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A lot of bibbers and kindergartners in this thread. What does firing Gus accomplish? I don't even mean this year, i mean in general. We stick the course. At the end of year 10 when we're 40-120 then MAYBE we think about changing course...maybe, until then stop whining fake fans.

Quote:A lot of bibbers and kindergartners in this thread. What does firing Gus accomplish? I don't even mean this year, i mean in general. We stick the course. At the end of year 10 when we're 40-120 then MAYBE we think about changing course...maybe, until then stop whining fake fans.

You think he'll average 4 wins a year? I mean, I know that even a blind horse finds water given enough time, but Gus ain't got nothing on that horse.

Quote:You think he'll average 4 wins a year? I mean, I know that even a blind horse finds water given enough time, but Gus ain't got nothing on that horse.

It's called progress

The funniest thing in thread was when someone said we would go 6-10. The delusion is real.

Their is no way that this team is going to start to turn things around under HC Gus Bradley if they havent done it now they never will.

Time to fire GUS only a count down now until the Owner either fires GM Dave Caldwell for not doing it or forces his hand...

Quote:If the team needs a new head coach, then the right appointment can bring the fans in. Look at the effect Rex Ryan has had in Buffalo. They sold over 60,000 season tickets, and I think they even started a waiting list (albeit short and likely to disappear if their season continues to go down the pan).


We could be similar. If we appoint a head coach that brings excitement and hope back to the team, then the season ticket sales could be boosted. Whereas keeping Gus may result in less renewing or buying them if he is given another season.


I think the issue with Marrone is that not long after giving a speech after the last game about family and how they play and work for each other, he waltzes off with a nice pay day and sticking two fingers up to them all. I guess taking the pay day may make sense to some, but I feel a lot will view him as a quitter who didn't believe he could take that team any further than he already did, and took the first chance to get out. I don't think many teams would view that in a positive way, hence why they passed on him at this time.

 

You missed my point. I totally agree that firing AFTER this season and getting a new coach will boost season ticket sales.

 

My argument was that firing Bradley during the season versus after the season would do likely do little to bottom line since season tickets are already bought, and single game tickets already ended up getting crazy discounts since the Jags never fully sell out.

I disagree it will only help out ticket sales if they get a Head Coach that most fans can make a difference like Michigan's Head Coach Jim Harbaugh for example.


If they fire Gus and hire a Mularkey kind of guy it might hurt sales as people would rather watch Gus another year than to see that.

I've heard a bunch of media types (both reporters and ex-jocks) talk about how it almost never does any good to fire a coach in the middle of a season.  They're all missing the point.  I don't want Gus fired now because I really believe it will save our season.  Our season is toast, whether Gus remains the coach or not.  I want him fired now because I don't want the front office getting wishy-washy as the offseason approaches.

 

My nightmare scenario is this:  We find ourselves at, say, 1-12.  Then, with absolutely nothing at stake, we end up winning our last 3 meaningless games to finish 4-12.  As bad as that record looks, I guarantee there would be a bunch of people inside and outside the organization saying, "But they finished the season on a high note!" and "They'll have momentum going into next season!" and "The players are finally beginning to respond to Gus's system!"  Management has second thoughts about firing Bradley and we end up watching the same clown show for another year.  

 

Fire him now.  It won't get us a better record this year.  But it will ensure that we don't repeat this mistake next year.

Quote:I've heard a bunch of media types (both reporters and ex-jocks) talk about how it almost never does any good to fire a coach in the middle of a season. They're all missing the point. I don't want Gus fired now because I really believe it will save our season. Our season is toast, whether Gus remains the coach or not. I want him fired now because I don't want the front office getting wishy-washy as the offseason approaches.


My nightmare scenario is this: We find ourselves at, say, 1-12. Then, with absolutely nothing at stake, we end up winning our last 3 meaningless games to finish 4-12. As bad as that record looks, I guarantee there would be a bunch of people inside and outside the organization saying, "But they finished the season on a high note!" and "They'll have momentum going into next season!" and "The players are finally beginning to respond to Gus's system!" Management has second thoughts about firing Bradley and we end up watching the same clown show for another year.


Fire him now. It won't get us a better record this year. But it will ensure that we don't repeat this mistake next year.

Excellent point.


I'd give anything to be Dave Caldwell for a day so I can look buffoon Bradley in the face and say "Gus....ya fired!"

Quote:Reading comprehension?


 

I said being in the playoff hunt late in the season. That's still a long way from actually making the playoffs.

ok who said that besides people on this board? All I have heard the Jags organization ever say is to be more competitive this year

Quote:ok who said that besides people on this board? All I have heard the Jags organization ever say is to be more competitive this year

 

Being more competitive would mean being in the play-off hunt.

