Please everyone with your good arguments....  It is easy to draft QBs, Pass Rushers, Corner Backs and Offensive Lineman.  Now unfortunately, it is franchise ruining to not get the right ones and debilitating to watch them walk out the door for comp picks.

Edit:

And real salt on the wound is coming when just blaming Tom Coughlin for our woes doesn't work out.

What's going to really sting is when the Jags let Yan walk and he signs with the Colts.

And they get Rivers and/or Brady?
And D. Henry after the tacks don't pay him?
And sign Hunter Henry and Jordan Reed, both of whom stay healthy for a full season....

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What's going to really sting is when the Jags let Yan walk and he signs with the Colts.

And they get Rivers and/or Brady?
And D. Henry after the tacks don't pay him?
And sign Hunter Henry and Jordan Reed, both of whom stay healthy for a full season....

yikes won't that be fun 

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Birth of the Franchise - November 30, 1993
Death of the Franchise - November 29, 2011

Fans deserve better. Thanks for all the good times too many are in the past.

I can't wait to see all the whining going on when it's Allen and Smoot starting at DE in 2 years, when we could/should have Ngakoue and Allen for the next 4-5+ years.

I [BLEEP] swear if we lose Ngakoue, I'm [BLEEP] done.

I honestly can't believe there's people in this fan base that actually want to, or are even entertaining the thought of trading him... You guys act like players like him grow on trees or something.. 

We straight up fluked into getting Allen at #7.. Good luck having that happen again any time soon.

edit: Also can't wait to see the drop off from Allen when he's being asked to do it all by himself very soon.

You're acting like Yan's an elite player. Come on, he's a very good player, I'd rather have him then not but it's not like he's a top-10 player at his position.

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I'm condescending. That means I talk down to you. 
Check out the Jag's Forum Alternative: Duval Football Fans.

I can't wait to see all the whining going on when it's Allen and Smoot starting at DE in 2 years, when we could/should have Ngakoue and Allen for the next 4-5+ years.

I [BLEEP] swear if we lose Ngakoue, I'm [BLEEP] done.

I honestly can't believe there's people in this fan base that actually want to, or are even entertaining the thought of trading him... You guys act like players like him grow on trees or something.. 

We straight up fluked into getting Allen at #7.. Good luck having that happen again any time soon.

edit: Also can't wait to see the drop off from Allen when he's being asked to do it all by himself very soon.

You're acting like Yan's an elite player. Come on, he's a very good player, I'd rather have him then not but it's not like he's a top-10 player at his position.

Elite pass rusher*

Which is why he's gonna get a huge contract from either us or another team

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I can't wait to see all the whining going on when it's Allen and Smoot starting at DE in 2 years, when we could/should have Ngakoue and Allen for the next 4-5+ years.

I [BLEEP] swear if we lose Ngakoue, I'm [BLEEP] done.

I honestly can't believe there's people in this fan base that actually want to, or are even entertaining the thought of trading him... You guys act like players like him grow on trees or something.. 

We straight up fluked into getting Allen at #7.. Good luck having that happen again any time soon.

edit: Also can't wait to see the drop off from Allen when he's being asked to do it all by himself very soon.

You're acting like Yan's an elite player. Come on, he's a very good player, I'd rather have him then not but it's not like he's a top-10 player at his position.

He's easily top 15.  Give me 9 better pass rushers than him, though.

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He's 24 years old, has multiple seasons of elite pass rushing, has zero off the field issues and is also highly regarded by all who cross him.

It's the easiest contract in the world to secure that player. It's hilarious clueless jags fans spent all decade crying for an elite pass rusher but now they don't wanna pay up for it even when there's more than enough cap to do it

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They are going to have to make up that 19 million or so that was left on the table last season and then hit him with huge guaranteed cash and a minimum of a 4 year deal on top of that.

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Looking to troll? Don't bother, we supply our own.

 

 

We are definitely going to franchise him, but will he play, or hold out?

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

We are definitely going to franchise him, but will he play, or hold out?

Hold out

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Why would I stay in Florida and make 19 million when I can go to _________, and make more?

These kids were just as broke as you were at the age of 24. They don’t owe the hometown fans anything. Just ask the Patriot fans.

It’s ONLY about the money. I’m going to whoever pays me the most,

- signed,

Every football player ever

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So we franchise tag him - best case scenario he doesn’t hold out and he plays well under it next season...

What happens the season after that? He’s going to be even less likely to want to sign a long term deal after being forced to stay another season. Do we tag him again?

I just don’t see how this ends well, unless a proper long-term deal can be done.

Or... If he really wants to get away, maybe we offer him a two year deal which pays him the money he wants now and still gives him the chance to test free agency when he’s in his prime, two years down the line? And at the same time, we get out of the big contract before we have to pay Allen. (There’s probably a flaw in that plan, but it’s the best I can come up with!)

