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COVID-19
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(03-18-2020, 02:42 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote:(03-18-2020, 02:29 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: The bottom line is closing bars and night clubs is pretty much a violation of our 1st amendment right (freedom to peacefully assemble). Telling restaurants that they can't serve a product that they normally serve is far too much government over-reach. Sarcasm?
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
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(03-18-2020, 03:42 PM)mikesez Wrote:(03-18-2020, 02:42 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: The Constitution was suspended by Trump's National Emergency declaration. I don't think so. Check the statutes under which he issued the order. I believe the Constitution was suspended by FDR in the 1933 bank emergency. i do not know if it was ever restored. Same deal after 9/11. I believe each President since then has extended the emergency order. (03-18-2020, 12:27 PM)Gabe Wrote: I've done my fair share of finger pointing. Trump and his news outlet are just as much to blame for the situation we're all in now as a result of downplaying the threat of the virus itself as the overreaction from the general public. Only time will tell as to how much damage it'll do to his reelection hopes. Good luck to you both. Hopefully the test comes back a nothing-burger (03-18-2020, 01:01 PM)Last42min Wrote: As for the virus itself, I am starting to believe either the numbers are severely under-reported or there are two strains of the virus. If the number of people being infected is severely under-reported, that is a very good thing. We could end up burning through this thing in a couple weeks. Something just doesn't pass the sniff test with regards to how quickly China recovered from this. There should reinfections starting to pop back up if the cases aren't far more widespread than previously believed. I really wish the US had proper testing to get some real numbers on this. We may never know until we do a random sample of antibodies in humans, but who knows when that will happen. I've read lots of speculation lately that there are two strains. One of them, a much milder version, has theoretically more or less circled the globe without anyone noticing. There were lots of reports in the US of particularly bad flu cases, and the working idea is that those may have actually been the more aggressive but less potent strain. If that is the case, it would probably explain a few things. I'm still more interested in international response to China's newest theory that the coronavirus causing COVID-19 came from snakes, which had likely been infected by bats known to carry SARS. The bats with SARS I buy. SARS tracing back to a bat colony in southern China has been confirmed numerous times. It's just highly suspect to me that this virus, which is in many ways SARS on steroids, just happened to turn up in a marketplace on the doorstep of one of the most advanced virology labs in the world. I continue to believe that COVID-19 was an effort to weaponize SARS that made its way out into the open somehow or another. I wouldn't go so far as to say that China poisoned its own people, but it's an incredible coincidence that the "Enterprise-D" version of SARS just happened to turn up at a busy marketplace right there. (03-18-2020, 02:29 PM)jagibelieve Wrote:(03-18-2020, 11:04 AM)TJBender Wrote: That's wonderful, good for you, enjoy your drink, thanks for killing your grandmother when you bump into her at the supermarket and breath on the bag of oranges she's picking up. First off, an apology. I'm slightly on edge right now with everyone in my immediate family except me in a high risk group, one of them refusing to admit that this is potentially a very big deal, and another clearly not understanding what the word "quarantine" means. So when I see things like large groups of families with their kids swinging around on park equipment, groups of people at a cramped bar for St. Patrick's Day and the [BLEEP] Tide Pod generation not understanding basic courtesies like, "If you're potentially carrying a deadly plague, don't walk 18 inches from the person that might die," I get a little bit heated. "Natural selection" is a defense I've heard from someone who proudly ranted about how they weren't going to follow any government guidelines that tell them how to live their life, and the disease is only killing people who should probably die anyway, so why should they change the way they live? Yeah, enough. Under normal circumstances, I'd say yes, closing down restaurants is pushing it Constitutionally, and the burden of making sure that the bar's crowd numbers less than the fire marshal's limit should fall to the owner. Under these circumstances, no. I don't think it's fair to foist that off of proprietors. For one, with the six-foot spacing guideline and limit of ten people per gathering, what's a restaurant owner going to do? Allow two families in and arrange each person at their own booth on the other side of the restaurant? Or, let's say the crowd of ten is nixed, who's going to set capacity rules and how? Will the state say, "Ok, you can have one person for every ten square feet of your building"? And would the owner then have to hire someone to stand outside and perform a count, like a bouncer but at TGI Friday's? That would be a logistical nightmare, and what happens if the owner doesn't have enough employees wanting to