Quote:When you see a coaching staff that keep running the same failed defense play after play, week after week, it doesn't take a rocket scientist (or a football professional) to know that there's a problem with coaching.
Common sense would tell you the players aren't good enough to execute the plays.
A clipboard doesn't magically improve the talent. Not unless you have a very vivid imagination.
Quote:Common sense would tell you the players aren't good enough to execute the plays.
A clipboard doesn't magically improve the talent. Not unless you have a very vivid imagination.
I've been paying specific attention to defenses in the playoffs, and they run the exact same packages in the same situations our defense does, and they're more successful. It really is the players on that side of the ball who are lacking, specifically the pass rush.
Quote:When you see a coaching staff that keep running the same failed defense play after play, week after week, it doesn't take a rocket scientist (or a football professional) to know that there's a problem with coaching.
No doubt the talent is also a factor, but plenty of defenses with less talent and more injuries to their starters got better results. Do you really think the Jags defensive personnel was worse than the Ravens? The Bears? The Eagles?
As far as Bradley vs. Babich, either Bradley had a hand in the defense, or he should have after seeing how bad it was. There was also the decision to demote House after he was beaten in single coverage by the only good receiver on Houston. Babich needed to go, but Bradley was also largely at fault.
They had major changes to the defensive philosophy over the course of the season. They went from a team that relied on dropping back in coverage to a team that relied on blitzing. The only thing that stayed the same was that the players were unable to execute regardless of what was called.
I'm not saying the coaches have no fault, I thought Babich was horrible in some situational play calls, but lets not be disingenuous and pretend like the coaching staff didn't try all sorts of things over the course of the season.
The biggest weakness was the inability of our front four to get consistent pressure on the QB. Like we saw, it doesn't matter what scheme you run, if you can't pressure the QB with your front four, an NFL offense is going to find a way to pick you apart.
Quote:Why would we grant permission to a division rival
Because you can't refuse a coach the opportunity to interview for a head job elsewhere, period. You can block position coaches from interviewing for coordinator jobs elsewhere, though it's considered bad form to do so, but you can't block an assistant coach from interviewing for a head job.
Quote:Doug Marrone "walked out of his team" after a 9-7 season. How can you call somebody with a winning record a bad coach?
Because he's a douche, everyone knows he's a douche, and his players hated him because he's a douche. He's a solid OL coach and coordinator, but there's a reason that even though players lamented the way he left Buffalo, there were very few (if any) tweets lamenting the fact that he was gone.
Quote:I'll ask again. If he's such a good coach then why was Blake the most sacked QB in the league?
Because his left tackle improved to merely average over the course of the year, his left guard was a turnstile, his center would look good one play then snap it eight feet over Blake's head the next, his right guard was a rookie and his right tackle was, while solid overall, inconsistent. I think solving the left guard and center positions and getting Linder back will more or less fix the OL, but the interior of the line was a mess most of the year, not because of his coaching, but because the players weren't there.
Quote:Interesting how Marrone is praised for going 9-7, yet Mularkey is berated for doing the exact same thing for the exact same franchise. The icing on the cake being, neither did as much here as they did there.
And, ironically enough, they both quit in Buffalo.
Quote:Common sense would tell you the players aren't good enough to execute the plays.
A clipboard doesn't magically improve the talent. Not unless you have a very vivid imagination.
Quote:I've been paying specific attention to defenses in the playoffs, and they run the exact same packages in the same situations our defense does, and they're more successful. It really is the players on that side of the ball who are lacking, specifically the pass rush.
You're both missing the point. Sure, if you have 11 Pro Bowlers every scheme will work. The Jags don't have 11 Pro Bowlers on defense.
The point was that the Jags coaching staff kept using the same packages that had failed week after week. Those required a level of player competence that didn't exist. Would a different scheme be more successful? Who knows? Bradley/Babich never even tried.
The players aren't great. That's not being argued. I would argue that the players on defense are better than 31st in the NFL, better than the Bears, Ravens, and Eagles, to name three teams that had better results. Given the quality of our opponents this year, especially at QB where the Jags faced numerous backups and rookies, the Jags defense has no excuse for being 31st.
