Quote:Like I said, reading your posts one would think it was Mariota that won, passed for more yards, more yards per attempt, a higher completion percentage, and had an actual passing TD on Thursday night head to head facing a top 5 defense, but, strangely enough, that was Bortles that did those things.
Mariota was less than Bortles in every way and was facing a mediocre at best defense with almost no ability to rush the passer. Until the final drive against a prevent style defense Mariota didn't even have 170 yards passing.
So many things factually wrong here too. The Titans have a top 5 defense based on yards per game, but are 31st in per play efficiency. Teams just stop passing once they build a lead and run the ball with greater efficiency. They were also injured in the secondary out two key guys and Cox was hurt. Overall it was a subpar performance for Bortles with two really bad turnovers. Besides, you're looking at one game. I'm looking at the course of the season as a whole.
Quote:LOL, so the tack reddit has no comments by our favorite troll. But that's where you discuss stuff?
C'mon man. Where do you really discuss football online? I mean, seriously. Are you just a sorry loser? You don't try to actually find other people online that agree with you?
You just troll around?
I told you where to go, I know reading is hard for you. I have also posted a few articles of expert analysis in this thread if you want to find some more detailed opinions of Mariota's success.
Quote:So many things factually wrong here too. The Titans have a top 5 defense based on yards per game, but are 31st in per play efficiency. Teams just stop passing once they build a lead and run the ball with greater efficiency. They were also injured in the secondary out two key guys and Cox was hurt. Overall it was a subpar performance for Bortles with two really bad turnovers. Besides, you're looking at one game. I'm looking at the course of the season as a whole.
Massive amounts of cognitive dissonance in your post. First I thought that Mariota was awesome, now you're saying your defense looks good because other teams are beating you so easily they just salt the game away running the ball? Sounds like Mariota must be really terrible in that case.
I agree it was a subpar performance by Bortles, 240+ yards and a TD is a poor game for him, really says a lot that the expectation around him has built so much that 240 yards and a TD is a bad performance.
Quote:Massive amounts of cognitive dissonance in your post. First I thought that Mariota was awesome, now you're saying your defense looks good because other teams are beating you so easily they just salt the game away running the ball? Sounds like Mariota must be really terrible in that case.
I agree it was a subpar performance by Bortles, 240+ yards and a TD is a poor game for him, really says a lot that the expectation around him has built so much that 240 yards and a TD is a bad performance.
I don't think you understand what cognitive dissonance means. My points have been consistent, Mariota, over the course of the entire season has been more accurate, efficient, and effective in key areas of the field. It was a bad performance in context, he had two really awful turnovers and didn't do much to assert himself all game. He had a couple lucky deep passes to Arob and his only TD was set up at the 5 yard line by a long punt return.
Quote:I don't think you understand what cognitive dissonance means. My points have been consistent, Mariota, over the course of the entire season has been more accurate, efficient, and effective in key areas of the field. It was a bad performance in context, he had two really awful turnovers and didn't do much to assert himself all game. He had a couple lucky deep passes to Arob and his only TD was set up at the 5 yard line by a long punt return.
Sounds more like you don't understand what it means. Go back and read your own posting regarding why your defense is ranked so highly, if you're capable of any amount of actual self reflection you'll come away shocked at just how badly you've been contradicting yourself in an effort to contort the conversation in a way that continually reinforces the view you actually want to hold, which is that Mariota isn't what Anchorman and others here have seen him to be.
Quote:Sounds more like you don't understand what it means. Go back and read your own posting regarding why your defense is ranked so highly, if you're capable of any amount of actual self reflection you'll come away shocked at just how badly you've been contradicting yourself in an effort to contort the conversation in a way that continually reinforces the view you actually want to hold, which is that Mariota isn't what Anchorman and others here have seen him to be.
What are the contradictory beliefs? Please, explain yourself. To say that Bortles had a good game against a top 5 defense is a half truth. I think that efficiency on a per play basis is far more telling of actual performance. The defense was also playing very injured (their top 3 corners were out/hurt).
Let me also ask you this, why is one game more important in the evaluation compared to the rest of the season, or his career?
