Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:My point remains. He already told you the manner in which he was using the word. It's a fairly common use of the word weather people like that use or not.

That's the point of asking, to get clarification.

To many people playing dumb in this thread just say what you mean people.

Quote:To many people playing dumb in this thread just say what you mean people.

No kidding!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRd5oucG114

My take, for what it's worth.

 

Blacks do fight an uphill battle. There are things from things in the past that have dictated that. Is it better today then it was, yes, is it still an issue, yes. I think that is the first thing that needs to be recognized. Once that is acknowledged, then there can be positive changes.

 

That being said, I think one of the main things that need to be addressed, (and this covers all races really), is parenting. There is a tremendous lack of it. To many parents cover for their kids when they know they've done a crime. To many "friends" do the same thing. The "rat", "snitch", "nark", etc., needs to fall to the wayside. Nothing can get better when things are hidden. There are many parents who encourage their kids to get into crime. I think parenting is number one overall. Teach responsibility, respect, morals, etc.

 

I hit on the past, history before. I think that there is still a major dislike overall from the black community to the white community based on history, slavery. No white or black person living today is responsible for what other black and white people did generations ago. Heck, when it comes to slavery even blacks in America owned slaves. One of the most prominent owners even went to court to fight to keep a slave who had just become released. Most slaves sold in Africa were sold to people by Africans, so the blame is many, but you ask any school aged kid or random person on the street and they'd tell you it was all done by whites.

Quote:My take, for what it's worth.

 

Blacks do fight an uphill battle. There are things from things in the past that have dictated that. Is it better today then it was, yes, is it still an issue, yes. I think that is the first thing that needs to be recognized. Once that is acknowledged, then there can be positive changes.

 

That being said, I think one of the main things that need to be addressed, (and this covers all races really), is parenting. There is a tremendous lack of it. To many parents cover for their kids when they know they've done a crime. To many "friends" do the same thing. The "rat", "snitch", "nark", etc., needs to fall to the wayside. Nothing can get better when things are hidden. There are many parents who encourage their kids to get into crime. I think parenting is number one overall. Teach responsibility, respect, morals, etc.

 

I hit on the past, history before. I think that there is still a major dislike overall from the black community to the white community based on history, slavery. No white or black person living today is responsible for what other black and white people did generations ago. Heck, when it comes to slavery even blacks in America owned slaves. One of the most prominent owners even went to court to fight to keep a slave who had just become released. Most slaves sold in Africa were sold to people by Africans, so the blame is many, but you ask any school aged kid or random person on the street and they'd tell you it was all done by whites.

 

^^^ this

Quote:Whatever you say man. To me, they acted like lawless, uncivilized, anarchist animals that cared not about the subject at hand but their own gains.

 

 

Quote:To establish humans can't act like a tiger, Monkey, or a lizard while committing crimes because it is impossible.

By definition, they acted as terrorists.

Quote:A lot.

 

It's not just mistaken identity.  There's a lot of things including police misconduct and bad witnesses (including witnesses who lie) that lead to arrests.  If the justice system were so perfect that it only (except in cases of mistaken identity) arrested the bad guys, then we wouldn't need to have innocent until proven guilty, the entire 5th amendment, the right to a fair trial, and a lawyer wouldn't have to be appointed for you if you couldn't afford one.

 

A lot?

 

If someone gave you that answer for statistics you were asking for you would have a field day.

 

You're a joke.  Reading this thread is sad.

Quote:My take, for what it's worth.

 

Blacks do fight an uphill battle. There are things from things in the past that have dictated that. Is it better today then it was, yes, is it still an issue, yes. I think that is the first thing that needs to be recognized. Once that is acknowledged, then there can be positive changes.

 

That being said, I think one of the main things that need to be addressed, (and this covers all races really), is parenting. There is a tremendous lack of it. To many parents cover for their kids when they know they've done a crime. To many "friends" do the same thing. The "rat", "snitch", "nark", etc., needs to fall to the wayside. Nothing can get better when things are hidden. There are many parents who encourage their kids to get into crime. I think parenting is number one overall. Teach responsibility, respect, morals, etc.