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If we do decide to trade him, I hope they get an actual player back. I hate these deals where you get picks back. It’s a total gamble. We trade a potential HOF player in Ramsey for PICKS, kind of senseless to be honest.

Trade him to TB and get OJ Howard and a pick. That’d be my idea. Get help immediately for Minshew. Or maybe an OL.

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You're acting like Yan's an elite player. Come on, he's a very good player, I'd rather have him then not but it's not like he's a top-10 player at his position.

Elite pass rusher*

Which is why he's gonna get a huge contract from either us or another team

xD

Wow there are 39 elite pass rushers in the league then LMAO

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You're acting like Yan's an elite player. Come on, he's a very good player, I'd rather have him then not but it's not like he's a top-10 player at his position.

He's easily top 15.  Give me 9 better pass rushers than him, though.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?t...onType=REG

Pick, there are 27 guys with more sacks than Yan, including 3 rookies AND DANTE FOWLER

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XD

Allen is a much better pass rusher than Yan, he even got more sacks in like half the playing time. Heck Smoot got like 6 sacks in a third of Yan's playing time. You act like Ngakoue is elite, he is nowhere near elite and he is aaverage at best vs the run.

All this crying for a guy with 8 sacks in a whole season lol.

Even taking your comparative assessment of the abilities of Yan and Allen at face value, Allen becomes less effective if he is the only pass rushing threat the team offers.  If the Jaguars allow Yan to walk and don't adequately replace him, Allen will face far more attention from opposing offenses.  He will get more double teams and teams will be able to scheme to reduce his impact.

History shows the best times in Jaguars history-and the best performers in the history of the league-happened when teams have multiple threats at a position.

in Jaguars history, in the early TC years, our passing game was great because we had two stud Ts in Boselli and Searcy (and a good swing T in Ben Coleman) and two stud WRs in Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell.  We had our strongest run defense during the JDR era when we had two stud DTs in Stroud and Henderson.  We had our strongest rushing attack when we had two stud RBs in FT and MJD.  In most of those cases, when one of each of those pairs left, the productivity fell off.

The same holds true for teams around the league.  Tom Brady's best statistical season was when he had two good WRs at his disposal in Randy Moss and Wes Welker.  Their DL was the best when they had studs along their front three in Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork.  The Chiefs won it all this year because they had four blazing fast WRs and another threat at TE.  The Ravens won their first Super Bowl by having two stud run stuffing DTs in Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa, who enabled Ray Lewis to roam freely at MLB.  That defense also offered three good pass rushers in DEs McCrary, Rob Burnett, and OLB Peter Boulware.  The Giants won their first Super Bowl in the Parcells era with two stud OLBs in Lawrence Taylor and Carl Banks, and Super Bowls in the Coughlin era with good pass rushers in Jason Pierre Paul and Michael Strahan and later Justin Tuck.  The Raiders won their last Super Bowl with a pair of stud CBs in Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes.  The examples are endless.  Amassing quality talent at a position makes that position a matchup advantage.

Finally, the fact Yan had only eight sacks does not tell the entire story about his ability.  First, he had a hamstring injury that hindered him for 4-5 games, even though he missed only one game.  Secondly, the team's run defense completely collapsed.  If teams decided to simply run the ball for a stretch of five weeks, you won't get too many sacks during that time.  Finally the team did not play with many leads.  The fact is, since he was drafted in 2016, he has been one of the most productive pass rushers in the league.  If you think Smoot is anywhere near Yannick Ngakoue, I'm not sure where else this conversation can go.

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Telvin Smith, so there was the one under Caldwell, but your point still stands.

Forgot about him.  Mea culpa.

But where is he now?

Why don't the most productive players want to remain with this team?

xDDD

Yeah, you are right, it's not like Allen is a rookie who will only get better... It's not like he already showed he is way more talented than Yan... It's not like he can get sacks by himself like other players...

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We are definitely going to franchise him, but will he play, or hold out?

Hold out

The guy is my favorite Jaguar other than Calais Campbell, but if he really wants to play for a different team, why stop him? 
Tag him, and get something good out of the deal. He's worth a low first or high second round pick, but I would gladly trade him for a young, top 10 offensive tackle or center.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/yan...-team-fits

Good article from a neutral perspective assessing Yannick's value as a FA.

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https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/yan...-team-fits

Good article from a neutral perspective assessing Yannick's value as a FA.

I don't think he will be going anywhere this year, and I think the odds are very strong that we pony up the money so he will want to play, and it's all because Dave and Doug absolutely must win this year to keep their jobs.

