Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Babich should have never been hired in the first place. Dopey Gus stacked his coaching staff with his ice cream buddies whether they were effective or not.

"ice cream buddies"


Lol


I don't know how Wash will be as a coordinator, but at least he is saying things I like to hear. That's the only thing he can do right now. We will have to wait and see how this pans out.

@FBT


I don't think anyone is saying it's one thing.


To say otherwise is creating a straw man.


We all know that there are deficiencies of talent on the defense. We all concede that.


The gripe with the coaching staff is only one part of it.


The reason it's such a vocal part, at least in terms of my posting history is because I have confidence that the talent deficiency will be assessed.


I have confidence in Caldwell right now. I am confident that the defense will continue to get better simply by our GM picking up good players. Caldwell has five enough for most of us to see that he is at the least extremely competent.


The coaching is where the confidence waivers. The wash press conference just points out how poor the coaching is. The lack of discipline that he speaks of is what alot of us have been saying for quite some time.


The bottom line is that we have the right gm, we all understand where we are weak in terms of players, but I think most of us see that as being in good hands to be fixed.


The coaching appears struck in neutral... That's why it may appear to be the only thing. It's not. It's just the one thing that looks to be static for another year. Everything else is in flux, everything else is about to be upgraded as deemed necessary.

Quote:"ice cream buddies"


Lol


I don't know how Wash will be as a coordinator, but at least he is saying things I like to hear. That's the only thing he can do right now. We will have to wait and see how this pans out.

 

Nope, that's not how it works.

 

You know better.

 

You have to "call it" now to prove you are a clairvoyant and you "see" the future.

 

That's how things work in the land of wizards and trolls.

Quote:... I have confidence that the talent deficiency will be assessed.

 

 

I have no doubt it will be assessed.

 

I am not, however, confident it will be properly addressed.  For that, I wait and see.

 

For if it's not properly addressed, that's all on the GM.  No scapegoating the coach for not "coaching up" inferior talent.   A coach can be properly blamed for what's in his control, but lack of talent isn't among those things.

Quote:I have no doubt it will be assessed.

 

I am not, however, confident it will be properly addressed. For that, I wait and see.

 

For if it's not properly addressed, that's all on the GM.  No scapegoating the coach for not "coaching up" inferior talent.  A coach can be properly blamed for what's in his control, but lack of talent isn't among those things.

 

We will definitely have more talent on defense next season. The young guys will be one year older. Will it be enough to show improvement on the field? That depends on the scheme fit IMO.

Quote:We will definitely have more talent on defense next season. The young guys will be one year older. Will it be enough to show improvement on the field? That depends on the scheme fit IMO.

 

You can't magically turn inferior talent into better talent with experience and coaching.

 

Most players careers aren't longer than three years.  That's not on coaching and experience, it's on the talent.  Talent that isn't viable.

Quote:You can't magically turn inferior talent into better talent with experience and coaching.

 

Most players careers aren't longer than three years.  That's not on coaching and experience, it's on the talent.  Talent that isn't viable.

 

But coaches can help players use their talents properly. Experience helps when that happens.

Babich wasn't a Seattle guy, was it a mistake hire, looks like it, but Wash imo can do a good job if they bring in the right talent. Say what you want about this defense the last couple years, but bottom line this scheme works. Seattle has been number 1 in points allowed the past 4 years, bring in the talent and this defense will flourish.

I also have always believed the reason our defense sucks is the roster, not the scheme. One question about Jalen Ramsey is, "Does he fit the scheme?" when we are scouting him. But talent is the most important factor. You could say that about anyone else - Joey Bosa, Mckensie Alexander, etc. Talent is always the first thing to look for.

 

Now about Dante Fowler, I have full confidence in his ability to play on both sides of the line and at OLB opposite Telvin Smith. He can play anywhere. The Gators moved him around. When he was at Florida, my thought was if we draft him, he will be our Leo.