Quote:What are the contradictory beliefs? Please, explain yourself. To say that Bortles had a good game against a top 5 defense is a half truth. I think that efficiency on a per play basis is far more telling of actual performance. The defense was also playing very injured (their top 3 corners were out/hurt).
To quote you from just a few minutes ago:
Quote:
Teams just stop passing once they build a lead and run the ball with greater efficiency
To extrapolate, Mariota has actually been so bad, that teams stop trying against your team because they have no fear of the titans offense under Mariota, allowing your defense to look statistically better than it is.
So how do you want to spin it now?
Quote:To quote you from just a few minutes ago:
To extrapolate, Mariota has actually been so bad, that teams stop trying against your team because they have no fear of the titans offense under Mariota, allowing your defense to look statistically better than it is.
So how do you want to spin it now?
What does that have to do with Mariota? The Titans have the 26th worst run defense on an efficiency basis.
Quote:What does that have to do with Mariota? The Titans have the 26th worst run defense on an efficiency basis.
Now you're cherry picking a stat. That's some poor spin.
Quote:Now you're cherry picking a stat. That's some poor spin.
Cherry picking what exactly? This is so stupid, I'll concede the point that Bortles played okay (he sure didn't play great) against a good defense. You still didn't answer the question by the way, why is one game more important in a player's evaluation compared to the rest of the season or career?
Quote:Cherry picking what exactly? This is so stupid, I'll concede the point that Bortles played okay (he sure didn't play great) against a good defense. You still didn't answer the question by the way, why is one game more important in a player's evaluation compared to the rest of the season or career?
For one thing you literally have 8 data points for Mariota's career, hardly a statistically rigorous sample size, pretty much the same for Bortles at this point.
Right now believing what your eyes see is a stronger indicator of what a player has than going by stats, so saying something like "Mariota has better stats" carries as little meaning as saying Bortles had the statistically better day head to head. The only significance, of course, is that their respective statistical play in that game seems to fit what someone impartial would gather when they watch them playing.
Mariota seems to not want to throw down the field for some reason right now and Bortles commits too many turnovers right now even though he's impressive in other ways.
Quote:For one thing you literally have 8 data points for Mariota's career, hardly a statistically rigorous sample size, pretty much the same for Bortles at this point.
Right now believing what your eyes see is a stronger indicator of what a player has than going by stats, so saying something like "Mariota has better stats" carries as little meaning as saying Bortles had the statistically better day head to head. The only significance, of course, is that their respective statistical play in that game seems to fit what someone impartial would gather when they watch them playing.
Mariota seems to not want to throw down the field for some reason right now and Bortles commits too many turnovers right now even though he's impressive in other ways.
I've never said that either was finished with the development process, just that what we've seen from both up to this point from each of their respective careers, Mariota has been better and I think has a higher ceiling.
Quote:I've never said that either was finished with the development process, just that what we've seen from both up to this point from each of their respective careers, Mariota has been better and I think has a higher ceiling.
Your opinion, but so far it seems more confirmation bias than anything. You see his two statistically impressive games and say "that's his baseline" while everyone else sees his constant checkdowns and failures in close games and says "that's his baseline."
Quote:Your opinion, but so far it seems more confirmation bias than anything. You see his two statistically impressive games and say "that's his baseline" while everyone else sees his constant checkdowns and failures in close games and says "that's his baseline."
That's not what I'm basing my evaluation off of, it's the body of work and how he looks on the field. He is deadly accurate and makes good decisions from the pocket, going through his progressions and finding the open man. He has near perfect throwing mechanics and footwork. He has the arm talent to make all the throws and the athleticism to be a force in the league for a long time. The analysis is there and the evidence supports all that, just look at some of what had been posted. To say he has been a check down qb is just a false narrative, especially considering he had the 8th highest yard per attempt in the league.
People harp on his deep ball issues but conveniently ignore that he actually has been better on the deep ball than bortles in his rookie season, and also attacks the intermediate portions of the field with great efficiency. Bortles threw nearly 70% of his passes under 10 yards as a rookie and was still one of the most erratic and inaccurate qbs in the league. Mariota has been better in every area with a worse offensive line and worse play makers on the outside.