Quote:You're both missing the point. Sure, if you have 11 Pro Bowlers every scheme will work. The Jags don't have 11 Pro Bowlers on defense.
The point was that the Jags coaching staff kept using the same packages that had failed week after week. Those required a level of player competence that didn't exist. Would a different scheme be more successful? Who knows? Bradley/Babich never even tried.
The players aren't great. That's not being argued. I would argue that the players on defense are better than 31st in the NFL, better than the Bears, Ravens, and Eagles, to name three teams that had better results. Given the quality of our opponents this year, especially at QB where the Jags faced numerous backups and rookies, the Jags defense has no excuse for being 31st.
The thing is, I don't know that this is true. It simply can't. A quick eye-test tells us we went from a blitz-avert to blitz-heavy defense as the season went on. I don't think anyone will argue that point, right?
So here's the thing when you blitz...you have less players to cover. Furthermore, we've seen this team blitz linebackers, we've seen it blitz nickel corners, and we've even seen it blitz safeties. Do you see where I'm getting at with this?
Fundamentally, you just cannot send multiple blitzes using different personnel and not really change your package or even your scheme for that play. To do so would leave significant glaring holes on that defense. To think that we're always running some kind of press-bail cover 3 on the back end (which really is the calling card of this defense), its just not possible.
When your core problem is inability to rush the passer, it trickles down to the rest of the defense. Because you can't rush, you have to blitz. Because you have to blitz, the coverage has to be good enough to allow the blitz to get there. And when the ball does go out of the qb's hand quick and to an outlet receiver/running back, your defense needs to be able to tackle before they get the first down.
We can't rush....
We had problems with coverage...
And we had problems with wrong angles and bad tackling....
No scheme can fix it when you have a combination of these three things occurring in some manner or fashion
Quote:Because his left tackle improved to merely average over the course of the year, his left guard was a turnstile, his center would look good one play then snap it eight feet over Blake's head the next, his right guard was a rookie and his right tackle was, while solid overall, inconsistent. I think solving the left guard and center positions and getting Linder back will more or less fix the OL, but the interior of the line was a mess most of the year, not because of his coaching, but because the players weren't there.
Again, that doesn't prove he's a good coach. At best his grade is "Inconclusive" because of the O-line struggles.
I wish this guy would get hired somewhere so this thread disappears off the front page already.
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"Blitz-heavy"? Really? I'll argue that point. Maybe the Jags blitzed a little more as the season went on, but it was not a significant increase. They still rushed just four on most pass plays. The Jags defense was 31st in 3rd down percentage, and then only because the Giants collapsed in week 17. I watched the pass rush. There were very few 3rd down plays where the Jags rushed 5 or more.
I agree with most of this, but I don't agree that we had problems with coverage, at least not as far as personnel. If you call playing 10-yards off the receiver a problem in coverage, that's on the coaches. House and Colvin were fine when they didn't have to cover all day. The safeties and LBs weren't great in coverage, but not as bad as people make them out to be. There are probably fans of 30 teams who claim their team can't cover the TE or RBs.
If the Jags blitz and get to the QB with reasonable speed, the Jags CBs can cover well enough to prevent a completion. Sure you risk get burned doing that. But if you're giving the opposition all day if you don't blitz it's a risk that should be taken. Look at it from the others side; how many times did the Jags beat a blitz for a big play compared to giving Bortles time to throw?
And it's more than just blitzing. When a team has one particular receiver who is much better than the rest, why just single-cover him all game? Hopkins? Gates? Walker? Gates was wide open in the end zone twice!!!
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According to the Houston/Jags article, we blitzed over 70% of the time on 3rd and medium. I consider that a high enough amount (and it might be higher since I think their stats were cumulative for the season, and they noted the fact that we have been more aggressive since the first time we played the Texans).
As for the single-cover philosophy, I agree some of that was questionable. Gates killed Cyp, but two years ago when we played them in SD, Cyp did a good job on Gates. House did "ok" on Hopkins, but they definitely schemed him a lot a 2nd time to get him open.
I'll also disagree that our LBs are good enough in coverage. IMO, they along with the safeties were a big reason why this passing defense struggled.
My point is...we tried just about everything. To blame just the coaches and say we kept running the same thing over and over and refused to change...well, that's just blatantly false.
