she has going on in her head, but she is hardly the first gay or trans person to attempt to find happiness in the veil of the heteronormative lifestyle only to accept at a later time (often after having kids) that they are LGBT.  I know several examples of people gay and trans who fit this description here in Jax.  As for Caitlyn...  she wants to date men.

 



<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">No, 

Brody Jenner, 31, didn’t name any specific names. When Brody visited SiriusXM channel Shade 45’s <a>Sway in the Morning</a> on July 7, he answered a question concerning the gender of whoCaitlyn Jenner, 65, wants to date post-transition. She’s still attracted to women, and Brody wanted to make that very clear! Brody’s definitely got Caitlyn’s back!
 

Can you guys please make up your minds...  I don't like giving that family any more natural attention than it needs.  Also, we could spend two centuries talking about the psychological influences that could lead a man in that house to deduce that life might be fulfilling as a woman but that's low hanging fruit.  



 

And as for the blind lady you linked to..  she is not CHOOSING that either..  She suffers from a mental disorder called Apotemnophilia.  You can read all about it here:

 

http://www.biid.org/biid-meaning.html

 

Since you have been stating all along being transgender is a choice, I can only assume you are not going to reverse stream now and claim it is a mental disorder like ol' Drano eyes you've been obsessing over.  Again..  you can stop introducing things that have no place in the transgender discussion any time you want.


</blockquote>
 

So one set of people are mentally ill and the other are pioneers of high spirited virtue because of the pr campaign and pop culture?  

 

Also, for the purposes of the exercise, I'm not straight.  I have a strong predisposition to same sex attraction.  LESS FILLING  TASTES BETTER.  Two hot girls making out... man that's it for me brother.  But would bringing a third person into my relationship be HEALTHY?  no.  DO SOME PEOPLE CHOOSE TO ACT ON  THAT URGE?  yes.  As a result people have divorces, jealousy, they loose their entire families become estranged from their kids and loose tons of tons of money. 

 

As conscious beings we have the ability to reason.  That means that given any urge at any given time that we have the ability to undergo a cost risk analysis.  This manifests itself in the form of our actions.  We have proven time and time again that more often than not the emotional return on investment of fulfilling an inherent desire outweighs any perceived long term consequence.  This manifests itself in the form of self destructive behavior of all sorts.  

 

One thing you said did ring true, "You're not SPECIAL."  One of the most interesting things about our consciousness is the inherent need to set ourselves apart and be recognized as unique or as a member of a group that is unique and deserving of special attention or consideration.  This happens both at the conscious and the subconscious level.  Going to the very core of the disorder we are looking at individuals who at some point "consciously or subconsciously" made the decision that being a member of the opposite gender because it would bring them a greater sense of fulfillment, and the motivations can be myriad, but not necessarily fit any logical normative.  

 

Lastly, i believe and have for some time, that there is a difference between being trans gender and being genetically gender ambiguous.  If the base biological blue print never drew a line then its not really about identifying or defying social norms.

Quote:In conclusion, I acknowledge your passion however it is my opinion that you are being blinded by that passion since you refuse to acknowledge nor even consider the possibilities of unintended consequences.

 

Bad people are going to do bad things regardless of the laws. I did link to these comments earlier, but here is a more detailed breakdown of what was said.  A lot of consistent statements.

 

http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/03...hro/198533

 

If that doesn't fully satisfy you, consider the below link written in contrast to the draconian laws NC Governor McCrory pushed that will likely cost him his job. They cite 3 confirmed incidents in 17 years of a man dressing as a woman in a bathroom or locker room to try to attack women.  Like I said..  laws will not stop bad men.  

 

http://www.politifact.com/north-carolina...ks-cities/

 

I can understand why you and many others have that 'gut feeling' there will be an uptick..  but it has not been happening.  What evidence could you introduce that it will?  I'm not trying to be slick.  I am asking sincerely.  Because as that first link indicates, plenty of bogus fear pieces have been written on this matter.  When you sift through the manure and get to the facts, the threat is not nearly as real as some will frame it.

Quote:So one set of people are mentally ill and the other are pioneers of high spirited virtue because of the pr campaign and pop culture?  

 

Also, for the purposes of the exercise, I'm not straight.  I have a strong predisposition to same sex attraction.  LESS FILLING  TASTES BETTER.  Two hot girls making out... man that's it for me brother.  But would bringing a third person into my relationship be HEALTHY?  no.  DO SOME PEOPLE CHOOSE TO ACT ON  THAT URGE?  yes.  As a result people have divorces, jealousy, they loose their entire families become estranged from their kids and loose tons of tons of money. 

 

As conscious beings we have the ability to reason.  That means that given any urge at any given time that we have the ability to undergo a cost risk analysis.  This manifests itself in the form of our actions.  We have proven time and time again that more often than not the emotional return on investment of fulfilling an inherent desire outweighs any perceived long term consequence.  This manifests itself in the form of self destructive behavior of all sorts.  

