Quote:I was speaking on the matter of injuries and being a long-term true franchise QB.
I do not believe MM is this.
Does being hit and sacked a lot affect stats, yeah... and any QB getting hit too much won't be able to play well.
But to your points... someone has already debunked this "garbage time stats" myth about Bortles.
But I'll admit he still has growing to do as a QB. Which is good since he's only in year 3 (and left college early).
Mariota has hit his ceiling, imo. And won't stay healthy enough to prove me wrong, imo.
how do you decide who has hit their ceiling and who hasnt?
why has mm hit his ceiling already but blake has room to grow?
Quote:I was speaking on the matter of injuries and being a long-term true franchise QB.
I do not believe MM is this.
Does being hit and sacked a lot affect stats, yeah... and any QB getting hit too much won't be able to play well.
But to your points... someone has already debunked this "garbage time stats" myth about Bortles.
But I'll admit he still has growing to do as a QB. Which is good since he's only in year 3 (and left college early).
Mariota has hit his ceiling, imo. And won't stay healthy enough to prove me wrong, imo.
I will say that in BB's favor, he improved well from year 1 to 2, his rookie year was challenging to say the least. What is his ceiling? Physically he is as gifted as anyone out there. The question is can he go through the progressions, make better decisions in that respect. I still see that similar to college, that presnap he is very good, if he knows before he gets the snap where to go he is very effective. However, when he has to decide in play where to go he struggles. Now is this something that can be learned and picked up or is more of a gifted mental talent? That will ultimately decide his ceiling. I think a good OC and system can minimize the need to have to run through the progressions as often, but against good D's you can't avoid it. I think he could really excel in a Kubiak style system, Flacco who I see as BB's floor had his best year in that system, and he isn't nearly as mobile as BB.
For MM, I am reminded of what Herm Edwards said, hurt players stay hurt. This will always be an issue with him unless he minimizes the hits he takes.
Throwing in Luck, Luck has the highest ceiling of anyone in the league, but he has some bad habits that could ultimately limit his ability. Whether he can shake these remains to be seen, he holds the ball too long and in turn takes a bunch of hits, (not sure but I think I remember hearing over his first 3 seasons he took more hits than any other QB in the league) you can only take so many hits before you start to miss games, and last year it finally caught up to him. See Big Ben, if Luck doesn't stop taking the hits he will continue to miss games. Can he learn to get rid of it? Also he takes too many big risks leading to the High INT totals, he seemed to break out of it two years ago, but it remains to be seen if that was just an aberration. AL is the far superior decision maker of the bunch, and will go through his progressions, his problem is that he doesnt get rid of it enough to avoid the hits, and that he thinks he is better than he actually is.
Quote:how do you decide who has hit their ceiling and who hasnt?
why has mm hit his ceiling already but blake has room to grow?
Because of growth patterns of the QBs?
Bortles as a college QB, very raw, as a rookie NFL QB displaced Henne
showed tremendous growth to his second year.
Mariota is the same QB he was his junior year at Oregon.
I don't "decide" anything. I often use the term "in my opinion".
You sure are getting stirred up about it though. That's pretty cool.
Quote:Because of growth patterns of the QBs?
Bortles as a college QB, very raw, as a rookie NFL QB displaced Henne
showed tremendous growth to his second year.
Mariota is the same QB he was his junior year at Oregon.
I don't "decide" anything. I often use the term "in my opinion".
You sure are getting stirred up about it though. That's pretty cool.
displacing henne means nothing hes terrible, and bortles rookie year was terrible too. The only growth weve seen is from year 1 to year 2 but that growth is inflated by his stats, it was good but tremendous growth is a reach. Mariota played 1 season, to say hes done is asinine. No one is getting stirred up this is just a discussion.
I don't know why I am getting into this, but Brady and Manning might have the same measurables, but they are 2 of the great pocket passers in the history of the league. Which is to say,they rarely got hit.
MM has yet to show he can play from the pocket with anything near their ability. It wouldn't be a surprise if he never comes close to those guys, they are, after all, all time greats.
