Quote:The ultimate question is, is it more cost-effective to deal with drug addicts when they commit other crimes, to fill up our jails with them, or to try to prevent them becoming drug addicts in the first place? That's the question that has to be answered. And that's what I was saying in the first place. If we want to end the war on drugs, we will have to deal with additional drug addicts. Throw them in jail? Put them in treatment programs? Educate our children about the dangers of drugs? When you remove a barrier to taking drugs- the fact that they are illegal- then you will have additional drug addicts and you will have to deal with them somehow.
What I am trying to say is, ending the war on drugs doesn't just have benefits. It has costs as well.
You are completely wrong. You deal with criminals when they commit crimes; being a drug addict has nothing to do with that. I'm addicted to having a house. If I rob a bank to pay for my mortgage then I'm prosecuted for robbery, not for being a housing addict. Using drugs or being a drug addict has nothing to do with being a criminal if we end the war on drugs. Go use all the drugs you want, if you commit an actual crime then we'll deal with you.
Quote:Criminals. Stop excusing their behavior.
Nothing to do with my point.
Quote:You are completely wrong. You deal with criminals when they commit crimes; being a drug addict has nothing to do with that. I'm addicted to having a house. If I rob a bank to pay for my mortgage then I'm prosecuted for robbery, not for being a housing addict. Using drugs or being a drug addict has nothing to do with being a criminal if we end the war on drugs. Go use all the drugs you want, if you commit an actual crime then we'll deal with you.
I get the feeling you are all about incarceration for punishment rather than rehabilitation.
Quote:I get the feeling you are all about incarceration for punishment rather than rehabilitation.
I'm about removing threats from society.
Quote:I'm about removing threats from society.
You didn't say which it is
Quote:![[Image: Why_not_both.jpg]](http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130312013034/random-ness/images/f/f0/Why_not_both.jpg)
Why beat around the bush?
Once addicts commit a crime and go to jail then is it ok to get them help? Or is just the imprisoning an ok use of your money?
Quote:Why beat around the bush?
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
Quote:I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.
I edited my post after a copy/paste fail.
Quote:Why beat around the bush?
Once addicts commit a crime and go to jail then is it ok to get them help? Or is just the imprisoning an ok use of your money?
They should get the same help any other criminal gets with rehabilitation. My point is that millions of us go about our lives drug addicted without resorting to crime. Excusing behavior because the devil made me do it denigrates the rule of law and is detrimental to society.
Quote:They should get the same help any other criminal gets with rehabilitation. My point is that millions of us go about our lives drug addicted without resorting to crime. Excusing behavior because the devil made me do it denigrates the rule of law and is detrimental to society.
It was not about excusing behavior at all. You said something along the lines of "why should my money go to help addicts". All I said was a certain group of people have no problem using their money to incarcerate people but don't want to help people with their money. Drug addiction to hard drugs increases greatly the chance that person will commit crimes. If you help them prior to crimes you reduce that chance. Why wait for the crimes for your money to be put to good use?
Quote:It was not about excusing behavior at all. You said something along the lines of "why should my money go to help addicts". All I said was a certain group of people have no problem using their money to incarcerate people but don't want to help people with their money. Drug addiction to hard drugs increases greatly the chance that person will commit crimes. If you help them prior to crimes you reduce that chance. Why wait for the crimes for your money to be put to good use?
If being an addict is not a crime then I have zero cause to be involved with their lives. If they commit a crime then I do through the CJ system. A good use is not a valid reason to insinuate yourself into someone elses life. Its immoral and unethical to compromise someone else's autonomy because you think differently, even if you ARE right.
Quote:If being an addict is not a crime then I have zero cause to be involved with their lives. If they commit a crime then I do through the CJ system. A good use is not a valid reason to insinuate yourself into someone elses life. Its immoral and unethical to compromise someone else's autonomy because you think differently, even if you ARE right.
That's what I am talking about though. How is it immoral and or unethical to provide support for addicts to reduce the likely hood they eventually commit crimes? I'm not talking about forcing rehabilitation or anything of the like. I am talking about providing the availability of the programs.
You said earlier to you wanted to remove criminals from society. What kind of society do you want that just ignores people until they commit crimes?
Quote:That's what I am talking about though. How is it immoral and or unethical to provide support for addicts to reduce the likely hood they eventually commit crimes? I'm not talking about forcing rehabilitation or anything of the like. I am talking about providing the availability of the programs.
You said earlier to you wanted to remove criminals from society. What kind of society do you want that just ignores people until they commit crimes?
That's exactly what I want, the right to be left alone. It's the core of freedom for you and me to stay out of other people's business.
Quote:That's exactly what I want, the right to be left alone. It's the core of freedom for you and me to stay out of other people's business.
So you then, you are ok with your money being used to provide support for them?
Quote:So you then, you are ok with your money being used to provide support for them?
None more than is needed for incarceration.
Quote:None more than is needed for incarceration.
What's with your love to beat around the bush?
I asked you exactly this and you tiptoed around just saying the above. You mention society but helping people is bad in your society is bad?
Quote:What's with your love to beat around the bush?
I asked you exactly this and you tiptoed around just saying the above. You mention society but helping people is bad in your society is bad?
Let me be clear: I am never in favor of government charity.
Quote:That's exactly what I want, the right to be left alone. It's the core of freedom for you and me to stay out of other people's business.
I have to agree. But I do not see anything wrong with having programs set up by the government that may help reduce future crimes by helping addicts. We aren't talking recreational drug users. Being an addict does not make you a criminal (well, technically it does if drugs are illegal, but not for my example), but it does increase the chances that you will become a criminal.