put themselves in that environment? Good luck replacing them right now--if you even dare fire an employee for refusing to report to work in a pandemic. In an environment where things are changing by the day, almost by the hour at times, as much as it hurts my fingers to type this, government intervention is the right thing to do. This is a scenario we've never seen before, and given the likely outcome if we do nothing and allow it to overwhelm the medical system, I think certain specific, limited restrictions, like mandating take-out or delivery service only for bars and restaurants, are warranted. Apply that same government-mandated closure to something like a church and I'm less ok with that, because now the government is treading on the edge of a very slippery slope. To anyone who wants to sue the government for stripping their First Amendment rights by instructing restaurants to close during a pandemic...best of luck. I'll defer to TrivialPursuit's response to the natural selection comment, because he's right. Natural selection only works like that if it kills the people who do the stupid thing. In this case, the people doing the stupid thing are probably fine, but their parents and grandparents might not be. (03-18-2020, 04:08 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote:(03-18-2020, 03:42 PM)mikesez Wrote: Sarcasm? I understand those things but I would not call them "suspending the Constitution". Typically, the president needs an act of Congress to change government policy. But Congress over the years has passed many statutes giving the president certain powers when an emergency is declared. The president's declarations are constitutional if they are within the bounds of those statutes, and those statutes are constitutional if they are within the bounds of congress's powers as defined in article 1 and certain amendments. I tend to agree that the Constitution has been reinterpreted beyond the imagination of the people who wrote it and amended it, but I would not say it has been suspended. I would also remind you that there are aspects of our constitution which were never written down. The English have called their system of government a "constitution" for centuries prior to the founding of this country, even though they've never had a written constitution. we wrote down our constitution to make it harder for the executive to arbitrarily change the terms of the Constitution, the way that English and other European kings had done for centuries. But unfortunately it was not impossible for them to change it.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
(03-18-2020, 05:01 PM)mikesez Wrote:(03-18-2020, 04:08 PM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: I don't think so. Check the statutes under which he issued the order. The world after the "emergency" is always different than the world before it. Anyone thinking we go back to the same USA as 2019 is kidding themselves. In 1933 they removed honest money and replaced it with bankster paper. In 2001 we saw massive intrusion into 4th Amendment protections. The Feds now claim the Constitution does not apply at the US Border and they consider the US Border anywhere within 100 miles of the actual border. Your children and Grandma get fondled at the airport. No telling what the new normal will be after this is over. In China there are new rules post-COVID. To board public transport, you must have your health chip scanned, temperature taken, and you can only pay with a special smart phone app. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
Interesting projections from Imperial College in the UK about hospitalization of the elderly and fatalities:
![]() Full report (March 16th publication) here: https://www.imperial.ac.uk/media/imperia...3-2020.pdf
To kind of bring this back around to football, next year's NFL season is going to look very different.
Most likely, the players will be isolated with their teams, and regularly tested. Most likely, you will have to answer a questionnaire and get a temperature scan before you get to go to the game. You may have to promise to stay away from vulnerable people for 14 days after the game. There's a small chance that they cancel the season, and a small chance that they choose to play the games, but without fans.
My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.
(03-19-2020, 07:35 AM)mikesez Wrote: To kind of bring this back around to football, next year's NFL season is going to look very different. If were still at this rate of spread in sept. No one will be thinking about football. They'll be thinking about food. Kickoff is 6 months from now. Between treatment and containment we should be well on the downslope by then.
Newsweek has a long article about "continuity of government" plans that include evacuating Washington and "devolving" leadership to second-tier officials in remote and quarantined locations.
https://www.newsweek.com/exclusive-insid...nt-1492878 We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(03-19-2020, 07:35 AM)mikesez Wrote: To kind of bring this back around to football, next year's NFL season is going to look very different. I think we can do social distancing in our stadium. Just tell everyone to spread out. Plenty of space available. (03-19-2020, 08:18 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: Newsweek has a long article about "continuity of government" plans that include evacuating Washington and "devolving" leadership to second-tier officials in remote and quarantined locations. Okay, I think we've now officially hit "apocalyptic panic" mode.
