Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:Defenders were taking horrific angles, not wrapping up tackles, and getting caught completely out of position way too much yesterday.  We got almost no QB pressure when it mattered.  I'm convinced a team could have 3rd and 99 and they'd be able to convert.  3rd and long is usually a time when defenses pin their ears back and go after the QB.  Not our guys.  They fall asleep after rolling out the red carpet.

 

I've edited your post to just focus on this one thought you had...

 

I think this is the ultimate indictment of the Jaguars coaching staff.  We are just so damn close.  And yet, when things matter the most is when we look the most lost.  To me, the angles lost, the lack of pressure, the lack of placing players in best positions comes full square to coaching.

 

Again, I'm not gonna say that the talent is not lacking.  We have holes all throughout the defense.  The DL is a level of terrible that it kills me.  But then-- why rush 4 only, when you know they suck?  And when you do decide to blitz--  Why not bring Poz to blitz and let Telvin drop into coverage?  I mean there are simple fixes here.  Fixes that would have changed the outlook of this entire season...

 

It's hard to re-watch this game.  It really is.  There were so many plays where the D just looked like they had no concept of what the situation was.  That's on the coaches.  If you want to keep Gus around...  You better get rid of Babich.  But hey, at the end of the day, if the staff doesn't realize they gotta change the defensive philosophy, what does it really matter?

It was painful to see him go against convention and chase the 2 PT conversion after the second touchdown and then not try another.  No situational awareness.

 

EDIT:

Of course this is all easy from my couch.  I think Olsen is doing good overall but I sure wish we had better red zone a week prior when playing San Diego.

Quote:At key spots...maybe...especially DE/edge rusher

 

Look at the Chargers last three weeks.

 

vs. Kansas City they lost 33-3.  Kansas City has at least one good pass rusher, maybe two in Tamba Hali and Justin Houston.

vs Jacksonville, the Bolts won 31-25.  Jaguars have no viable pass rushers and could not exploit the Bolts' injuries along the OL.

vs. Denver, they lost 17-3.  Denver has a strong pass rush and a good secondary.

 

You are right on Babich.  But there is only so much a defensive coach can do without the talent.

 

Your are comparing the Jags defense to the #1 and #7 defenses in the NFL. I'm just saying our personnel is better than 30th. And San Diego is a bit of an outlier. The Jags defense just gave up four TDs to the 2-9 tacks. In any case, I don't think playing a soft zone and letting their best receiver Gates catch two TD passes in two minutes was anything but a coaching failure.


 

It's not like the Bears, Ravens, Colts or Eagles have great pass rushers or defensive players in general, yet they all give up fewer points. Branch and Clemons weren't THAT bad in previous years, and Ryan Davis still doesn't start while Chris Smith is inactive. 


 

Coaching is expected to develop players. Other than Marks and Abry Jones I haven't seen much, if any, improvement in the defensive players since they were first on the team. No improvement in Cyprien, Evans, or Gratz. Telvin's improvement was mostly last year. He led the NFL in tackles in two of the last three weeks. I would have listed McCray, but ... ???

 

Last season the poor defense was blamed on being worn out from too many 3 and outs. That excuse is now gone.

Just Remember, in 2002 Tom Coughlin looked bad as a coach, he had a quote to the effect of "the talent level on the expansion team of '95 is better than the roster we have at the moment, yes i truly believe that" in 1999 with actual players they were 14-2 and on the cusp of the Super Bowl. now is coughlin a bad coach? the 2 superbowls in New York would suggest he's not. I don't think Bradley's a bad coach I think we need to give him more pieces. If you were asked to play Chess with a King, 3 pawns, a knight and asked to take on an opponent with a full board of pieces, you'd lose almost every time unless you get real creative and play mistake free (which isn't possible with the youth on this squad)

 

I say we keep Bradley, he can coach the technique and tell a player what to do and when he's in their ear they're probably pristine in practice, but he can't make them execute on the field when the lights are on. The fact is that Players WANT!!!! to play for Bradley, his culture has a reputation. Mack wanted to sign here (and probably will when he opts out after this season) I think Bruce Irvin is out of Seattle (they don't have the cap space to retain him) and Bradley as his first coach and having the same scheme he's run his entire career to this point. it makes sense on paper and we have the cap space to do it. not a lot of players sign up to go to a place with a lot of turmoil and turnover. Gus was the coach we needed to put together an environment where NFL players wanted to work despite losing and underperformance. I think he deserves another year at the very least.