 

I hit on the past, history before. I think that there is still a major dislike overall from the black community to the white community based on history, slavery. No white or black person living today is responsible for what other black and white people did generations ago. Heck, when it comes to slavery even blacks in America owned slaves. One of the most prominent owners even went to court to fight to keep a slave who had just become released. Most slaves sold in Africa were sold to people by Africans, so the blame is many, but you ask any school aged kid or random person on the street and they'd tell you it was all done by whites.

I don't think it has much to do with slavery at all.  But the treatment of blacks after slavery.  We're not so far removed from the era of segregation that there aren't any people alive today who not only participated in segregation, but were also victims of it.  And Racism is very much alive and well today.  The difference between today's racism and yesterdays are two things:


1. How far it's allowed to go

2. How people express it.


People today try to be more careful about their racism.  They claim they aren't racist.  "I have black friends" they might say.  Maybe they don't even realize they're racist.  But somewhere inside they see black people as inferior.  They see them as different.  They don't look at them as individuals. When they see a black person the first thing they see is the color of their skin. Now your garden variety racist is practically harmless.  An annoying pest, to be sure.  But when it comes to the police, it's unacceptable because it's dangerous.  


Beyond that, there are still the more hardcore racists out there.  The ones that are only subdued when they can be seen.  But behind closed doors they use the n word, and excuse it by saying "Well rappers say it."  Because we all know that rappers are paragons and examples that should be followed.  It's the old "But Jimmy's dad let him drink alcohol when he was fifteen!"  


Parenting certainly is a major part of the problem when it comes to crime.  It's also a problem when it comes to racism.  Parents pass many of their beliefs on to their children.  Sometimes their children don't listen, and sometimes they do. 


Two other major factors for crime, however, are the war on drugs, and poverty.  Drugs are a quick way to make some money.  They know that there'll be customers.  Because where else are they going to get it?  If someone could go to the store and buy drugs, then dealing drugs wouldn't be a lucrative profession at all.  Poverty itself tends to lead to crime because people want to move up in life.  They want nice things.  And why shouldn't they?  Are they less than anyone else?  People might say "Well, they should work for it like everyone else then!"  And that's true.  The problem is -- not everyone in life starts out on the same difficulty.  Not everyone has parents and teachers who will look out for them.  Not everyone lives in a neighborhood where the options are 'turn to crime' or 'be a victim'.  Much of this is a result of past racial discrimination.  Forget slavery.  For years blacks were forced to drink out of separate drinking fountains, they weren't allowed in various establishments, and they had to sit on the back of the bus.  They were told they weren't good enough to be with the rest of the people, that they were inferior.  Even people who's skin color appeared white, but had one black parent were looked down upon.   They might be able to get away with going into whites only areas, but as soon as anyone figured out that they had a black parent, they got the same treatment.

 

Maybe racists who spout the n word are a dying breed, but those who view blacks as inferior aren't.  Many people still see skin color first.  We have to be the ones to take the first step to stop seeing the color of a person's skin as anything more than a description of what they look like, and instead see the content of their character.  That's how MLK's speech goes isn't it?  

 

Quote:A lot?

 

If someone gave you that answer for statistics you were asking for you would have a field day.

 

You're a joke.  Reading this thread is sad.

 

You're the joke.

 

How would there be any statistics on number of innocent people being arrested?  There's no omniscient source to say if someone is innocent or guilty.  Even people who go to jail, and people who plead guilty aren't always guilty.  


But here's some numbers for you since you are so obsessed with them:


 

Quote: 

 

How prevalent is the phenomenon of innocent people pleading guilty? The few criminologists who have thus far investigated the phenomenon estimate that the overall rate for convicted felons as a whole is between 2 percent and 8 percent. The size of that range suggests the imperfection of the data; but let us suppose that it is even lower, say, no more than 1 percent. When you recall that, of the 2.2 million Americans in prison, over 2 million are there because of plea bargains, we are then talking about an estimated 20,000 persons, or more, who are in prison for crimes to which they pleaded guilty but did not in fact commit.

