Because people like to overreact and then defend their unnecessary overreactions, rather than admit it was no big deal in the first place. 

But, you're right. As has been said many times, 2.58 mil for a backup DB is nothing. Peanuts. 
His vet minimum is 1.5 million. Are we really tripping about that additional 1 mil? Our secondary is cheap right now compared to other position groups. Herndon will be gone before we are paying up to keep Campbell and probably Cisco. 

In fact - Imma stop even giving the topic credence moving forward. 

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In the spirit of moving on, here is a little recap of what the Jags have done with their own FA class and cap from the Daytona paper:

I agree, it's not much for a backup DB, absolutely. But why gurantee that money to a guy who could very easily be cut come training camp once we inevitibly draft 1 or 2 dbs? Let's keep in mind our total cap space at the moment is like 5M, this isn't 2017 where we have money to blow...

Because there’s no guarantee the money saved by cutting Herndon would net you another CB. There’s also no guarantee it would net you another player at all.

He could very easily make the roster like he has the last 5 seasons.

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https://twitter.com/DernestJohnson2/stat...47936?s=20

Wouldn't be surprised if he passes up Hasty as RB2 before the season is over. Will definitely play Special Teams and he was in a stacked RB room on the Browns. Hard to get on the field when you got Chubb and Hunt in front of you. Low mileage on those legs which is good.

The other two additions are Corey Peters and Smoot replacements basically.

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Aren't there a few offensive linemen in the draft that have experience/versatility to play snaps across the offensive line?

Cody Mauch, Andrew Vorhees, Steve Avila, Nick Broeker, Jaxon Kirkland, Blake Freeland and Jarrett Patterson. All would be excellent additions with starting potential as rookies or by 2024 potentially depending on the RD.

Some of those guys could come in as rookies and play the swing tackle role or start at guard/center.

Mauch and Avila being the best bets in RD2 for OT/OG (Mauch) and C/OG (Avila). Broeker and Freeland are RD3 guys with swing tackle ability. Vorhees and Patterson are C/OG options in RD4. Kirkland is a swing tackle option in RD5/RD6.

Another option I like is Joe Tippman out of Wisconsin at Center or Luke Wypler out of Ohio St. at Center. Either one of those guys could probably bounce Luke Fortner over to LG in 2023 as rookies. Which Fortner has experience at from his days at Kentucky. Fortner only had one year of experience at Center coming out of college.

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Tippman has potential to be a very good center and excels in the run game. I agree that Fortner would be very capable of moving to guard due to his experience playing that position at Kentucky.

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Cody Mauch, Andrew Vorhees, Steve Avila, Nick Broeker, Jaxon Kirkland, Blake Freeland and Jarrett Patterson. All would be excellent additions with starting potential as rookies or by 2024 potentially depending on the RD.

Some of those guys could come in as rookies and play the swing tackle role or start at guard/center.

Mauch and Avila being the best bets in RD2 for OT/OG (Mauch) and C/OG (Avila). Broeker and Freeland are RD3 guys with swing tackle ability. Vorhees and Patterson are C/OG options in RD4. Kirkland is a swing tackle option in RD5/RD6.

Another option I like is Joe Tippman out of Wisconsin at Center or Luke Wypler out of Ohio St. at Center. Either one of those guys could probably bounce Luke Fortner over to LG in 2023 as rookies. Which Fortner has experience at from his days at Kentucky. Fortner only had one year of experience at Center coming out of college.

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Tippman has potential to be a very good center and excels in the run game. I agree that Fortner would be very capable of moving to guard due to his experience playing that position at Kentucky.

Unless it's a homeowner pro bowl prospect I don't see the regime trying to displace fortner. I think the plan will be to lock him in the weight room.

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People are so quick to bash rookies for rookie-like play. Fortner is fine where he is.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

I think we need to draft depth in o line for sure, but our starters may already be on the roster. Corner is coming in round 1.