We did try everything, but the problem is whatever we tried, while it helped one thing...it also exposed another weakness (because we have weaknesses at each level of the defense)
<a class="" href='https://twitter.com/PSchrags'>
Peter Schrager
@PSchrags </a> <a class="" href='https://twitter.com/PSchrags/status/686700360547733504'>57s57 seconds ago</a>
<p class="" style="color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Im told a name that's very much in play for the NYG job is Doug Marrone. If Detroit HC job opens up, add Marrone's name to that list too.
Quote:
<div style="color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Peter Schrager @PSchrags 57s57 seconds ago
<p style="color:rgb(41,47,51);font-family:'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Im told a name that's very much in play for the NYG job is Doug Marrone. If Detroit HC job opens up, add Marrone's name to that list too.
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If the Lions HC opens up, I agree that Doug Marrone would be a realistic possibility. I don't think new G.M. Bob Quinn is going to want to hire a HC w/o NFL HC experience in 2016, because Quinn has never been an NFL G.M. Lions consultant, 3 time NFL G.M. Ernie Accorsi, stressed the importance from his perspective of not having a rookie G.M. and rookie HC. Being that Accorsi was the football person in the G.M. interview process, my guess is Quinn told him, the Ford Family, and Team President Rod Wood that he wouldn't hire a rookie HC in 2016. Time will tell.
Quote:Again, that doesn't prove he's a good coach. At best his grade is "Inconclusive" because of the O-line struggles.
Think of it this way:
You own a computer factory. You need a manager to run the factory for you on a day-to-day basis. You're considering the department managers from GPUs and motherboards for the role. The GPU manager knows GPUs inside out and can fine-tune the processes there to give you an outstanding product, but he isn't exactly polished when it comes to producing RAM, motherboards and power supplies, and isn't the best at finding the most economical and effective way to put everything together into a high-performing computer in the most efficient fashion.
Your motherboard manager, on the other hand, is very good at what he does with motherboards, but no one thinks he's the best motherboard engineer in the company by any stretch of the imagination. You also know that your motherboard manager has a great understanding of what it takes to build a solid, high-performing computer. He can't walk in and build a CPU better than the CPU manager could, but he does know how to put the computer together in a way that it will get the absolute max that it can out of that CPU, and out of all the other parts.
If you're hiring that plant manager, who do you want? The Joe Bugel of graphics cards, or the Doug Marrone of motherboards?
Quote:You're both missing the point. Sure, if you have 11 Pro Bowlers every scheme will work. The Jags don't have 11 Pro Bowlers on defense.
The point was that the Jags coaching staff kept using the same packages that had failed week after week. Those required a level of player competence that didn't exist. Would a different scheme be more successful? Who knows? Bradley/Babich never even tried.
The players aren't great. That's not being argued. I would argue that the players on defense are better than 31st in the NFL, better than the Bears, Ravens, and Eagles, to name three teams that had better results. Given the quality of our opponents this year, especially at QB where the Jags faced numerous backups and rookies, the Jags defense has no excuse for being 31st.
WHat's your basis for arguing the current group of defenders are better than 31st?
WHo are the best players on this defense?
Senderrick Marks, who was recovering from a torn ACL to start the year, then missed the entire second half of the year with a torn tricep?
MLB Paul Poszlusny, who has been excellent against the run but long a liability in man coverage?
OLB Telvin Smith, who flashes speed and big play ability, but is undersized?
Not sure where the rest of these better than 31st players are.
Colvin is decent. House is decent. Miller is decent. All three would be better with better players around them, most notably with a competent pass rusher or two.
Quote:Think of it this way:
You own a computer factory. You need a manager to run the factory for you on a day-to-day basis. You're considering the department managers from GPUs and motherboards for the role. The GPU manager knows GPUs inside out and can fine-tune the processes there to give you an outstanding product, but he isn't exactly polished when it comes to producing RAM, motherboards and power supplies, and isn't the best at finding the most economical and effective way to put everything together into a high-performing computer in the most efficient fashion.
Your motherboard manager, on the other hand, is very good at what he does with motherboards, but no one thinks he's the best motherboard engineer in the company by any stretch of the imagination. You also know that your motherboard manager has a great understanding of what it takes to build a solid, high-performing computer. He can't walk in and build a CPU better than the CPU manager could, but he does know how to put the computer together in a way that it will get the absolute max that it can out of that CPU, and out of all the other parts.
