Quote:Obama's skin color may be similar to yours, but he is hardly representative of African American culture. He is not descended from American slaves. His father was Nigerian, his mother a white woman. He spent much of his childhood overseas. There were reasons to vote for him if you were of a similar mindset politically, but his skin color was not one of them. I wouldn't vote for Bernie Sanders because he was a pasty white guy, even if all of the other candidates weren't.
Without commenting on the effect on his policies, one must not be descended from African slaves nor be the child of two African-American parents to experience what it means to be an African-American.
Quote:First off, it's not discrimination to disagree with someone lifestyle because of a difference of religious beliefs.
Race and alternative lifestyles are two totally different issues at the opposite ends of the spectrum. One is something you are born with, the other is a choice. Is it fair to not bake a cake for someone who is black and have no control or choice at birth vs someone who chose to life a lifestyle that suits them since birth that conflicts with someone's beliefs?
This may blow your mind, but there are some black people who are liberal who disagree with that lifestyle because it doesn't fit their preference.
This issue runs deeper for me because of religious reasons so yes I'm giving you the "excuse", or "line" to refrain from discussing that aspect of my viewpoints.
Even if it's a lifestyle choice and not a born gay thing you still can't justify why it's ok to pass discrimination laws for one group and not another. Because you personally find it wrong that's a pretty weak reason to support or oppose laws.
It just blows my mind that you don't see the irony of discrimination laws in all this? Being for them is one thing but then saying only for this group and not the other?
All that said the majority of people will argue most gays are born gay the same way your born black, how can you then justify discriminating them if they're born gay?
Quote:Without commenting on the effect on his policies, one must not be descended from African slaves nor be the child of two African-American parents to experience what it means to be an African-American.
...so, in other words, anyone?
Quote:...so, in other words, anyone?
Words mean nothing, only intent matters. The USSC said so.
Quote:First off, it's not discrimination to disagree with someone lifestyle because of a difference of religious beliefs.
Race and alternative lifestyles are two totally different issues at the opposite ends of the spectrum. One is something you are born with, the other is a choice. Is it fair to not bake a cake for someone who is black and have no control or choice at birth vs someone who chose to life a lifestyle that suits them since birth that conflicts with someone's beliefs?
This may blow your mind, but there are some black people who are liberal who disagree with that lifestyle because it doesn't fit their preference.
This issue runs deeper for me because of religious reasons so yes I'm giving you the "excuse", or "line" to refrain from discussing that aspect of my viewpoints.
Believing something, no matter how icky it makes you feel, doesn't make it true.
I agree with Eric. You can't say "Don't discriminate against blacks, but discriminating against Gays is okay." Though we are on the opposite side of which way we think things should be.
People used religious beliefs to decry interracial marriage. Not too long ago, either.
Quote:I agree with Eric. You can't say "Don't discriminate against blacks, but discriminating against Gays is okay." Though we are on the opposite side of which way we think things should be.
People used religious beliefs to decry interracial marriage. Not too long ago, either.
That really is the perfect example not to long ago interracial marriage was gay marriage for all intensive purposes.
Also I think on this topic we agree just the way we address the problem is different.
So much coming togetherness on this MB lately. :thumbsup:
Quote:What the hell.
He grew up and was educated here in America.
The birth certificate debate is so 2008.
He grew up in Hawaii. Have you ever been there? I have and I can tell you that it most certainly is not like the mainland at all. It's almost like being in a foreign country. I've been in 49 of our 50 states as well as Puerto Rico. Hawaii may be one of our states, but it certainly is not "main stream USA".
What Malabar Jag said is true. His only "black heritage" is from his father who was/is from Nigeria. His mother is white. He is not a descendant of slaves in this country.
Nowhere in Malabar Jag's post did he mention anything about President Obama's birth certificate.
Quote:So much coming togetherness on this MB lately. :thumbsup:
Like I said in the other thread, the end is near.
Quote:He grew up in Hawaii. Have you ever been there? I have and I can tell you that it most certainly is not like the mainland at all. It's almost like being in a foreign country. I've been in 49 of our 50 states as well as Puerto Rico. Hawaii may be one of our states, but it certainly is not "main stream USA".
It's not Nebraska, but it is America. I know a couple of Navy brats who grew up there and are as red-blooded as any Kansas farmer. It feels like a foreign country because of how tiny and remote it is and how disconnected from everything it feels, but it's still very much an American state full of people with the same political ideologies as you or I.
Quote:It's not Nebraska, but it is America. I know a couple of Navy brats who grew up there and are as red-blooded as any Kansas farmer. It feels like a foreign country because of how tiny and remote it is and how disconnected from everything it feels, but it's still very much an American state full of people with the same political ideologies as you or I.
I have to disagree with you. I spent a pretty good amount of time in Hawaii, and I can assure you that the only place that "feels like" America is around the bases and the tourist areas. There is even an island there where "outsiders" (non-Hawaiians) are not allowed to go to or interact with the inhabitants (Niihau). Although there is limited tourism to the island, it's only in remote locations and visitors are prohibited from going to the area that is populated.