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Fortner is getting locked in the weight room either way. But it would be unwise to not add a high pick or two to the mix, so we have a decent back up plan in case Fortner or Bartch doesn't develop as they hope.
Even the round 1 pick. It's a more important position than nickel at this point.

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My fellow southpaw Mark Brunell will probably always be my favorite Jaguar.

Fortner is getting locked in the weight room either way.  But it would be unwise to not add a high pick or two to the mix, so we have a decent back up plan in case Fortner or Bartch doesn't develop as they hope.
Even the round 1 pick.  It's a more important position than nickel at this point.

Exactly. Hope for the best outcome but plan for the worst outcome. We need the depth anyway. Tippman would be a great addition. He held his own very well two years in a row at Wisconsin. Could probably develop into a guard as well. Not a knock against Fortner. Just reiterating the importance of keeping 16 upright for 17+ games. 

Robinson is honestly my biggest concern over at LT. We're just stuck with him because of his 9.75% cap hit for 2023. He needs to dig his head out of his [BLEEP]. He played like dog [BLEEP] in London and in Detroit in particular. I think 2023 is his last season here. Finally.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

any guard you draft will need to improve greatly.
Bartch and Fortner are both progressing as expected and I expect will continue to improve. Shatley is good enough as a backup behind them

agree on the nickel/cb, theres enough talent to be fine.

Tackle position is where they need to be aggressive. Not much behind Cam and Little, plus you combine that with Cam's injury and also the possibility of being let go next year, and you have a poor position group

Aren't there a few offensive linemen in the draft that have experience/versatility to play snaps across the offensive line?

yes.

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People are so quick to bash rookies for rookie-like play. Fortner is fine where he is.

My takes on Fortner are about having a better than plan B than Shatley if he doesn't take the requisite second year leap in development. Not trying to give up on him or directly replace him. I just want another player with C experience that could slide to the middle if Fortner is getting his QB hit too frequently. 

You don't see me overly concerned about 2nd year development from Lloyd, Walker, and Muma. 
That's because they aren't going to get Trevor hurt if they struggle. This is the reason for the added scrutiny. 
Trevor is the catalyst of our current success  - and I would prioritize protecting him.  

The only alternative I see to that is if this staff believes Tyler Shatley can still play Center significantly better than he played LG last year.

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Fortner is getting locked in the weight room either way.  But it would be unwise to not add a high pick or two to the mix, so we have a decent back up plan in case Fortner or Bartch doesn't develop as they hope.
Even the round 1 pick.  It's a more important position than nickel at this point.

Exactly. Hope for the best outcome but plan for the worst outcome. We need the depth anyway. Tippman would be a great addition. He held his own very well two years in a row at Wisconsin. Could probably develop into a guard as well. Not a knock against Fortner. Just reiterating the importance of keeping 16 upright for 17+ games. 

Robinson is honestly my biggest concern over at LT. We're just stuck with him because of his 9.75% cap hit for 2023. He needs to dig his head out of his [BLEEP]. He played like dog [BLEEP] in London and in Detroit in particular. I think 2023 is his last season here. Finally.

I'd work on an extension with Little right now to make him LT of the future. Don't let him go to free agency. He's going to be a darn good LT. He's a below average RT, and the coaching staff shouldn't be wearing out his body there. Unfortunately, Cam is stuck at LT because of Baalke's boneheaded decision. We need to draft a RT and let Little be the swing tackle. Cam or the RT will inevitably get hurt during the year, so it's good to have a strong swing tackle who'll smoothly take over for Cam next season.

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

People are so quick to bash rookies for rookie-like play. Fortner is fine where he is.

My takes on Fortner are about having a better than plan B than Shatley if he doesn't take the requisite second year leap in development. Not trying to give up on him or directly replace him. I just want another player with C experience that could slide to the middle if Fortner is getting his QB hit too frequently. 