Listening to Gus, Babich did not know the defensive system before being hired as defensive coordinator. No wonder the adjustments were non existent.

There's hope for improvement with Todd Wash then, but why would you hire a coordinator that does not master the system you run ?

 

Hopefully the Babich hire was made because Gus wanted somebody he was comfortable with and who would not challenge him as a rookie head coach, like Jedd Fisch.

 

From what I heard from Wash, he's got more of an understanding of the scheme and will be able to tweak it to fit the opponent or the available personnel.

Todd Walsh will be a head coach some day. He definitely has the personality of a head coach

Quote:Listening to Gus, Babich did not know the defensive system before being hired as defensive coordinator. No wonder the adjustments were non existent.

 

There's hope for improvement with Todd Wash then, but why would you hire a coordinator that does not master the system you run?

 

Hopefully the Babich hire was made because Gus wanted somebody he was comfortable with and who would not challenge him as a rookie head coach, like Jedd Fisch.

 

From what I heard from Wash, he's got more of an understanding of the scheme and will be able to tweak him to fit the opponent or the available personnel.

 

I would expect to see improvement from a coach who understands the scheme.

 

Part of tweaking the defense is adjusting to subsitutions. Will Todd Wash tell Dante Fowler to move after seeing a different offensive player come on the field? Fowler is a guy who can do that better than a player who always plays with his hand up or down.

Quote:Todd Walsh will be a head coach some day. He definitely has the personality of a head coach

 

Whoa, not so fast. Most people on this MB did not like the hire, saying Gus Bradley should have picked an outside coach. I am taking a wait and see approach because Todd Wash had never been a DC before.

 

There is a big difference between having the personality of a head coach and actually being good at the job. First things first, let's see if he is a good defensive coordinator.

We'll see hopefully Fowler can be a 10 sack per year guy. Being 3rd overall pick he should be.

Quote:We'll see hopefully Fowler can be a 10 sack per year guy. Being 3rd overall pick he should be.

 

At #3 overall I hope he gets more than 10 sacks per year.

Quote:These are people we are talking about. I hope you don't have a career were your boss hired you and saw potential in you and then fired you immediately after they saw you fail without at least not giving you a chance to learn and grow from your mistakes while never building a personal relationship with you so when they fire you they never even consider your family and financial needs.

Yes because that's totally the same scenario.


I have no problem with the relationships. Babich was a poor hire.


Berate me for thinking so all you want. I don't have a problem with the guy but I do have a problem with his performance and hiring as DC.


Sorry.

Quote:Yes because that's totally the same scenario.


I have no problem with the relationships. Babich was a poor hire.


Berate me for thinking so all you want. I don't have a problem with the guy but I do have a problem with his performance and hiring as DC.


Sorry.

 

How is it not the same scenario? They got a job and a family to feed just like the rest of us. 

 

Babich was indeed a poor hire. I'd like to have seen Wash get the nod for DC from the get go after seeing his press conference. 

Quote:Yeah, you're right.  I should just put aside logic and pick up a pitch fork.  Works for you, right?

 

At least you finally admit I'm right.

 

Quote:Despite their rankings in 2014, the defense appeared to be headed in the right direction when that season ended.   There was no way Babich was going to be fired after getting what he did from the defense despite a lack of legitimate pass rushers.

 

The step back this year on defense is what cost Babich his job.  Gus had little reason to fire his DC based on how the 2014 season ended.  The expectation was that the team would find pass rush help in the draft, and that things would continue to improve this year.  Nobody expected to lose our best defensive lineman and the rookie who was supposed to be your pass rush guy.  The issue this year was that no matter how they tried to scheme it, guys like Andre Branch didn't rise to the challenge similarly to what we saw in 2014.  Clemons was a non-factor.  Losing Marks was a pain point, but at least Roy Miller stepped up and did his job well. 

 

The defense took a step back as a unit in 2015.  Young players didn't really show the kind of improvement that should have been expected.  Too often we saw guys completely out of position, taking themselves out of plays, taking bad angles, not tackling effectively.  The end result was the coordinator getting the boot, and rightly so this year. 

