Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Same convo taking place in Nashville. Fans screaming #FireWhiz, but cooler heads saying wait until the offseason. Prisco is a full on [BLEEP], but he's right about this.

He's coached nearly 40 games and has not improved in any area. He hasn't become a better game planner, game manager or clock manager.


People need to wake up.

I respect Pete Prisco as a professional sports commentator and his opinion, but I disagree with him about this. I think that if it's obvious that gus isn't going to turn this team around, and the team is looking at the possibility of doing no better than 2-14 this season, then there is up side to firing him sooner rather than later.

 

The benefit to getting rid of gus sooner is that it gives the franchise the opportunity to have 'live' auditions with one of two possible HC candidates who are already on the roster. Is there a more telling way to audition a coach than to see what they will do in a live situation? If the season is already lost (and at this point it's looking like a foregone conclusion) then we've nothing to lose by taking this action. On the other hand, if we know bradley isn't the future and we don't fire him soon, we squander the opportunity to observe what we already have on the roster here with this team as a possible new HC.

 

Obviously, even if we do fire gus sooner rather than later, and the team 'auditions' either marone or olsen as an interim HC, it doesn't mean they've got a lock on the job. What it does mean though is that we'll be able to get a better picture of what these guys might be able to 'bring to the table' than we otherwise would. 

 

I would add that there is also another, more sublime, benefit to moving on from bradley sooner rather than later at this point. It sends a message to the players and the fan base that failure will not be tolerated forever with this team. The practice of allowing years of losing football to pass before taking action has only succeeded in cementing a losing mindset about this team into the players, the fan base, and the media. Think about it... other teams fire their HC's if they lose to the Jaguars. Opportunistic players come to this team for a 'vacation'. The real losers in this whole situation are the fans. They've been faithful and deserve better than to have the laughing stock of the NFL here.

 

This whole scheme is predicated on the notion that the season is pretty well out of control and spiraling the drain. Given our recent losses that doesn't seem like that much of a reach at this point.

Quote:He's coached nearly 40 games and has not improved in any area. He hasn't become a better game planner, game manager or clock manager.


People need to wake up.

 

All this while the talent has improved.

 

It might not have improved to playoff level or even near playoff level yet, but it has certainly improved to better then a 1-5 record with several of those losses coming to some of the worst teams in the NFL, including teams with turnover prone rookie QBs and 40 yr old grampa QBs.

I agree with Prisco. A system must be given time to see the end results. No matter how much everyone wants to believe otherwise in the eyes of Khan and Caldwell and others this system is in its third year. The last two years results do not  matter as the team was void of talent and Khan knows that. . Khan has bought in to a four year plan and that's what this regime will be given. The rest of this season and next season. Book it.

Quote:The primary difference there is that Ron Rivera has kept his teams competitive - even when they're losing.  As empirical evidence for that, I point to the point spread.  I know that coaches and casual fans don't care about point spreads.  And if I was the fan of a winning team, I wouldn't care either.  But when your team is losing, it's a great way to give an honest assessment of a team's performance relative to reasonable expectations.  If your team is losing - but beating the point spread - at least you can say that they are keeping games closer than neutral observers would expect.  That's a strong argument for keeping the head coach.

 

In 2011, when Rivera went 6-10, they were 9-7 against the spread (ATS).  In 2012, when they were 7-9, they went 9-7 ATS.  Last year, even though a 7-8-1 record was disappointing, they were 8-8 ATS.  So even when Rivera's teams have been dropping games, they are keeping games closer than expected. 

 

Bradley can point to no such competitiveness from his teams.  In 2013, we were 5-10-1 ATS.  In 2014, we were 6-9-1 ATS.  You think we're more competitive this year?  We're 2-4 ATS so far.  In other words, he doesn't just lose frequently, but he can't even beat the extremely meager expectations that a neutral betting public would put on the team.  

 

I can hear people whining as they read this, "But, but, but!  Bradley had to start from nothing!  His first two teams were horrible!"  Yeah, and that's why Vegas gave us a TON of points in every game we played.  And we still couldn't meet those low, low expectations.  We were getting 19.5 points against Seattle, and we still couldn't cover the spread.  We couldn't cover 11 against St. Louis, 16 against San Francisco, 9.5 against Arizona, 11 against Indianapolis, 10 against Philadelphia, 13 against San Diego, 13 against Indianapolis, or 14.5 against New England.  Bradley's teams can't even keep pace with the neutral observations of the non-fans.  