You don't see me overly concerned about 2nd year development from Lloyd, Walker, and Muma. 
That's because they aren't going to get Trevor hurt if they struggle. This is the reason for the added scrutiny. 
Trevor is the catalyst of our current success  - and I would prioritize protecting him.  

The only alternative I see to that is if this staff believes Tyler Shatley can still play Center significantly better than he played LG last year.

Fortner was fine this year and he'll be fine next year unless he regresses, which is unlikely. It's weird that a guy starts every game as a rookie, the team wins, but people are knotted up that he isn't good enough and the proposal is to bring in another guy who will be farther behind him as the solution. If we need a player who could take his place we should go sign Connor McGovern or Ben Jones, not spend a draft pick on another rookie. And I'm a Planet Theory guy, so it's not about a CB or WR, it's that we need to spend those premium picks on the positions we really need to improve like TE, OT, and DT. A G/C pick is fine if we do it 3rd day, but you aren't displacing Fortner with a guy like that, not that you need to anyway. I'm more concerned about LG than C and still wouldn't use a premium pick to take a guy when you could just sign one off the street.

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“An empty vessel makes the loudest sound, so they that have the least wit are the greatest babblers.”. - Plato

People are so quick to bash rookies for rookie-like play. Fortner is fine where he is.

My takes on Fortner are about having a better than plan B than Shatley if he doesn't take the requisite second year leap in development. Not trying to give up on him or directly replace him. I just want another player with C experience that could slide to the middle if Fortner is getting his QB hit too frequently. 

You don't see me overly concerned about 2nd year development from Lloyd, Walker, and Muma. 
That's because they aren't going to get Trevor hurt if they struggle. This is the reason for the added scrutiny. 
Trevor is the catalyst of our current success  - and I would prioritize protecting him.  

The only alternative I see to that is if this staff believes Tyler Shatley can still play Center significantly better than he played LG last year.

This draft should be about fortifying the offensive line. I'd draft three offensive linemen in the first four rounds. Maybe a guard who can play right tackle, a guard who can also play center, and a solid tackle prospect like Darnell Wright. Take a flier on Vorhees as a jar on the shelf, too.

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"I am only an average man, but by George, I work harder at it than the average man." - Teddy Roosevelt

My takes on Fortner are about having a better than plan B than Shatley if he doesn't take the requisite second year leap in development. Not trying to give up on him or directly replace him. I just want another player with C experience that could slide to the middle if Fortner is getting his QB hit too frequently. 

You don't see me overly concerned about 2nd year development from Lloyd, Walker, and Muma. 
That's because they aren't going to get Trevor hurt if they struggle. This is the reason for the added scrutiny. 
Trevor is the catalyst of our current success  - and I would prioritize protecting him.  

The only alternative I see to that is if this staff believes Tyler Shatley can still play Center significantly better than he played LG last year.

This draft should be about fortifying the offensive line. I'd draft three offensive linemen in the first four rounds. Maybe a guard who can play right tackle, a guard who can also play center, and a solid tackle prospect like Darnell Wright. Take a flier on Vorhees as a jar on the shelf, too.

Pretty bold strategy. I think our line problems could be solved between RD2 & RD4 - RD6. I think RD1 is going to be an edge rusher. I think RD3 seems to be the spot to land our need at nickel CB. RD2 is where I think a tackle can be had to play on the right side or our starting guard on the left side. 

RD4 is where you can start drafting more lineman. Especially in the interior. Again, we missed a golden opportunity to get a guy like Jamaree Salyer last year on day three. I hope Baalke doesn't blunder an opportunity like that again in April. Plenty of solid options throughout this class to where you don't have to over invest premium picks. 

We still have to absorb Robinson's deal at LT. We still have to see what Bartch can do as he's coming back from IR but having a solid competitor over there wouldn't hurt this summer to keep him motivated. Scherff was a stop gap signing but it's possible he's gone after this year. We'll need a long term solution there. 

A lot of this is also banking on Walker Little stepping up full time.