 

Gus has clearly shown he can set personal opinions aside and make the necessary business decisions to help the team.  He fired Fisch last year and upgraded that spot.  The hope is we see similar improvement with the coaching change this year.  Remember, almost no one here cheered for the Olson hire last year.  That worked out pretty well for the team.  If Gus gets it right this time, the defense should show similar improvement.  If that happens, this team will very quickly rise up and become relevant again.

 

Despite their rankings?  That's not how this works.   Headed in the right direction?  That's not what I would call it.

 

In 2012 they allowed 27.8 PPG.  In 2013, his first year, they allowed 28.1 PPG, in 2014 they allowed 25.8 PPG, in 2015 they allowed 28 PPG.  Do you think going from 28.1 PPG to 25.8 PPG enough improvement?

 

As far as yards go: 2012 they allowed 380.5 yards per game, 2013 they allowed 379.4, in 2014 they allowed 370.8, in 2015 they allowed 375.  Do you consider going from 379.4 to 370.8 is enough improvement?

 

In 2012 this team had 20 sacks, 2013 they had 31 , 2014 they had 45, 2015 they had 36.

 

2012 had 12 INTs, 2013 had 11 , 2014 had 6, 2015 had 9.

 

Yes, no way could we fire a guy after all that improvement.  Oh wait, despite the rankings.  The things that matter.

 

I see it as Gus has struggled to hire assistants and fire them after the fact.  Babich never should have been here to begin with.  That was a poor hire as DC.

 

Fisch was a horrible hire as OC.  We got stuck with him for two years.

 

We're going to have to agree to disagree here.

 

 

Quote:Based on the improvements we saw with the defense in 2014 as the season progressed, there was nothing to indicate that would not continue in 2015.  They somehow managed to manufacture a pass rush in 2014 with almost no legitimate pass rush guys on the roster.  So, to say Babich was a "consistently BAD" coordinator is a load of crap.  In fact, it's funny because many here were critical of Babich in 2014 because they had to scheme to get a pass rush,and they made significant improvements in that regard that season compared to 2013.  Apparently, coaching to get to the QB by calling plays that worked to the strengths of his guys in 2014 was a bad thing.  But, when they did the same thing this past season to try to get a pass rush, and it didn't net the same results in 2015, it was once again a bad thing, and a lack of decent coaching.

 

It's amazing how folks like you can pretty much play both sides of the fence to complain about coaches...or players...or front office personnel...or the owner...or the stadium....or anything else you complain about because you know better.  Why is it that none of you are actually working for a team in the league with this overabundance of football brilliance?  You should really consider compiling your body of work from this message board, crafting a resume, and sending it out to all 32 teams.

 

It is not a load of crap.  It is fact.  I don't care if they got a lot of sacks.  Sacks are an empty stat if the rest of the stats don't correlate with them.  If the sacks don't come with consistent pressure, they don't mean "crap" to me.

 

How in the world am I playing both sides of anything?  You're the one notorious for that around here.  

 

I know you're lost when you have to resort for that last argument.  If you can call it an argument.  NFL coaches, GMs, owners, are wrong ALL THE TIME. Fans are wrong and they are wrong a lot.  They are also right at times.  Many wanted Gene Smith gone well before others (myself included) came along on that.  There are many other examples on this board.

 

I don't get paid millions to be right like they do.  We offer our opinion, on a messageboard, and it's not our fault you can't handle it.

 

I don't know why I wasted my time.

Didn't read, doesn't matter. We aren't going anywhere based on ongoing pattern, in spite of incoming addition, unless the unforeseen occurs. Or, we can waste space, philosophizing, dissecting...

They are putting a lot of pressure on a kid coming off an acl injury who's never played a down. They missed on luke and he was 2nd overall. If Dave is smart he will get a proven pass rusher in free agency