If it were up to me, and I was in a longer than one year situation, I would try my best to sign him, but if I could not, then I would not mind trading him for a late first round pick, somewhere around #22, or a high 2nd plus high 3rd.

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Even taking your comparative assessment of the abilities of Yan and Allen at face value, Allen becomes less effective if he is the only pass rushing threat the team offers.  If the Jaguars allow Yan to walk and don't adequately replace him, Allen will face far more attention from opposing offenses.  He will get more double teams and teams will be able to scheme to reduce his impact.

History shows the best times in Jaguars history-and the best performers in the history of the league-happened when teams have multiple threats at a position.

in Jaguars history, in the early TC years, our passing game was great because we had two stud Ts in Boselli and Searcy (and a good swing T in Ben Coleman) and two stud WRs in Jimmy Smith and Keenan McCardell.  We had our strongest run defense during the JDR era when we had two stud DTs in Stroud and Henderson.  We had our strongest rushing attack when we had two stud RBs in FT and MJD.  In most of those cases, when one of each of those pairs left, the productivity fell off.

The same holds true for teams around the league.  Tom Brady's best statistical season was when he had two good WRs at his disposal in Randy Moss and Wes Welker.  Their DL was the best when they had studs along their front three in Richard Seymour and Vince Wilfork.  The Chiefs won it all this year because they had four blazing fast WRs and another threat at TE.  The Ravens won their first Super Bowl by having two stud run stuffing DTs in Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa, who enabled Ray Lewis to roam freely at MLB.  That defense also offered three good pass rushers in DEs McCrary, Rob Burnett, and OLB Peter Boulware.  The Giants won their first Super Bowl in the Parcells era with two stud OLBs in Lawrence Taylor and Carl Banks, and Super Bowls in the Coughlin era with good pass rushers in Jason Pierre Paul and Michael Strahan and later Justin Tuck.  The Raiders won their last Super Bowl with a pair of stud CBs in Lester Hayes and Mike Haynes.  The examples are endless.  Amassing quality talent at a position makes that position a matchup advantage.

Finally, the fact Yan had only eight sacks does not tell the entire story about his ability.  First, he had a hamstring injury that hindered him for 4-5 games, even though he missed only one game.  Secondly, the team's run defense completely collapsed.  If teams decided to simply run the ball for a stretch of five weeks, you won't get too many sacks during that time.  Finally the team did not play with many leads.  The fact is, since he was drafted in 2016, he has been one of the most productive pass rushers in the league.  If you think Smoot is anywhere near Yannick Ngakoue, I'm not sure where else this conversation can go.

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Forgot about him.  Mea culpa.

But where is he now?

Why don't the most productive players want to remain with this team?

xDDD

Yeah, you are right, it's not like Allen is a rookie who will only get better... It's not like he already showed he is way more talented than Yan... It's not like he can get sacks by himself like other players...

Whoa.

My post was not an attack on Allen in ANY way whatsoever.

My post did not deny Allen was a rookie last year. 

My post did not assert he could not get better.

It's numbers and common sense.

A defense with two good pass rushers is typically more effective at rushing the passer than a defense with only one.  A pass rusher or WR or CB with paired with another one at the same position becomes more effective because it changes the way opponents approach the games.  Jimmy Smith got more attention from defenses when Bobby Shaw was on the other side  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/jax/2002.htm#rushing_and_receiving::14 than when Keenan was on the other side.  https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/jax/2001.htm#rushing_and_receiving::14 When that happened, it was harder for him to get open.  Did it mean he wasn't a great player?  No.  It was just harder for him to do his job.

My "rule of two" argument later in this very post was silent on any comparison between the two players listed in each instance.  Listing Carl Banks as a stud LB in that NY Giants pair does not declare that Banks is equal or better than Lawrence Taylor. 

I DID expressly state that Yan was vastly superior to Smoot in my closing paragraph.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/yan...-team-fits

Good article from a neutral perspective assessing Yannick's value as a FA.

Very good read.

I thought this quote from the article reinforces my point re: the rule of two.

He'd be a star in Philadelphia and boost the Eagles' pass rush, further freeing up Fletcher Cox and 2017 first-round selection Derek Barnett to get after the passer.

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Worst to 1st.  Curse Reversed!

Elite pass rusher*

Which is why he's gonna get a huge contract from either us or another team

xD

Wow there are 39 elite pass rushers in the league then LMAO

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He's easily top 15.  Give me 9 better pass rushers than him, though.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?t...onType=REG

Pick, there are 27 guys with more sacks than Yan, including 3 rookies AND DANTE FOWLER

You're very dense, my guy. Either that or you're just not very bright. Probably both. Idk how you can call yourself a fan of football yet hang your hat on sacks being the only indicator of how good a pass rusher is.

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