There are also many Hawaiians that openly speak about their belief of not being part of the U.S.A. and consider themselves "prisoners" in "their own country".
Now of course, the areas around the military bases and tourist areas are more "Americanized", but for locals living on the islands it's a very different way of life.
My point is, that yes it is "America" technically, but it's more of a very different "America" than people realize. I guess the same could be said regarding many of the Indian reservations in the southwest.
Quote:He grew up in Hawaii. Have you ever been there? I have and I can tell you that it most certainly is not like the mainland at all. It's almost like being in a foreign country. I've been in 49 of our 50 states as well as Puerto Rico. Hawaii may be one of our states, but it certainly is not "main stream USA".
What Malabar Jag said is true. His only "black heritage" is from his father who was/is from Nigeria. His mother is white. He is not a descendant of slaves in this country.
Nowhere in Malabar Jag's post did he mention anything about President Obama's birth certificate.
There's a strong resentment by natives of the fact that Hawaii is actually part of the US. Hawaii is nothing like the other 49 states unless you only use TV for your education on the subject. Hawaii 5.0 looks awfully American. Unfortunately, where Obama was raised and educated in Hawaii, embracing the American culture was hardly the standard. In fact, natives there have always looked at the US as an occupying colonial force.
Malabar is right. Obama's black heritage has nothing to do with the "slavery culture" of most African Americans in the US. His bloodline doesn't tie back to slavery in any way, and with a white mother, he has always been challenged by some activists because he's not "black enough."
Birth certificates are irrelevant.
Quote:It's not Nebraska, but it is America. I know a couple of Navy brats who grew up there and are as red-blooded as any Kansas farmer. It feels like a foreign country because of how tiny and remote it is and how disconnected from everything it feels, but it's still very much an American state full of people with the same political ideologies as you or I.
Navy brats who grew up in Hawaii were more than likely not immersed in the local culture, and if you actually knew anything about Hawaii, you'd recognize how ignorant it is to say the only reason it feels like a foreign nation is because it's remote and disconnected. Alaska is remote and disconnected from the US mainland. It feels pretty American just the same.
Quote:...so, in other words, anyone?
Are you denying people with one black parent and one white parent are not considered black by a considerable number in this country?
Quote:Even if it's a lifestyle choice and not a born gay thing you still can't justify why it's ok to pass discrimination laws for one group and not another. Because you personally find it wrong that's a pretty weak reason to support or oppose laws.
It just blows my mind that you don't see the irony of discrimination laws in all this? Being for them is one thing but then saying only for this group and not the other?
All that said the majority of people will argue most gays are born gay the same way your born black, how can you then justify discriminating them if they're born gay?
Are you purposely ignoring my point about me saying I support equal rights for the GLBT community, I just don't want my rights infringed upon? How hard is that to grasp? Please wipe that shocked look off your face in regards to some minorities believing the definition of marriage is between a man and a woman.
You are trying desperately to spin this into a "pass discrimination laws against some, but not against others" agenda.
So it sounds like you did some research on people born gay. Good because I want you to back it up!
Quote:He grew up in Hawaii. Have you ever been there? I have and I can tell you that it most certainly is not like the mainland at all. It's almost like being in a foreign country. I've been in 49 of our 50 states as well as Puerto Rico. Hawaii may be one of our states, but it certainly is not "main stream USA".
What Malabar Jag said is true. His only "black heritage" is from his father who was/is from Nigeria. His mother is white. He is not a descendant of slaves in this country.
Nowhere in Malabar Jag's post did he mention anything about President Obama's birth certificate.
Bottom line is Obama is biracial but identifies with his African American heritage more.
He grew up in the U.S. Received his education and college degrees in the U.S.
To dismiss his upbringing all because of his technically about his father's bloodline means you are questioning his citizenship.
Quote:You are trying desperately to spin this into a "pass discrimination laws against some, but not against others" agenda.
But that's exactly what you're saying. "People shouldn't be allowed to legally discriminate against black people, even if it interferes with their beliefs. But they should absolutely be allowed to discriminate against gay people if it interferes with their beliefs." Doesn't matter if you're born gay, choose to be gay, or what. Plain and simple. I mean otherwise religious discrimination would be fine, because you aren't born with a religion.
Quote:Are you denying people with one black parent and one white parent are not considered black by a considerable number in this country?
C'mon, rollerjag. What you described was that anyone could consider themselves black. If you'd like to reword it to say something else, then feel free to do so, but anyone can fit the criteria that you described.
So, I'm curious here. Let's say a black male was born into a wealthy home where he wasn't subjected to the black American heritage. Let's also say that he's never so much as even seen one. Could he too identify with that heritage? Is this something that anyone can claim if they physically look similar to another one?
Presumably, you'll draw a line somewhere.