 

I mean, what the heck is your definition of competitive?  You compete for getting into the playoffs.  You compete to win your division.

 

Come on, wrong_box, don't be obtuse.  You know this was the year that "competitive" means actually winning games and being in the playoff hunt.  

Quote:Not saying that marrone is the answer...


But the critique that he left the bills and that underlies a character flaw needs examination.


Marrone opted out after a change in the front office, correct?


If so, does that not show a noble loyalty to those that hired him?


Again I'm not saying he's the answer, but it's something to think about...

There was a change in ownership not long after Ralph Wilson's death. Their front office has remained pretty consistent because he was hired by Nix/Whaley, the latter taking over from Nix that off season in a transitional period, so he was involved in the hiring of Marrone.


So it was more a case of take the money and run, rather than work under the new ownership. Maybe he was concerned about Pegula, but I think he realised he has gone as far as he could with that team, and took the opportunity to bolt hoping that another team would take a chance on him after coaching the Bills to 9-7.


We could do worse for an interim, but not sure he would change the trajectory of this team.

Quote:There was a change in ownership not long after Ralph Wilson's death. Their front office has remained pretty consistent because he was hired by Nix/Whaley, the latter taking over from Nix that off season in a transitional period, so he was involved in the hiring of Marrone.


So it was more a case of take the money and run, rather than work under the new ownership. Maybe he was concerned about Pegula, but I think he realised he has gone as far as he could with that team, and took the opportunity to bolt hoping that another team would take a chance on him after coaching the Bills to 9-7.


We could do worse for an interim, but not sure he would change the trajectory of this team.

 

Thank you for the correction and explanation.  My theory on his loyalty then appears to not be the case, unless he really loved the original owner.  Which may be inplausable if the front office remained the same after the change in ownership.

Quote:I've heard a bunch of media types (both reporters and ex-jocks) talk about how it almost never does any good to fire a coach in the middle of a season. They're all missing the point. I don't want Gus fired now because I really believe it will save our season. Our season is toast, whether Gus remains the coach or not. I want him fired now because I don't want the front office getting wishy-washy as the offseason approaches.


My nightmare scenario is this: We find ourselves at, say, 1-12. Then, with absolutely nothing at stake, we end up winning our last 3 meaningless games to finish 4-12. As bad as that record looks, I guarantee there would be a bunch of people inside and outside the organization saying, "But they finished the season on a high note!" and "They'll have momentum going into next season!" and "The players are finally beginning to respond to Gus's system!" Management has second thoughts about firing Bradley and we end up watching the same clown show for another year.


Fire him now. It won't get us a better record this year. But it will ensure that we don't repeat this mistake next year.

Granted the Panthers had more wins than us (6-10 in his first season), but they could have fired Ron Rivera in 2012 when they were 1-6 after week 8, or 2-8 after week 11, but they stuck with him and they finished the season 7-9, winning five of their last six games and they could have won the game they lost.


Some speculated he would be fired after 2012, but they stuck with him after they turned it around at the end of that season. But again the Panthers could have fired him after a slow start in 2013, they were 1-3 after week 5 and looking like they were goin to struggle. They stuck with Rivera and they went on an eight game winning streak, and finished their season 12-4.


Fast forward to last season, they started ok at 3-2-1 at the end of week six, but they ended up going on a six game losing streak. Again, they could have been justified firing Rivera, instead they gave the team stability and kept him in charge and they finished their season 7-8-1, won their division for the second consecutive time, and won a game in the play offs.


What I am trying to highlight here is the fact that the Panthers could have followed your route by firing Rivera mid-season to prevent one of those late season win streaks that gives front offices a reason to get "wishy-washy" and keep the head coach for another season. But if they had fired Rivera in 2012, they may never have done as well as they did the past two seasons, or as well as they have started this season. If they fired him in 2013, there's no guarantee they would have gone on that long winning streak with only one more defeat that season.


Now I'm not saying Gus is the right man for the job, but if we keep him and this team finishes the season 6-10, 7-9, or even 8-8, that would show that the players finally started to get the job done on the field. Like I said in a previous post, it is not all Gus' fault. He doesn't tell Blake to make a bad read and throw an interception. He doesn't tell his defense to miss tackles. He doesn't tell Myers to choke when going for a game winning field goal. So if his players actually did their job and executed well, took their chances, this team could have a better record than it does now. And if they manage to do that for the rest of the season, they will have a chance to put a fair few wins on the board. Even a 6-10, 7-9, or 8-8 season may not keep him in a job (teams have fired their head coaches for that), but if we fire him mid season we'll never know if he could have turned it around and helped us to similar success that the Panthers have found under Rivera. He may not do that, but we should give him the season to see what this team can do under his stewardship.