 

One thing you said did ring true, "You're not SPECIAL."  One of the most interesting things about our consciousness is the inherent need to set ourselves apart and be recognized as unique or as a member of a group that is unique and deserving of special attention or consideration.  This happens both at the conscious and the subconscious level.  Going to the very core of the disorder we are looking at individuals who at some point "consciously or subconsciously" made the decision that being a member of the opposite gender because it would bring them a greater sense of fulfillment, and the motivations can be myriad, but not necessarily fit any logical normative.  

 

Lastly, i believe and have for some time, that there is a difference between being trans gender and being genetically gender ambiguous.  If the base biological blue print never drew a line then its not really about identifying or defying social norms.

 

Enjoy..  

 

http://www.eonline.com/shows/i_am_cait/n...-i-am-cait

 

I think this discussion has been going really swell..  I have answered every left field question you proposed.  I am a bit confused though..  you have been banging the drum for the argument of choice and ignored the biological explanation..  then you start throwing around genetic ambiguity...  If you could kindly respond to the questions I highlighted in red on my last post regarding XXY and XYY babies and why you reject the biological explanation it sure would make it easier for me to want to continue this dialogue.

Quote:Enjoy..  

 

http://www.eonline.com/shows/i_am_cait/n...-i-am-cait

 

I think this discussion has been going really swell..  I have answered every left field question you proposed.  I am a bit confused though..  you have been banging the drum for the argument of choice and ignored the biological explanation..  then you start throwing around genetic ambiguity...  If you could kindly respond to the questions I highlighted in red on my last post regarding XXY and XYY babies and why you reject the biological explanation it sure would make it easier for me to want to continue this dialogue.

 

I never said that I reject a biological explanation for the inherent urge desire etc.  I said that as conscious beings we are not beholden to our biology.  I also gave several examples of people who exhibit other inherent desires or urges that we as a society don't prop up on a pedestal.  

 

I can also draw a fundamental difference between someone who is born with distinct chromosomal anomalies or deformed genitalia and someone who is genetically normal and presents a body integrity issue that leads them to believe that their body just feels wrong.  It would be like the difference between our blind lady and someone who in fact was born with something wrong with their eyes.  

 

There is a difference between someone having three chromosomes and a decision was made by their parents against the way their body actually developed during puberty and someone who has a general personality complex that just doesn't like the way they were born to begin with.  

 

What i do reject is the premise that the way you are born is inherently good right and upstanding.  If i were born with a deformed hand i would want a healthy hand, not make a cult around my deformity.  If someone has 20% more connectors between the hemispheres of their brains and that leads them to a more emotional experience in life then that doesn't make you a woman and the solution isn't to put on a dress.  

Quote:Bad people are going to do bad things regardless of the laws. I did link to these comments earlier, but here is a more detailed breakdown of what was said.  A lot of consistent statements.

 

http://mediamatters.org/research/2014/03...hro/198533

 

If that doesn't fully satisfy you, consider the below link written in contrast to the draconian laws NC Governor McCrory pushed that will likely cost him his job. They cite 3 confirmed incidents in 17 years of a man dressing as a woman in a bathroom or locker room to try to attack women.  Like I said..  laws will not stop bad men.  

 

http://www.politifact.com/north-carolina...ks-cities/

 

I can understand why you and many others have that 'gut feeling' there will be an uptick..  but it has not been happening.  What evidence could you introduce that it will?  I'm not trying to be slick.  I am asking sincerely.  Because as that first link indicates, plenty of bogus fear pieces have been written on this matter.  When you sift through the manure and get to the facts, the threat is not nearly as real as some will frame it.

Your first link was complete tripe.  I don't trust anything coming from biased sites regardless of left or right leanings.  Your second link offers a rather compelling argument; however, it still does not address the issue of people feeling uncomfortable with sharing a bathroom of the opposite sex.  Clearly though you have taken one of my arguments from me.  

You seem fixated on urges and desires and are all over the map. First you say trans people are doing it by choice (for attention -- mostly). And you have a hard time accepting the Drano lady has a mental disorder, even though it's stated in the title of the article you linked to. NOW you say you don't reject the biological explanation. Great!


You didn't even remotely answer the direct questions on XXY or XYY babies though. How would anyone know at the time of birth? I'm not talking about hermaphrodites as you allude to or any other deformities (like people with XY chromosomes, but eventually have breasts and/or lady parts). And more importantly, how would an XXY or XYY baby eventually realize they are not XX or XY?


If you do not reject the biological explanation, then does that mean you accept that there is the possibility these people are born this way, without a choice? Some people come to self-realization they are trans around the age they start becoming aware of their sexuality. Others like Jazz Jennings and my friend's daughter came to the self-realization in early childhood.


I will use these young people as a perfect example. Both raised in good homes, they self identified as trans before an age where sexual urges could have possibly developed. In neither case was there any sort of influence to be trans. Since now you confess to being open to the biological explanation, how can you reject the very real possibility these people were in fact born that way?