 

Also on Myers. Scobee was rather shaky as a rookie, i remember him missing chip shots and other easy makes early on in his career. Myers has leg and can hit from distance, he's a rookie and still has nerves. let him settle down and work on it, we could make out like bandits on the kid if he can get a rhythm down going into next season. If we're in a position to draft Roberto Aguayo from Florida State then im not opposed to it, best kicker in the NCAA and i'm all for competition/accountability. but i think we're being hasty, patience will let us grow and be deadly. Imagine some of those mid 2000's teams if we had Coughlin (nothing agaisnt Del Rio of course)

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I say we keep Bradley, he can coach the technique and tell a player what to do and when he's in their ear they're probably pristine in practice,

 

This right here is wishful thinking.  did you watch the loafing going on out there by starters?  The 80 yard TD run by Marriotta has at least 2 players that were going half speed as MM was flying past them.  Colvin especially was jogging towards the play.  

 

The D lacks drive.  The D lacks motivation.  The team lacks hustle.  

 

Zone defense makes players lazy.  Repeating to your team that the process is what is important and winning isn't make players lack focus and lack toughness.  We see this every week.  But we all try to tell ourselves that it's the talent that is lacking.

 

Maybe the talent is lacking because the coaching sucks.  I mean, isn't that at least something to consider?

Maybe you should try to resign ?

Quote:Just Remember, in 2002 Tom Coughlin looked bad as a coach, he had a quote to the effect of "the talent level on the expansion team of '95 is better than the roster we have at the moment, yes i truly believe that" in 1999 with actual players they were 14-2 and on the cusp of the Super Bowl. now is coughlin a bad coach? the 2 superbowls in New York would suggest he's not. I don't think Bradley's a bad coach I think we need to give him more pieces. If you were asked to play Chess with a King, 3 pawns, a knight and asked to take on an opponent with a full board of pieces, you'd lose almost every time unless you get real creative and play mistake free (which isn't possible with the youth on this squad)

 

I say we keep Bradley, he can coach the technique and tell a player what to do and when he's in their ear they're probably pristine in practice, but he can't make them execute on the field when the lights are on. The fact is that Players WANT!!!! to play for Bradley, his culture has a reputation. Mack wanted to sign here (and probably will when he opts out after this season) I think Bruce Irvin is out of Seattle (they don't have the cap space to retain him) and Bradley as his first coach and having the same scheme he's run his entire career to this point. it makes sense on paper and we have the cap space to do it. not a lot of players sign up to go to a place with a lot of turmoil and turnover. Gus was the coach we needed to put together an environment where NFL players wanted to work despite losing and underperformance. I think he deserves another year at the very least.

 

Also on Myers. Scobee was rather shaky as a rookie, i remember him missing chip shots and other easy makes early on in his career. Myers has leg and can hit from distance, he's a rookie and still has nerves. let him settle down and work on it, we could make out like bandits on the kid if he can get a rhythm down going into next season. If we're in a position to draft Roberto Aguayo from Florida State then im not opposed to it, best kicker in the NCAA and i'm all for competition/accountability. but i think we're being hasty, patience will let us grow and be deadly. Imagine some of those mid 2000's teams if we had Coughlin (nothing agaisnt Del Rio of course)

 

That chess analogy is great except when the other offense is just as talent deficient as your defense, yet they put up prolific numbers and look unstoppable. I have no problem getting steamrolled by good offenses, but to get destroyed by a rookie QB is something else. Dont even get me started on that 40 year old qb, or ej manuel, or another rookie qb in winston, or injured Fitz. The pattern of making currently so so QBs look as good as your franchise QB is pathetic.

Quote:Just Remember, in 2002 Tom Coughlin looked bad as a coach, he had a quote to the effect of "the talent level on the expansion team of '95 is better than the roster we have at the moment, yes i truly believe that" in 1999 with actual players they were 14-2 and on the cusp of the Super Bowl. now is coughlin a bad coach? the 2 superbowls in New York would suggest he's not. I don't think Bradley's a bad coach I think we need to give him more pieces. If you were asked to play Chess with a King, 3 pawns, a knight and asked to take on an opponent with a full board of pieces, you'd lose almost every time unless you get real creative and play mistake free (which isn't possible with the youth on this squad)

 

But the Jags opponents aren't playing with a board full of pieces. The Jags played two games against backup QBs, three against rookie QBs, and two more against starting QBs who were signed as street free agents this year. That's seven of 12 games where the opponents were limited at most important position on the field.


Also, several of the opponents were playing with makeshift offensive lines. That's the time you blitz, because confusion is your friend in that case. Did the Jags take advantage of that? Nope. In your chess example that would be like using a trading strategy when you are down a piece.


