So far most of the Jaguars draft talk revolves around Jack, Ramsey, Bosa and Tunsil with DeForest Buckner generally as an afterthought. He's widely seen as redundant and not a position of need for the Jaguars. But the Jaguars have dropped hints IMO that he's possibly more in play than we think he is.
The first hint was signing Malik Jackson. Many people didn't see that as a position of need with Marks on the roster, and some general depth there already. But they signed him nonetheless. The second hint was going after Robert Ayers, who by all accounts that I've heard would have played as an inside rusher similar to Jackson. The only other pass rusher they went after that I know of is Olivier Vernon, who is very similar in size at least to Dante Fowler and likely would have played similar roles.
So it's not as much that they didn't sign an edge rusher, but more that they only really went after one guy. This can be interpreted in many ways. You could argue there wasn't anyone to sign, or that Caldwell just simply screwed up. But I think it means something different.
It almost seems they are valuing inside rush over outside rush, and possibly have some defensive scheme in mind that focuses more on players of that type. I don't know what it is, or how, but I'm starting to think the people who think they couldn't get Buckner on the field enough to warrant the pick may be wrong.
The fact that they didn't sign a single outside pass rusher in FA is peculiar with Dave Caldwell himself speaking in press conferences about the dire state of the pass rush and the idea that there would be
"an influx of pass rushers". Is he really relying on rookies and Dante Fowler coming off an injury to turn around the pass rush from the LEO position? Or is the LEO position not as important as we're making it out to be? Are they implementing a new scheme? One where LEO isn't nearly as important in the pass rush as it used to be? If so, maybe they value Buckner over Bosa. Maybe Buckner is the only pass rusher they like in the first round.
I'm going to quote Alfie from BCC here who I'm pretty sure is against drafting Buckner. But this quote is relevant:
Quote:I would expect, based on hearing Caldwell speak on the pass rush issue, the Jaguars to sign at least one upper tier free agent at the position, another mid-tier player and then someone in the upcoming draft in the first two days. I don’t think "pass rusher" is limited to just LEO either, as Caldwell continuously just stated pass rusher. That could be a linebacker, a big end who can rush, or even an interior lineman.
Interior Lineman position is so deep I would pass on Buckner.
I would be surprised. I like Buckner as a prospect and think he would be a great fit in the spot Odrick currently occupies. But there is sort of a log jam in the interior line.
Quote:Interior Lineman position is so deep I would pass on Buckner.
That's kind of where I'm at. Buckner and Bosa both I think would make great 5-techs but using a top 5 pick on that for a
slight upgrade from Odrick isn't realistic, especially considering Odrick has a pretty good sized contract.
Quote:That's kind of where I'm at. Buckner and Bosa both I think would make great 5-techs but using a top 5 pick on that for a slight upgrade from Odrick isn't realistic, especially considering Odrick has a pretty good sized contract.
The Odrick contract is written so it would be easy to get out of. But I thought Odrick played pretty well last year.
DT Chris Jones, a guy that has met with the Jags on multiple occasions, is someone who I think could be comparable to Buckner, and could be available in the 2nd or 3rd round depending on how the draft shakes out.
Buckner combine stats:
COMBINE STATS
40 YARD DASH: 5.05 SEC
VERTICAL JUMP: 32.0 INCH
BROAD JUMP: 116.0 INCH
3 CONE DRILL: 7.51 SEC
20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.47 SEC
Jones combine stats:
COMBINE STATS
40 YARD DASH: 5.03 SEC
BENCH PRESS: 26 REPS
VERTICAL JUMP: 24.5 INCH
BROAD JUMP: 106.0 INCH
3 CONE DRILL: 7.44 SEC
20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.62 SEC
It makes you think... Interior DL is widely considered the deepest area in the draft, and Buckner is widely considered the best of the group. Would getting the best player in the deepest position group in the draft be a bad thing?
Stroud and Henderson anchored a pretty good defense that didn't have any superior pass rushers.
Quote:The Odrick contract is written so it would be easy to get out of. But I thought Odrick played pretty well last year.
Yeah, that's the biggest reason for not wanting to draft Buckner. Odrick and Miller played great. With Malik out there and Marks behind them, I think we have a pretty good DL. I am not opposed to getting another DL in the 2nd if they are the BAP, but not with a top 5 pick. That should be based more on need, which Jack would fill a huge one.
Quote:DT Chris Jones, a guy that has met with the Jags on multiple occasions, is someone who I think could be comparable to Buckner, and could be available in the 2nd or 3rd round depending on how the draft shakes out.
Buckner combine stats:
COMBINE STATS
40 YARD DASH: 5.05 SEC
VERTICAL JUMP: 32.0 INCH
BROAD JUMP: 116.0 INCH
3 CONE DRILL: 7.51 SEC
20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.47 SEC
Jones combine stats:
COMBINE STATS
40 YARD DASH: 5.03 SEC
BENCH PRESS: 26 REPS
VERTICAL JUMP: 24.5 INCH
BROAD JUMP: 106.0 INCH
3 CONE DRILL: 7.44 SEC
20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.62 SEC
But then you look at on field production numbers...