 

Even this year, with our improved passing game, and mildly-improved blocking, we are still laying eggs.  There is no excuse for allowing New England to hang 51 on you.  I don't care if they're the best in the league.  NFL games are supposed to be close (e.g. "any given Sunday...").  There is no excuse for allowing Old Man Hasselbeck to sling the ball all over the field on you.  There is no excuse for making Jameis Winston look like David Garrard a la 2007.  And last weekend's game?  We were favorites.  Hoyer is garbage.  It's not anywhere near sufficient to say that we were leading going into the fourth quarter.  

 

 

Again not saying Gus is the right man for the job, but Rivera's GM also didn't blow that roster into smithereens (granted they had more talent to keep than DC had either). If you look at Gus' roster this third year, it is honestly comparable to what most rookie coaches get in their FIRST year. And that's not even factoring in the injuries that this team had to deal with this season.

Quote:Actually, I agree with Prisco on this one. Let the season play out and see how everyone, players and coaches react. What's the worst that will happen? The team loses out and gets a high draft pick? The team turns it around and meets the expectations of so many and ends up with a better record than last season?


I remember prior to the season that most on this board thought that a .500 season was out of the question. Many predicted less than that with around 6-10 being the final record. What if the 6-10 record that was predicted is met? Would that not be meeting expectations?


Many on this board last season and the season before were tired of being blown out and the game being decided by halftime. Being competitive and being in a position of at least having a chance to win was a milestone that many were calling for. That milestone has been reached.


The next goal is for the team to learn how to finish games, and I have confidence that it will happen. I also think that the theoretical threshold of 6-10 will be reached and possibly even be exceeded. I wish that I could say that it starts Sunday in London, but I don't think it will happen then. It's going to start after the bye week.


The bottom line is Prisco is right. Firing Gus Bradley does nothing at this point other than conceding and giving up the fight. When you do that, you are accepting defeat and you should not expect a young team to try and get better.

6-10 is what I expected, but the way the team is playing, we will be lucky to win 1, let alone 5 more games.


I wouldn't expect Marrone to turn it around, but it would be a nice try out for him, and maybe he could re-motivate this team.

Quote:I agree with Prisco. A system must be given time to see the end results. No matter how much everyone wants to believe otherwise in the eyes of Khan and Caldwell and others this system is in its third year. The last two years results do not  matter as the team was void of talent and Khan knows that. . Khan has bought in to a four year plan and that's what this regime will be given. The rest of this season and next season. Book it.

 

Barring a miracle turnaround, Bradley will not be back next year.

Quote:I agree with Prisco. A system must be given time to see the end results. No matter how much everyone wants to believe otherwise in the eyes of Khan and Caldwell and others this system is in its third year. The last two years results do not  matter as the team was void of talent and Khan knows that. . Khan has bought in to a four year plan and that's what this regime will be given. The rest of this season and next season. Book it.

 

If that happens, the Jaguars would be lucky to get 30,000 at the home games next year. 

Quote:I agree with Prisco. A system must be given time to see the end results. No matter how much everyone wants to believe otherwise in the eyes of Khan and Caldwell and others this system is in its third year. The last two years results do not  matter as the team was void of talent and Khan knows that. . Khan has bought in to a four year plan and that's what this regime will be given. The rest of this season and next season. Book it.

While it's a 4 year plan, there has been a certain expectation level set that year 3 would show the team turning the corner.  It hasn't happened yet.  There's still a lot of football left to play, but if the team doesn't start cobbling together some wins as the season progresses, Gus won't get a year 4. 

I don't think there is anything Gus can do at this point to save himself. Whether he gets fired next week or in January, you know a guy like Khan is putting out feelers. Heck, maybe even one of the big names as a short term consultant to see if they agree with what Caldwell is doing.

Gus does his best work after the BYE.....

 

Here's hoping he makes it to that.

Quote:I don't think there is anything Gus can do at this point to save himself. Whether he gets fired next week or in January, you know a guy like Khan is putting out feelers. Heck, maybe even one of the big names as a short term consultant to see if they agree with what Caldwell is doing.