Quote:That's not what I'm basing my evaluation off of, it's the body of work and how he looks on the field. He is deadly accurate and makes good decisions from the pocket, going through his progressions and finding the open man. He has near perfect throwing mechanics and footwork. He has the arm talent to make all the throws and the athleticism to be a force in the league for a long time. The analysis is there and the evidence supports all that, just look at some of what had been posted. To say he has been a check down qb is just a false narrative, especially considering he had the 8th highest yard per attempt in the league.
People harp on his deep ball issues but conveniently ignore that he actually has been better on the deep ball than bortles in his rookie season, and also attacks the intermediate portions of the field with great efficiency. Bortles threw nearly 70% of his passes under 10 yards as a rookie and was still one of the most erratic and inaccurate qbs in the league. Mariota has been better in every area with a worse offensive line and worse play makers on the outside.
I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Bortles rookie season, which you most likely didn't even watch. Mariota has a quick release, I like that part of his game, but he seems to be pretty poor in the pocket, considering the Jaguars managed to sack him four times with no one on the team that can rush the passer. Even worse, though, is his refusal to throw down the field. Last year Bortles had one of the all time worst offensive lines in front of him and was sacked something like 60 times in the fourteen games he played in, which is one of the reasons he had less downfield attempts, he pretty much had to scramble around to get the three seconds in the pocket a QB needs for guys to actually run a deep route.
Like I said, though, it's already clear what you think and why you think it, we just don't agree with what you think.
Quote:I'm not sure why you keep bringing up Bortles rookie season, which you most likely didn't even watch. Mariota has a quick release, I like that part of his game, but he seems to be pretty poor in the pocket, considering the Jaguars managed to sack him four times with no one on the team that can rush the passer. Even worse, though, is his refusal to throw down the field. Last year Bortles had one of the all time worst offensive lines in front of him and was sacked something like 60 times in the fourteen games he played in, which is one of the reasons he had less downfield attempts, he pretty much had to scramble around to get the three seconds in the pocket a QB needs for guys to actually run a deep route.
Like I said, though, it's already clear what you think and why you think it, we just don't agree with what you think.
The titans offensive line has graded even worse than the jags did that year, and was significantly worse than the jags this year. If you excuse bortles for poor line play, why hold mariota to a fault because of it?
I make the comparison to show the difference in their trajectories. Bortles, even deep into his 2nd year is performing worse than mariota in a significant number of measures. The old system qb or checkdown master narrative is tired and just isn't true, and all the evidence supports that.
Any "my evaluation" from baconator reads like a swooning Tiger Beat article.
Quote:Any "my evaluation" from baconator reads like a swooning Tiger Beat article.
More personal attacks. I'll take it as you conceding that bortles isn't in the same class as mariota.
Quote:More personal attacks. I'll take it as you conceding that bortles isn't in the same class as mariota.
OK, fine.
You win. MariKocheese is better than BB5. You win. It's obvious that the tacks are gonna dominate the jaguars from here on out. And all of that is because of MM. BB5 is a bust.
You win.
I'm gonna go cry in the corner now. BB5 is terrible. Baconator has figured out everything that all of us haven't because we are bitter and delusional. He wins and we lose.
I thought I was smart, but I just now realized that this entire message board is stupid, The only person that understands football is Baconator. We are all fools.
Quote:OK, fine.
You win. MariKocheese is better than BB5. You win. It's obvious that the tacks are gonna dominate the jaguars from here on out. And all of that is because of MM. BB5 is a bust.
You win.
I'm gonna go cry in the corner now. BB5 is terrible. Baconator has figured out everything that all of us haven't because we are bitter and delusional. He wins and we lose.
I thought I was smart, but I just now realized that this entire message board is stupid, The only person that understands football is Baconator. We are all fools.
No need to have a temper tantrum. Mariota being a good qb doesn't preclude bortles from reaching his potential.
Quote:No need to have a temper tantrum. Mariota being a good qb doesn't preclude bortles from reaching his potential.
Oh. OK...
So you concede that BB5 is gonna be a franchise QB? BB5's potential is being a playoff level QB.
By the way, Mariota's potential to being a good QB is a long shot. He looks more like Vince Young than he does Steve Young.