If he doesn't play like them he will take more hits. His size thus becomes an issue.
That being said, I am still reserving judgement on MM until after this year because year 2 is when we see if these guys really have what it takes.
Quote:I don't know why I am getting into this, but Brady and Manning might have the same measurables, but they are 2 of the great pocket passers in the history of the league. Which is to say,they rarely got hit.
MM has yet to show he can play from the pocket with anything near their ability. It wouldn't be a surprise if he never comes close to those guys, they are, after all, all time greats.
If he doesn't play like them he will take more hits. His size thus becomes an issue.
That being said, I am still reserving judgement on MM until after this year because year 2 is when we see if these guys really have what it takes.
Finally a level head. I expect MM to have a solid year. He has a better O-line, better RBs, and some serviceable receivers.
Lol this thread was pretty epic last year.
I think with the emphasis on the run game, the tacks deficiency at qb is going to be hidden very well. They've basicallyb conceded that MM is a game manager. Which is fine and can get the job done, but has some severe limitations.
Quote:Lol this thread was pretty epic last year.
I think with the emphasis on the run game, the tacks deficiency at qb is going to be hidden very well. They've basicallyb conceded that MM is a game manager. Which is fine and can get the job done, but has some severe limitations.
Hes not really a game manager, mularkey just runs an archaic system and they cant draft receivers.
Quote:Hes not really a game manager, mularkey just runs an archaic system and they cant draft receivers.
With all due respect... That sounds like the typical excuse list for why a QB is a game manager... At the end of the day, a very good/great QB will transcend all that and make it clear he's a prolific QB.
I guess we'll see what happens with MM
Quote:With all due respect... That sounds like the typical excuse list for why a QB is a game manager... At the end of the day, a very good/great QB will transcend all that and make it clear he's a prolific QB.
I guess we'll see what happens with MM
I mean he played one season but showed a lot of great things so its not like hes putting nothing on tape. But system means a ton and mularkeys system wants to run 60 times a game like its 1993 so well see what he does with it.
Quote:With all due respect... That sounds like the typical excuse list for why a QB is a game manager... At the end of the day, a very good/great QB will transcend all that and make it clear he's a prolific QB.
I guess we'll see what happens with MM
Tom Brady wasn't a 'prolific QB' until his 8th season, 7th as a starter. Systems matter.
Its an insult to BB to even compare him to MM lol..
Quote:Its an insult to BB to even compare him to MM lol..
No it isn't. Mariota is good. Him and Bortles play complete opposite styles so it is kind of hard to compare them.
MM, BB, & Luck still need to prove they can read a defense & operate an offense according to plan.
You can tell Andrew Luck can't read a defense by the fact that he holds the ball too long. Well, either he can't read a defense or he doesn't know his offense. He holds the ball waiting for someone to get open. & we all know the best defense can only cover for so long.
BB's issue is different. He doesn't hold the ball like Luck, but he only takes what the defense gives him, which isn't going to win many games.
& Mariota. It may very well be that his team is that bad, either way if he can't learn to read & exploit defenses well enough to get his teammates involved, he's not going to win a lot of games. Then again,Michael Vick took a very similar team to the NFC Championship game, so what do I know?
BB is the class of the division. Luck just hasn't been as expected and Mariota looks mediocre at best.
Quote:BB is the class of the division. Luck just hasn't been as expected and Mariota looks mediocre at best.
I think you mean MmInt.
His garbage time stats made it look passable, though.
I wonder how many titans fans are kidding themselves about who got the better QB between them and the Bucs right now.
Luck is elite when down a few touchdowns
Quote:Luck is elite when down a few touchdowns
I saw a stat a while back that he's basically the king of garbage time. When leading or trailing by 21 I believe it was, he puts up most of his stats.
Luck was nothing short of amazing today, he is the class of the division by far, they lost because their D was getting ripped to sheds and Stafford made some plays.
Quote:I think you mean MmInt.
His garbage time stats made it look passable, though.
I wonder how many titans fans are kidding themselves about who got the better QB between them and the Bucs right now.
I'm sure most of them think he's better than Bortles, or going to be better than him.