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives...ad-guilty/


And that's only counting people who plead guilty.

Quote:You're the joke.

 

How would there be any statistics on number of innocent people being arrested?  There's no omniscient source to say if someone is innocent or guilty.  Even people who go to jail, and people who plead guilty aren't always guilty.  


But here's some numbers for you since you are so obsessed with them:


 

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives...ad-guilty/


And that's only counting people who plead guilty.

 

U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia in a 2006 opinion cited an approximate error rate of 0.027 percent.

 

The Judicial system here in the US works pretty good and for the most part it is decided by their "peers" and not the state.
 
Do mistakes happen and innocent people are convicted?  Yes, of course, no system is perfect. Anyone that doubts the system can find a better way.  I don't think rioting will solve your problem.

Quote:I don't think it has much to do with slavery at all.  But the treatment of blacks after slavery.  We're not so far removed from the era of segregation that there aren't any people alive today who not only participated in segregation, but were also victims of it.  And Racism is very much alive and well today.  The difference between today's racism and yesterdays are two things:


1. How far it's allowed to go

2. How people express it.


People today try to be more careful about their racism.  They claim they aren't racist.  "I have black friends" they might say.  Maybe they don't even realize they're racist.  But somewhere inside they see black people as inferior.  They see them as different.  They don't look at them as individuals. When they see a black person the first thing they see is the color of their skin. Now your garden variety racist is practically harmless.  An annoying pest, to be sure.  But when it comes to the police, it's unacceptable because it's dangerous.  


Beyond that, there are still the more hardcore racists out there.  The ones that are only subdued when they can be seen.  But behind closed doors they use the n word, and excuse it by saying "Well rappers say it."  Because we all know that rappers are paragons and examples that should be followed.  It's the old "But Jimmy's dad let him drink alcohol when he was fifteen!"  


Parenting certainly is a major part of the problem when it comes to crime.  It's also a problem when it comes to racism.  Parents pass many of their beliefs on to their children.  Sometimes their children don't listen, and sometimes they do. 

Two other major factors for crime, however, are the war on drugs, and poverty.  Drugs are a quick way to make some money.  They know that there'll be customers.  Because where else are they going to get it?  If someone could go to the store and buy drugs, then dealing drugs wouldn't be a lucrative profession at all.  Poverty itself tends to lead to crime because people want to move up in life.  They want nice things.  And why shouldn't they?  Are they less than anyone else?  People might say "Well, they should work for it like everyone else then!"  And that's true.  The problem is -- not everyone in life starts out on the same difficulty.  Not everyone has parents and teachers who will look out for them.  Not everyone lives in a neighborhood where the options are 'turn to crime' or 'be a victim'.  Much of this is a result of past racial discrimination.  Forget slavery.  For years blacks were forced to drink out of separate drinking fountains, they weren't allowed in various establishments, and they had to sit on the back of the bus.  They were told they weren't good enough to be with the rest of the people, that they were inferior.  Even people who's skin color appeared white, but had one black parent were looked down upon.   They might be able to get away with going into whites only areas, but as soon as anyone figured out that they had a black parent, they got the same treatment.

 

Maybe racists who spout the n word are a dying breed, but those who view blacks as inferior aren't.  Many people still see skin color first.  We have to be the ones to take the first step to stop seeing the color of a person's skin as anything more than a description of what they look like, and instead see the content of their character.  That's how MLK's speech goes isn't it?  

 

Slavery is the root of everything you typed after the first paragraph. So you are wrong to say it has nothing to do with it. Slavery is what put blacks in America behind the eight ball so to speak. And I will say again, it wasn't just whites who bought, sold, or owned slaves.

 

Heck, in the 17th-18th centuries Africans enslaved over 1.5 million white European slaves.

