Quote:People also run because they have something to hide. In the case of Freddy Gray, he was not even a suspect until he ran (according the reports I have seen). His actions however did draw the attention of the police in his direction in the 1st place. His distrust of the police might have something to do with his lengthy rap sheep perhaps?
Look I do not condone what happened to this young man one bit. Furthermore if Gray was as speculated given a "rough ride" then the officers in the van should face trial for involuntary manslaughter. Regardless he was not some innocent bystander chosen at random for a ride to the police station.
Freddie Gray was trying to avoid police. The only thing he had on him that they would have arrested him for was a knife (which some reports say was a switchblade, although the official police report states that it was a spring-assisted knife). People shouldn't have to be concerned for their wellbeing when they see a police officer. They should feel safe.
Quote:Right.. Because ALL police officers are crooked and shouldn't be trusted. Let's not act like that's the actual case. A couple of rotten apples does NOT spoil the bunch.. This country would be the old west Tombstone without them and the vast majority of these officers are doing their jobs to the best of their ability and are honest about it.. Black criminals do NOT represent black people in general and crooked cops do NOT represent our country's police force.
When your experience with the police is not a good one, you start to distrust them. Especially because of the power they wield. They can legally detain any of your possessions if they so much as suspect you of doing criminal activity, and never even charge you with anything. Police have a lot of power. When that power is abused, it makes people distrustful. Especially when many cops aren't held accountable for their actions. (And sadly the ones that are, tend to be the honest ones who didn't actually do anything wrong)
Quote:Hey, you are right!
Maryland law makes it illegal to "wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind" -- including switchblades -- "concealed on or about the person."
Freddie Gray was carrying a concealed switchblade and fled from Maryland officers. The arrest record shows he was arrested on a weapons charge.
Wasn't a switchblade according to the police report.|
But hey! I guess that means he was a career criminal and should have died for it. That's your logic.
Quote:Hey, you are right!
Maryland law makes it illegal to "wear or carry a dangerous weapon of any kind" -- including switchblades -- "concealed on or about the person."
Freddie Gray was carrying a concealed switchblade and fled from Maryland officers. The arrest record shows he was arrested on a weapons charge.
According to the police, he made eye contact and then ran.
http://buerklelawfirm.com/?p=234
It is established this is not probable cause but you have already established, at a minimum, a financial reason for seeing the "bright side" in a death of a person so I don't foresee you being reasonable at all.
Anytime someone dies in police custody it's a problem and needs to be investigated to the full degree. That's a separate issue from what happened in Baltimore yesterday.
Quote:Anytime someone dies in police custody it's a problem and needs to be investigated to the full degree. That's a separate issue from what happened in Baltimore yesterday.
What happened in Baltimore yesterday was terrible. It was an example of people who took advantage of the situation to loot from businesses (and burned down a CVS) There's no good excuse for violence. They looted a liquor store, the mall, and several other businesses not because of the incident but because police would be too busy with everything else to arrest them for looting.
Quote:According to the police, he made eye contact and then ran.
http://buerklelawfirm.com/?p=234
It is established this is not probable cause but you have already established, at a minimum, a financial reason for seeing the "bright side" in a death of a person so I don't foresee you being reasonable at all.
If only we could all live in the happy, utopian, "everybody's a good, useful person who doesn't do anything wrong" world you live in. Then maybe we wouldn't have violent riots and meaningless destruction of private property.
Quote:So you're saying the cops shouldn't try to give people a reason to actually trust them? Because hey! As long as you surrender, you (probably) won't be shot! (you might mysteriously die in a van though)
That's not what I'm saying at all, but go ahead and pretend I did if you think it makes your argument stronger.
Again, I ask you how many of these deaths occurred "mysteriously" in a van after a peaceful surrender as opposed to being shot dead on the street or in the van after a confrontation with the police? Right or wrong, the police have the upper hand in an arrest situation, and the chances of dying at the hands of cop go up exponentially when you decide to fight with one or run from one.