If you're hiring that plant manager, who do you want? The Joe Bugel of graphics cards, or the Doug Marrone of motherboards?
I get the analogy, but in that instance the motherboards would be a crap product that no one wants to buy. That's not the manager's fault necessarily since it's the developers that engineer the product, but with him only being the manager for a short time and producing one of the worst motherboards, it's difficult in my opinion to conclude that he's a good manager.
personally, I hope marrone stays another year and is the backup plan in case Gus doesn't get it done.
I'm not sure there will be a lot of better candidates next year even though the jaguars are a team on the rise.
a lot of people talk crap about marrone but he didn't get along with upper management with the bills because they wanted to force him to play EJ Manuel and he thought Orton was the better option. Clearly seems like the right move and through the turmoil he still lead the bills to a good season that year.
I think its just a case of misconception and that he would be a very good head coach....my 2¢.
Marrone's treatment of his resignation in Buffalo leads me to believe he'd be a poor fit with the Giants and all of the round-the-clock hyper-scrutiny that comes with that job. I don't see him being "OK" with all of that visibility. Just a hunch. I bet he's eyeing a different/smaller market team.
Quote:They had major changes to the defensive philosophy over the course of the season. They went from a team that relied on dropping back in coverage to a team that relied on blitzing. The only thing that stayed the same was that the players were unable to execute regardless of what was called.
I'm not saying the coaches have no fault, I thought Babich was horrible in some situational play calls, but lets not be disingenuous and pretend like the coaching staff didn't try all sorts of things over the course of the season.
The biggest weakness was the inability of our front four to get consistent pressure on the QB. Like we saw, it doesn't matter what scheme you run, if you can't pressure the QB with your front four, an NFL offense is going to find a way to pick you apart.
Think about what you just wrote, right there.
You said that it would be disingenuous to say that the coaches didn't try different things, but then turned around and said getting consistent pressure from the front four was the main problem.
Now, I'm not saying we never blitzed. In fact we did blitz, on occasion. But here's the problem, as you and everyone else has identified, we couldn't get pressure rushing four. In no game that I watched did we bring pressure on every passing down.
So how can we say the coaches tried everything? Bringing an occasional blitz is not the same as planning a game where the entire game was designed to bring as much pressure as possible.
As far as marrone goes, I have a feeling he's gonna be here for the 2016 season...
Quote:WHat's your basis for arguing the current group of defenders are better than 31st?
WHo are the best players on this defense?
Senderrick Marks, who was recovering from a torn ACL to start the year, then missed the entire second half of the year with a torn tricep?
MLB Paul Poszlusny, who has been excellent against the run but long a liability in man coverage?
OLB Telvin Smith, who flashes speed and big play ability, but is undersized?
Not sure where the rest of these better than 31st players are.
Colvin is decent. House is decent. Miller is decent. All three would be better with better players around them, most notably with a competent pass rusher or two.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/te...roster.htm
Above is a link to the starting roster for the Chicago Bears. Take a look at the defense. Do you really think the Jags roster was worse? The Bears were 20th in points allowed and t
hey didn't play against the QB rabble the Jags faced. They played Aaron Rodgers twice, Stafford + Megatron twice, and Adrian Peterson twice. They held Rivers and the Chargers to 19 points. In San Diego!
I'd say Telvin Smith is a Pro Bowl quality starter, who cares if he's "undersized." Poz, Odrick, Colvin, Miller, and House are all above average. Skuta is better than most 3rd LBs on 4-3 teams.
Fowler and Marks both were out with injuries, but do you really think other teams didn't face injuries to their starters? Alualu and Branch/Clemons are good compared to most backups.
Could the Jags use an upgrade at both safety spots? Sure. There are 30 other teams that don't have Thomas and Chancellor as their starters. Only one had a worse defense than the Jags.
Not sure why people give Marrone flack for using his out clause. It was in his contract so he was very well within his rights to take it. It was obviously there for a reason and there was likely something going on we don't know about behind the scenes. It's not often a coach goes 9-7 to just leave.