Quote:I don't think it has much to do with slavery at all.  But the treatment of blacks after slavery.  We're not so far removed from the era of segregation that there aren't any people alive today who not only participated in segregation, but were also victims of it.  And Racism is very much alive and well today.  The difference between today's racism and yesterdays are two things:


1. How far it's allowed to go

2. How people express it.


People today try to be more careful about their racism.  They claim they aren't racist.  "I have black friends" they might say.  Maybe they don't even realize they're racist.  But somewhere inside they see black people as inferior.  They see them as different.  They don't look at them as individuals. When they see a black person the first thing they see is the color of their skin. Now your garden variety racist is practically harmless.  An annoying pest, to be sure.  But when it comes to the police, it's unacceptable because it's dangerous.  


Beyond that, there are still the more hardcore racists out there.  The ones that are only subdued when they can be seen.  But behind closed doors they use the n word, and excuse it by saying "Well rappers say it."  Because we all know that rappers are paragons and examples that should be followed.  It's the old "But Jimmy's dad let him drink alcohol when he was fifteen!"  


Parenting certainly is a major part of the problem when it comes to crime.  It's also a problem when it comes to racism.  Parents pass many of their beliefs on to their children.  Sometimes their children don't listen, and sometimes they do. 

Two other major factors for crime, however, are the war on drugs, and poverty.  Drugs are a quick way to make some money.  They know that there'll be customers.  Because where else are they going to get it?  If someone could go to the store and buy drugs, then dealing drugs wouldn't be a lucrative profession at all.  Poverty itself tends to lead to crime because people want to move up in life.  They want nice things.  And why shouldn't they?  Are they less than anyone else?  People might say "Well, they should work for it like everyone else then!"  And that's true.  The problem is -- not everyone in life starts out on the same difficulty.  Not everyone has parents and teachers who will look out for them.  Not everyone lives in a neighborhood where the options are 'turn to crime' or 'be a victim'.  Much of this is a result of past racial discrimination.  Forget slavery.  For years blacks were forced to drink out of separate drinking fountains, they weren't allowed in various establishments, and they had to sit on the back of the bus.  They were told they weren't good enough to be with the rest of the people, that they were inferior.  Even people who's skin color appeared white, but had one black parent were looked down upon.   They might be able to get away with going into whites only areas, but as soon as anyone figured out that they had a black parent, they got the same treatment.

 

Maybe racists who spout the n word are a dying breed, but those who view blacks as inferior aren't.  Many people still see skin color first.  We have to be the ones to take the first step to stop seeing the color of a person's skin as anything more than a description of what they look like, and instead see the content of their character.  That's how MLK's speech goes isn't it? 

I will counter with this short video.

 

https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/...8/?fref=nf

Quote:Slavery is the root of everything you typed after the first paragraph. So you are wrong to say it has nothing to do with it. Slavery is what put blacks in America behind the eight ball so to speak. And I will say again, it wasn't just whites who bought, sold, or owned slaves.

 

Heck, in the 17th-18th centuries Africans enslaved over 1.5 million white European slaves.

 

Where did I say slavery has nothing to do with it?  I said that it doesn't have much to do with slavery.


It doesn't matter that a minority of blacks owned slaves.  It doesn't matter that Africans enslaved Europeans either.  Not every white person owned slaves.  That doesn't excuse the treatment of black people during the years leading up to the civil rights movement.    And it doesn't excuse racism today.

 

Quote:I will counter with this short video.

 

https://www.facebook.com/prageru/videos/...8/?fref=nf

Who's excusing the riots?  Please go ahead and show me.  It seems that it's not enough to say that they're criminals for some people. 

Quote:Where did I say slavery has nothing to do with it?  I said that it doesn't have much to do with slavery.

It doesn't matter that a minority of blacks owned slaves.  It doesn't matter that Africans enslaved Europeans either.  Not every white person owned slaves.  That doesn't excuse the treatment of black people during the years leading up to the civil rights movement.    And it doesn't excuse racism today.