Quote:No, but it does mean that arrest records are pretty meaningless in the long of it. Being arrested does NOT make you a criminal.
But that's not what you were responding to. He asked you for the numbers to back up your statement and you replied that everyone is innocent until proven guilty....
Quote:If only we could all live in the happy, utopian, "everybody's a good, useful person who doesn't do anything wrong" world you live in. Then maybe we wouldn't have violent riots and meaningless destruction of private property.
I get it, you have no value for life and have admitted as such but what part of "not probable cause" do you not understand? Is it the part the does not end up with a person dead?
Quote:
That's not what I'm saying at all, but go ahead and pretend I did if you think it makes your argument stronger.
Again, I ask you how many of these deaths occurred "mysteriously" in a van after a peaceful surrender as opposed to being shot dead on the street or in the van after a confrontation with the police? Right or wrong, the police have the upper hand in an arrest situation, and the chances of dying at the hands of cop go up exponentially when you decide to fight with one or run from one.
But that's not what you were responding to. He asked you for the numbers to back up your statement and you replied that everyone is innocent until proven guilty....
Sure that's what you're saying. At least that's how it reads to me.
Yes, that's exactly what I was responding to. But go ahead and pretend it wasn't if you think it makes your argument stronger. Being arrested doesn't make you guilty of a crime. You don't need numbers to support that -- because it's the law. You're innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.
Quote:
That's not what I'm saying at all, but go ahead and pretend I did if you think it makes your argument stronger.
Again, I ask you how many of these deaths occurred "mysteriously" in a van after a peaceful surrender as opposed to being shot dead on the street or in the van after a confrontation with the police? Right or wrong, the police have the upper hand in an arrest situation, and the chances of dying at the hands of cop go up exponentially when you decide to fight with one or run from one.
But that's not what you were responding to. He asked you for the numbers to back up your statement and you replied that everyone is innocent until proven guilty....
I don't see how someone dying while under police custody should even be a remote chance regardless of circumstance. They are in custody they should be facing trial not death.
Quote:I don't see how someone dying while under police custody should even be a remote chance regardless of circumstance. They are in custody they should be facing trial not death.
You are implying it was the cops intention of letting him die or that they murdered him. Stop that. You have no evidence of that happening.
Quote:You are implying it was the cops intention of letting him die or that they murdered him. Stop that. You have no evidence of that happening.
He died of a severed spinal chord while in police custody. Current evidence is he had 80% of his spinal chord severed at some point while being in police custody. You are embarrassing yourself.
Quote:He died of a severed spinal chord while in police custody. Current evidence is he had 80% of his spinal chord severed at some point while being in police custody. You are embarrassing yourself.
Don't forget that he asked for medical attention, and didn't get it for 45 minutes.
Quote:Don't forget that he asked for medical attention, and didn't get it for 45 minutes.
Well he did look at a cop and then run......
Quote:I don't see how someone dying while under police custody should even be a remote chance regardless of circumstance. They are in custody they should be facing trial not death.
Who is arguing with you on this matter?
I see, myself included posters saying don't put your self in the situation to get arrested in the first place. Let's discuss that.
Quote:Who is arguing with you on this matter?
I see, myself included posters saying don't put your self in the situation to get arrested in the first place. Let's discuss that.
Do you think police only arrest guilty people?
Quote:Do you think police only arrest guilty people?
No and you are avoiding the question.
Quote:No and you are avoiding the question.
No I'm not avoiding the question.
How do you avoid getting arrested, if innocent people get arrested?
Quote:Who is arguing with you on this matter?
I see, myself included posters saying don't put your self in the situation to get arrested in the first place. Let's discuss that.
We are talking about deaths, not arrests. Though in the case that sparked this conversation in general, there was no probable cause.
Quote:He died of a severed spinal chord while in police custody. Current evidence is he had 80% of his spinal chord severed at some point while being in police custody. You are embarrassing yourself.
That is great. But do you have any evidence that the police did it intentionally? You don't? Right, because you are speculating.