Buckner is good no doubt, but like someone else said, DT is so deep in this draft. Don't want to lose out on Jack or Ramsey for him. I also agree with pass rush obviously isn't relegated to the outside at all, you can do a lot of things with a interior lineman, but still, would way rather have the other two.
Quote:I would be surprised. I like Buckner as a prospect and think he would be a great fit in the spot Odrick currently occupies. But there is sort of a log jam in the interior line.
Quote:Yeah, that's the biggest reason for not wanting to draft Buckner. Odrick and Miller played great. With Malik out there and Marks behind them, I think we have a pretty good DL. I am not opposed to getting another DL in the 2nd if they are the BAP, but not with a top 5 pick. That should be based more on need, which Jack would fill a huge one.
But my point is all about pass rush. If you look at Buckner as a pass rusher, and you consider pass rush as one of your biggest needs, and if Buckner is considered the best pass rusher in their new scheme (if there is a new scheme) then Buckner fills a need.
Quote:But then you look at on field production numbers...
Ok? One is a junior the other is a senior. They also didn't play the same exact position either. You don't judge a prospect by his college stats.
I actually think the jags will take Ramsey or Buckner. I'd be surprised if it is Jack or Tunsil. Bosa is good but does he have elite potential?
Quote:But my point is all about pass rush. If you look at Buckner as a pass rusher, and you consider pass rush as one of your biggest needs, and if Buckner is considered the best pass rusher in their new scheme (if there is a new scheme) then Buckner fills a need.
I personally don't see that. I don't see him as a pass rusher at all. He's very similar to Bosa in that he's strong, great instincts, great vs. the run, but lacks that first step and that versatility to get past lineman, especially when they get their hands on him.
Quote:Buckner is good no doubt, but like someone else said, DT is so deep in this draft. Don't want to lose out on Jack or Ramsey for him. I also agree with pass rush obviously isn't relegated to the outside at all, you can do a lot of things with a interior lineman, but still, would way rather have the other two.
I generally agree with this. And I'm usually against drafting DTs high. It all depends on their scheme. They may think Jack or Ramsey would make the bigger impact. Or they could look at it another way. It's also possible Jack and Ramsey are gone and they are choosing between Bosa and Buckner. Does one fill a bigger need than the other?
Buckner is a legit option, but I have a hard time seeing it with where he'd play. He's going to be a hell of a player no doubt and should very well be in consideration, but similar valued guys in Bosa, Jack, and Ramsey bring very good talent while also helping a position of need.
All depends what we want to do here, Buckner is a hell of a talent no doubt, but the other players fill gaping holes. Buckner slots in behind Malik and Big Sen at 3T as well as Odrick at 5T. If we aren't comfortable with one of Sen or Odrick in the future, it may open up some things though.
Quote:I personally don't see that. I don't see him as a pass rusher at all. He's very similar to Bosa in that he's strong, great instincts, great vs. the run, but lacks that first step and that versatility to get past lineman, especially when they get their hands on him.
Buckner is most definitely a pass rusher, he just isn't an edge rusher so that's not his main role/only role here. He showed he can get after the QB last year big time. He just needs to work on getting lower and he will honestly dominate. There's a reason he gets a ton of comparisons to Calais Campbell, who is an all pro, and a very disruptive pass rusher himself. He's honestly his twin.
Quote:Buckner is a legit option, but I have a hard time seeing it with where he'd play.
I don't know, maybe someone could come up with a scheme that has Buckner,Jackson, Marks and Fowler on the field at the same time. Or maybe it's just a rotational situation where you keep guys fresh and bring relentless pressure. Have those guys disrupt the line then have the LEOs or LBs as clean up.
Quote:I don't know, maybe someone could come up with a scheme that has Buckner,Jackson, Marks and Fowler on the field at the same time. Or maybe it's just a rotational situation where you keep guys fresh and bring relentless pressure. Have those guys disrupt the line then have the LEOs or LBs as clean up.
Pretty much.
I mean, it's never a bad thing to have this many highly talented stud defensive lineman. Buckner can do a whole lot of things really well. If we take Buckner, we have an idea in mind that gets him on the field without hurting our other talented guys in Odrick/Malik/Sen etc. We wouldn't just take him and that eliminates a player. Gus and Dave always preach rotation, rotation, rotation on the DL. You also want to build the trenches up to elite status before anywhere else, and if we add Buckner in rd 1 and gain a guy like Shilique Calhoun/Correa etc. in rd 2 or 3 (or trade up, Rd 3 seems unlikely), that's a scary pass rush. You have Odrick/Buckner/Sen/Malik who can all keep eachother fresh along the DL with Fowler from the LEO spot and a chance at developing another nice edge rusher opposite Fowler. Or on all pass rush downs, gets Buck/Sen/Malik/Fowler/Calhoun or Correa all in there.