 

Who's excusing the riots?  Please go ahead and show me.  It seems that it's not enough to say that they're criminals for some people. 

Semantics. "It doesn't have much to do with", "has nothing to do with". Very little difference in the two.

 

I didn't say it excused anything. I am stating how blacks were put behind the eight ball due to slavery that started here in America. Are you reading anything I am writing?

Quote:Where did I say slavery has nothing to do with it?  I said that it doesn't have much to do with slavery.

It doesn't matter that a minority of blacks owned slaves.  It doesn't matter that Africans enslaved Europeans either.  Not every white person owned slaves.  That doesn't excuse the treatment of black people during the years leading up to the civil rights movement.    And it doesn't excuse racism today.

 

Who's excusing the riots?  Please go ahead and show me.  It seems that it's not enough to say that they're criminals for some people. 

There is a fringe group going along the lines of "this is the kind of thing that happens when people feel beaten down and ignored etc.." I believe it's just a fringe group. Most rational people realize there is no excuse for wrecking your city.

Quote:Semantics. "It doesn't have much to do with", "has nothing to do with". Very little difference in the two.

 

I didn't say it excused anything. I am stating how blacks were put behind the eight ball due to slavery that started here in America. Are you reading anything I am writing?

 

It's not semantics at all.


It doesn't have much to do with slavery -- is slavery one of the causes?  Sure.  But it's not a direct cause.  The direct cause is the treatment of blacks in the years before the civil rights movement.  You know, the period of time in which many people today were alive for, or who have parents who were alive for and experienced the discrimination for themselves?


You say: 


 

Quote: 

 

I hit on the past, history before. I think that there is still a major dislike overall from the black community to the white community based on history, slavery. No white or black person living today is responsible for what other black and white people did generations ago. 

Most of that dislike doesn't come from slavery.  It comes from the treatment after the years of slavery.  And even the treatment today.  What does Africans enslaving Europeans have to do with the treatment of black people in the 1950's?

Quote:Where did I say slavery has nothing to do with it?  I said that it doesn't have much to do with slavery.

It doesn't matter that a minority of blacks owned slaves.  It doesn't matter that Africans enslaved Europeans either.  Not every white person owned slaves.  That doesn't excuse the treatment of black people during the years leading up to the civil rights movement.    And it doesn't excuse racism today.

 

Who's excusing the riots?  Please go ahead and show me.  It seems that it's not enough to say that they're criminals for some people. 

http://www.breitbart.com/big-journalism/...ore-riots/

Quote:It's not semantics at all.

It doesn't have much to do with slavery -- is slavery one of the causes?  Sure.  But it's not a direct cause.  The direct cause is the treatment of blacks in the years before the civil rights movement.  You know, the period of time in which many people today were alive for, or who have parents who were alive for and experienced the discrimination for themselves?


You say: 


 

Most of that dislike doesn't come from slavery.  It comes from the treatment after the years of slavery.  And even the treatment today.  What does Africans enslaving Europeans have to do with the treatment of black people in the 1950's?

Blacks were brought to this country as slaves. That's where and how the mistreatment started and why some whites still have that superiority complex, and why blacks still harbor that hatred. Everything stemmed from that.

 

I posted about the 17th-18th centuries, not 1950's. I brought that up to show that many Africans who owned those slaves ended up having descendants who themselves were slaves (who were sold into slavery by their own people no less). There's a hatred to slavery though only towards whites, and not anyone else.

Quote:Where did I say slavery has nothing to do with it?  I said that it doesn't have much to do with slavery.

It doesn't matter that a minority of blacks owned slaves.  It doesn't matter that Africans enslaved Europeans either.  Not every white person owned slaves.  That doesn't excuse the treatment of black people during the years leading up to the civil rights movement.    And it doesn't excuse racism today.

 

Who's excusing the riots?  Please go ahead and show me.  It seems that it's not enough to say that they're criminals for some people. 

You did not watch the video did you