Quote:So what you are saying is, "throw out the benchmark before a coach has a chance to meet or not meet the benchmark". Look at the schedule after the bye week. It is very possible to win at least 5 of those games if not more. That would meet the 6-10 expectations of many on this board.

I hate to sound negative but if we couldn't beat team led by a 40 year old, a squad led by a turnover prone rookie, and the Hoyer led Texans at home, where do you see 5 more wins?

Quote:ok who said that besides people on this board? All I have heard the Jags organization ever say is to be more competitive this year

Gus said it was built

Quote:Gus said it was built

 

Built like a Ford.......

 

 

 

 

....Pinto that is.

Quote:ok who said that besides people on this board? All I have heard the Jags organization ever say is to be more competitive this year

 

Oh, the local media sold that notion all offseason. Now clowns like Martineau and talking about it actually being five years and how the Jaguars could be the NY Mets.

Quote:Granted the Panthers had more wins than us (6-10 in his first season), but they could have fired Ron Rivera in 2012 when they were 1-6 after week 8, or 2-8 after week 11, but they stuck with him and they finished the season 7-9, winning five of their last six games and they could have won the game they lost.


Some speculated he would be fired after 2012, but they stuck with him after they turned it around at the end of that season. But again the Panthers could have fired him after a slow start in 2013, they were 1-3 after week 5 and looking like they were goin to struggle. They stuck with Rivera and they went on an eight game winning streak, and finished their season 12-4.


Fast forward to last season, they started ok at 3-2-1 at the end of week six, but they ended up going on a six game losing streak. Again, they could have been justified firing Rivera, instead they gave the team stability and kept him in charge and they finished their season 7-8-1, won their division for the second consecutive time, and won a game in the play offs.

 

The primary difference there is that Ron Rivera has kept his teams competitive - even when they're losing.  As empirical evidence for that, I point to the point spread.  I know that coaches and casual fans don't care about point spreads.  And if I was the fan of a winning team, I wouldn't care either.  But when your team is losing, it's a great way to give an honest assessment of a team's performance relative to reasonable expectations.  If your team is losing - but beating the point spread - at least you can say that they are keeping games closer than neutral observers would expect.  That's a strong argument for keeping the head coach.

 

In 2011, when Rivera went 6-10, they were 9-7 against the spread (ATS).  In 2012, when they were 7-9, they went 9-7 ATS.  Last year, even though a 7-8-1 record was disappointing, they were 8-8 ATS.  So even when Rivera's teams have been dropping games, they are keeping games closer than expected. 

 

Bradley can point to no such competitiveness from his teams.  In 2013, we were 5-10-1 ATS.  In 2014, we were 6-9-1 ATS.  You think we're more competitive this year?  We're 2-4 ATS so far.  In other words, he doesn't just lose frequently, but he can't even beat the extremely meager expectations that a neutral betting public would put on the team.  

 

I can hear people whining as they read this, "But, but, but!  Bradley had to start from nothing!  His first two teams were horrible!"  Yeah, and that's why Vegas gave us a TON of points in every game we played.  And we still couldn't meet those low, low expectations.  We were getting 19.5 points against Seattle, and we still couldn't cover the spread.  We couldn't cover 11 against St. Louis, 16 against San Francisco, 9.5 against Arizona, 11 against Indianapolis, 10 against Philadelphia, 13 against San Diego, 13 against Indianapolis, or 14.5 against New England.  Bradley's teams can't even keep pace with the neutral observations of the non-fans.  

 

Even this year, with our improved passing game, and mildly-improved blocking, we are still laying eggs.  There is no excuse for allowing New England to hang 51 on you.  I don't care if they're the best in the league.  NFL games are supposed to be close (e.g. "any given Sunday...").  There is no excuse for allowing Old Man Hasselbeck to sling the ball all over the field on you.  There is no excuse for making Jameis Winston look like David Garrard a la 2007.  And last weekend's game?  We were favorites.  Hoyer is garbage.  It's not anywhere near sufficient to say that we were leading going into the fourth quarter.  

Quote:There must be some misunderstanding.

 

There must be some kind of mistake.

 

I waited for the wins for seasons

 

And Gus was late

 

Now it's not like the players to play the right way

 

You could have called the fans to let them know

 

I checked your win/loss numbers twice, don't understand it

 

I stayed home