 

The Jags don't need to be mistake free to win. No team is mistake free. They just need to take advantage of the opponents' weaknesses, and defend against their strengths. Do the Jags even pay lip service to game planning?

Quote:This right here is wishful thinking.  did you watch the loafing going on out there by starters?  The 80 yard TD run by Marriotta has at least 2 players that were going half speed as MM was flying past them.  Colvin especially was jogging towards the play.  

 

This team needs an entire revamp at HC/DC/OC/ST.  None of them are good enough.  

 

Gus has hired average (Olson) and below average (everyone else) coordinators since the start.  It's something that some pointed out early on and thought would be a part of his downfall.

 

Time for them all to go.  This team, offense in particular, is talented.  The players aren't perfect and there are room for upgrades but this team should look better than it does.  It's embarrassing.

The other thing about this D---

 

 

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Bingo...  Colvin was jogging untill he realized--- Oh crap!  This guy might score a TD!!!  Then he turns on his after burners...  Imagine if he was actually hustling from start to finish!

 

Colvin is the dude at the very top of the screen, just jogging at the very beginning of this .gif  

 

You see Colvin in the is .gif at the 30 yard line loafing.  This is your defense, folks...  Lazy...  

 

Edit:  If anyone has the DVR for this play...  It is even more evident...

Dwayne Gratz was barely moving.  He's so slow.  Also, Davon House is slow too. We have a team of slow DBs: Cyprien, House, and Gratz are all slow.

 

These are three guys the team needs to be good.  House was a high profile FA, Cyprien a 2nd rounder, Gratz a 3rd rounder... none are very good.

Quote:This right here is wishful thinking.  did you watch the loafing going on out there by starters?  The 80 yard TD run by Marriotta has at least 2 players that were going half speed as MM was flying past them.  Colvin especially was jogging towards the play.  

 

The D lacks drive.  The D lacks motivation.  The team lacks hustle.  

 

Zone defense makes players lazy.  Repeating to your team that the process is what is important and winning isn't make players lack focus and lack toughness.  We see this every week.  But we all try to tell ourselves that it's the talent that is lacking.

 

Maybe the talent is lacking because the coaching sucks.  I mean, isn't that at least something to consider?

Colvin had a sore ankle and didn't start the game. Had the tackling and play of the replacements/backups not been absolutely atrocious he wouldn't have seen the field this week at all. He was forced into action despite not being 100% because they needed to get something going on defense.

 

We need better players with solid fundamentals. they also need to be healthy Ex: Colvin, and im sure some need conditioning but the real problem on that 87 yarder was that we rushed 6, couldn't maintain lanes or get pressure. that's alarming and kinda speaks to my point about the talent level, if we sign Irvin, draft a pass rusher in the top 3 rounds and get Fowler back this defense could look vastly improved especially with Marks at close to full strength. that can't be undestated as well.

Telvin in must run a 4.3 game speed. You caught up to mariota.

Quote:The other thing about this D---

 

 

 

Bingo...  Colvin was jogging untill he realized--- Oh crap!  This guy might score a TD!!!  Then he turns on his after burners...  Imagine if he was actually hustling from start to finish!

 

Colvin is the dude at the very top of the screen, just jogging at the very beginning of this .gif  

 

You see Colvin in the is .gif at the 30 yard line loafing.  This is your defense, folks...  Lazy...  

 

Edit:  If anyone has the DVR for this play...  It is even more evident...

In Colvin's defense, they weren't even sure if he was going to be able to play leading up to the game because of an ankle injury.

Colvin was the only guy who got close to making the tackle. Gratz was the real failure here other than the pass rush completely failing.

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Odrick...a DL was hustling to chase. Telvin sprinted downfield despite there being a Titan player in front of him who could have blocked him. Evans was after the play. Gratz was just typical Gratz and took the wrong angle. Cyprien is chasing from the backside.The only one who looked "slow" was Colvin, who was on the other side of the field. Yet you find this clip to indict the coaching staff?

Quote:Colvin was the only guy who got close to making the tackle. Gratz was the real failure here other than the pass rush completely failing.

 

That's the point though.  He was loafing untill he realized he had to make a play.  It's a microcosm of the entire team.

 

Oh and regarding the ankle injury, apparently that ankle was pretty OK, because he made up yardage once he actually started hustling.

 

I like Colvin, don't get me wrong.  But the play was just lazy all around.  To say otherwise is trying to defend the indefensible.  MM isn't that fast, we'd been covering the dude all game long.  It's not like that play was the first time he scrambled.  MM scrambled at least 3 times before that play, and we stuffed him every time for short yardage.

so if it's the talent level, who do we blame for assembling this cast of characters on defense????

 

 

hmmmm