(03-19-2020, 08:25 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:(03-19-2020, 07:35 AM)mikesez Wrote: To kind of bring this back around to football, next year's NFL season is going to look very different. And it starts getting dangerous because lots of people believe the news and media unquestioningly. Do we need a temporary suspension of opinion pieces in the news and only allow them to report the facts and not their editorialized version of said facts? Such a slippery slope and I don't want that happening... but I also know people are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals.
(03-19-2020, 08:31 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote:(03-19-2020, 08:25 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: I think we can do social distancing in our stadium. Just tell everyone to spread out. Plenty of space available. Revoking the First Amendment is WAAAAY beyond "apocalyptic panic" mode. My answer to that suggestion is NO !!!!!!!
So our first victim of the virus has hit my county. He's a doctor who vacationed in Germany and didn't self-quarantine when he returned because Germany wasn't on a list yet. Panic had already set in here. Now I see it escalating even more.
I wake up every morning and for a blissful few seconds I forget we're all living this nightmare right now. Then it hits me. (03-19-2020, 08:18 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: Newsweek has a long article about "continuity of government" plans that include evacuating Washington and "devolving" leadership to second-tier officials in remote and quarantined locations. If these jackholes would stop calling it coronavirus..... We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(03-19-2020, 08:25 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:(03-19-2020, 07:35 AM)mikesez Wrote: To kind of bring this back around to football, next year's NFL season is going to look very different. You do know that we have thousands of contingency plans for every conceivable scenario ready to go all the time, yes? Even for relatively minor contagions like this one. You would [BLEEP] your pants if you read what they have planned for when Ebola shows up here. “An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato
(03-19-2020, 08:57 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: So our first victim of the virus has hit my county. He's a doctor who vacationed in Germany and didn't self-quarantine when he returned because Germany wasn't on a list yet. Panic had already set in here. Now I see it escalating even more.The right's new microaggression tactic is an interesting and seemingly effective twist.
I'll play you in ping pong.
(03-19-2020, 07:35 AM)mikesez Wrote: There's a small chance that they cancel the season, and a small chance that they choose to play the games, but without fans. So, basically, business as usual for the Jaguars. Seriously, if we haven't hit the downslope by August, when a call like this would have to be made, it would be because the American healthcare system has totally buckled under pressure and all of the guidelines designed to slow the spread would have failed. We'd be creeping up on martial law at that point. (03-19-2020, 08:31 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: Do we need a temporary suspension of opinion pieces in the news NO. NO NO NO NO NO [BLEEP] NO. There are parts of the Constitution that can be justifiably stretched during a crisis like this, such as the right to peaceably assemble if doing so is a provably unnecessary and major risk to the public good. But jackassing around with freedom of speech, freedom of the press or even freedom of religion? Or, if we're stretching it further, infringing on the Fourth or Fifth Amendments? It's not just a slippery slope. It's jumping off a damn cliff. (03-19-2020, 08:57 AM)americus 2.0 Wrote: If these jackholes would stop calling it coronavirus..... If it prompts Americans to stop drinking that nonsense and support local breweries, I'm all in favor of calling it the Budweiser strain and the Natty Light strain.
(03-19-2020, 08:52 AM)The Real Marty Wrote:(03-19-2020, 08:31 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: And it starts getting dangerous because lots of people believe the news and media unquestioningly. Hey I agree... I'm just saying the media is getting to the point of being the catalyst of panic. We show less advertisements to registered users. Accounts are free; join today!
(03-19-2020, 08:18 AM)Byron LeftTown Wrote: Newsweek has a long article about "continuity of government" plans that include evacuating Washington and "devolving" leadership to second-tier officials in remote and quarantined locations. I got about three paragraphs into this alarmist dreck and had to stop. So let me get this straight: We can conduct school classes and doctor visits via technology, but if Congress quarantines we have to “devolve”. Journalism is dead.
Testing is SO important to stopping this. I have no idea why this is taking so long. The lack of news on this is also disconcerting.
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