If Gus is the problem it's hard to evaluate the job Dave is doing, of course the same can be said reflectively

Quote:I don't think there is anything Gus can do at this point to save himself. Whether he gets fired next week or in January, you know a guy like Khan is putting out feelers. Heck, maybe even one of the big names as a short term consultant to see if they agree with what Caldwell is doing.

I disagree.  While I think it's unlikely, it's not impossible that things could finally start clicking for this team as the season progresses.  Khan did buy into the 4 year plan when he hired Caldwell.  I don't see him abandoning the plan at this point.  That's especially true if the team does continue to improve, and it starts to register with wins.  The team is better than it was a year ago, or even 2 seasons ago.  It's unfortunate that the wins aren't coming the way we'd like, but they will eventually.  Does that save Gus?  Not sure, but I think it really depends on where the team is at when the season ends. 

Quote:While it's a 4 year plan, there has been a certain expectation level set that year 3 would show the team turning the corner.  It hasn't happened yet.  There's still a lot of football left to play, but if the team doesn't start cobbling together some wins as the season progresses, Gus won't get a year 4. 

This is the million dollar question, so to speak. For Khan what is that number of wins? or is there even a number this year that determines staffing changes or not. That is where Khan has never really made himself clear. I don't think he want's to keep up the churn so in so he will keep the system intact for another year for better or worse.

Quote:This is the million dollar question, so to speak. For Khan what is that number of wins? or is there even a number this year that determines staffing changes or not. That is where Khan has never really made himself clear. I don't think he want's to keep up the churn so in so he will keep the system intact for another year for better or worse.

I think folks on this board would probably be really disappointed if they knew what that magic number was, because I don't think there's a really high bar set for this year beyond starting to move the arrow in the right direction. 

Quote:I think folks on this board would probably be really disappointed if they knew what that magic number was, because I don't think there's a really high bar set for this year beyond starting to move the arrow in the right direction. 

 

Starting to move the arrow in the right direction was last year's mission.  The plan as I understood it was:

 

Year 1: Suck it up and get the crap kicked out of you

Year 2: Start to turn it around, but still lose....just not as bad

Year 3: Win some games and not be eliminated from the playoffs by the end of October

 

As pathetic as those goals are, the only one we've accomplished is year 1.

 

If year 3's goals are to "start to turn it around", what's year 4?  Be more competitive...go 5-11.  Year 5 can be an 8-8 record.  Year 6 can be compete for the playoffs?  That's gotta be the lowest bar set in the history of football!

Quote:I think folks on this board would probably be really disappointed if they knew what that magic number was, because I don't think there's a really high bar set for this year beyond starting to move the arrow in the right direction. 

 

While I do understand your point, that is a very depressing notion to hear, due to the "at least? 7 year funk this organization has been in.

 

That is a very long time to be in despair.

Love the phrase "Change just for the sake of change"

 

No... It's change because we suck and this team is poorly coached. This isn't "knee jerk" since we are basically 40 games into his career. He clearly doesn't know what he's doing and he still hasn't improved as a HC.

Quote:Starting to move the arrow in the right direction was last year's mission.  The plan as I understood it was:

 

Year 1: Suck it up and get the crap kicked out of you

Year 2: Start to turn it around, but still lose....just not as bad

Year 3: Win some games and not be eliminated from the playoffs by the end of October

 

As pathetic as those goals are, the only one we've accomplished is year 1.

 

If year 3's goals are to "start to turn it around", what's year 4?  Be more competitive...go 5-11.  Year 5 can be an 8-8 record.  Year 6 can be compete for the playoffs?  That's gotta be the lowest bar set in the history of football!

 

Quote:Starting to move the arrow in the right direction was last year's mission.  The plan as I understood it was:

 

Year 1: Suck it up and get the crap kicked out of you

Year 2: Start to turn it around, but still lose....just not as bad

Year 3: Win some games and not be eliminated from the playoffs by the end of October

 

As pathetic as those goals are, the only one we've accomplished is year 1.

 

If year 3's goals are to "start to turn it around", what's year 4?  Be more competitive...go 5-11.  Year 5 can be an 8-8 record.  Year 6 can be compete for the playoffs?  That's gotta be the lowest bar set in the history of football!

 

Indeed!!!

 

Amen, Brother.