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"What do I know of cultured ways, the gilt, the craft and the lie? I, who was born in a naked land and bred in the open sky. The subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing; Rush in and die, dogs - I was a man before I was a king."

My takes on Fortner are about having a better than plan B than Shatley if he doesn't take the requisite second year leap in development. Not trying to give up on him or directly replace him. I just want another player with C experience that could slide to the middle if Fortner is getting his QB hit too frequently. 

You don't see me overly concerned about 2nd year development from Lloyd, Walker, and Muma. 
That's because they aren't going to get Trevor hurt if they struggle. This is the reason for the added scrutiny. 
Trevor is the catalyst of our current success  - and I would prioritize protecting him.  

The only alternative I see to that is if this staff believes Tyler Shatley can still play Center significantly better than he played LG last year.

Fortner was fine this year and he'll be fine next year unless he regresses, which is unlikely. It's weird that a guy starts every game as a rookie, the team wins, but people are knotted up that he isn't good enough and the proposal is to bring in another guy who will be farther behind him as the solution. If we need a player who could take his place we should go sign Connor McGovern or Ben Jones, not spend a draft pick on another rookie. And I'm a Planet Theory guy, so it's not about a CB or WR, it's that we need to spend those premium picks on the positions we really need to improve like TE, OT, and DT. A G/C pick is fine if we do it 3rd day, but you aren't displacing Fortner with a guy like that, not that you need to anyway. I'm more concerned about LG than C and still wouldn't use a premium pick to take a guy when you could just sign one off the street.

LOL

Fortner gave up pressures that made the QB take hits or have to roll out quickly because there was no pocket to step into. 
Ignore that all you wish, I'm not going to pretend I didn't see it too often. 

Adding a LG prior to the 4th round that can potentially beat out Bartch - but also has some Center ability isn't going to cripple any offseason personnel strategy.

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My takes on Fortner are about having a better than plan B than Shatley if he doesn't take the requisite second year leap in development. Not trying to give up on him or directly replace him. I just want another player with C experience that could slide to the middle if Fortner is getting his QB hit too frequently. 

You don't see me overly concerned about 2nd year development from Lloyd, Walker, and Muma. 
That's because they aren't going to get Trevor hurt if they struggle. This is the reason for the added scrutiny. 
Trevor is the catalyst of our current success  - and I would prioritize protecting him.  

The only alternative I see to that is if this staff believes Tyler Shatley can still play Center significantly better than he played LG last year.

Fortner was fine this year and he'll be fine next year unless he regresses, which is unlikely. It's weird that a guy starts every game as a rookie, the team wins, but people are knotted up that he isn't good enough and the proposal is to bring in another guy who will be farther behind him as the solution. If we need a player who could take his place we should go sign Connor McGovern or Ben Jones, not spend a draft pick on another rookie. And I'm a Planet Theory guy, so it's not about a CB or WR, it's that we need to spend those premium picks on the positions we really need to improve like TE, OT, and DT. A G/C pick is fine if we do it 3rd day, but you aren't displacing Fortner with a guy like that, not that you need to anyway. I'm more concerned about LG than C and still wouldn't use a premium pick to take a guy when you could just sign one off the street.

Fortner wasn't fine last year, he was bad.  It was mentioned alsmost every week.  With that said he was a rookie so hopefully he improves.  He was the weakest link on the oline followed by the LG spot.  He were winning last year inspite of his poor rookie play.  

His pff grade matched the eye test.

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/luke-fortner/42028

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You guys argue as if you actually have some say in the matter.

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Hell, I was calling for dude to be benched and Shatley to go back to C.

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You guys argue as if you actually have some say in the matter.

And you oddly seem to have an issue with people discussing offseason roster moves and personnel decisions on a website designed for people to discuss offseason roster moves and personnel decisions.

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You guys argue as if you actually have some say in the matter.

This is a discussion board friend.



Its all in the name

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