Quote:There is a fringe group going along the lines of "this is the kind of thing that happens when people feel beaten down and ignored etc.." I believe it's just a fringe group. Most rational people realize there is no excuse for wrecking your city.
That's the whole thing I don't understand about trashing your city. It's your home, your neighbors, friends, etc....Why do that to the people you are with every day?
It's definitely not helping people see your point in a positive light.
The other point that needs to be brought up is that when a crime is committed in some neighborhoods, people are against "ratting" them out. The people that are there to take away the bad guys cant help you because you wont let them.
Quote:That's the whole thing I don't understand about trashing your city. It's your home, your neighbors, friends, etc....Why do that to the people you are with every day?
It's definitely not helping people see your point in a positive light.
The other point that needs to be brought up is that when a crime is committed in some neighborhoods, people are against "ratting" them out. The people that are there to take away the bad guys cant help you because you wont let them.
It's like the Preachers that were with the mayor here the other day going on about doing something about the gangs. I couldn't help but think how is anyone else supposed to stop the gangs when no one in the gang prone neighbors will do anything about them first???
Quote:That's the whole thing I don't understand about trashing your city. It's your home, your neighbors, friends, etc....Why do that to the people you are with every day?
It's definitely not helping people see your point in a positive light.
The other point that needs to be brought up is that when a crime is committed in some neighborhoods, people are against "ratting" them out. The people that are there to take away the bad guys cant help you because you wont let them.
It's not about making a point. It's about opportunistic or pure rage mentality I think.
It's definitely a systemic problem where it's the us against them mentality for some and with others it's the it's safer if I don't rat them out because if it doesn't stick or even if it does revenge could be taken in the case of gang types.
Quote:It's not about making a point. It's about opportunistic or pure rage mentality I think.
It's definitely a systemic problem where it's the us against them mentality for some and with others it's the it's safer if I don't rat them out because if it doesn't stick or even if it does revenge could be taken in the case of gang types.
It's not us against them though in this case. If more people were able to understand the problems, more people would be willing to help. I saw a lot of support for body cameras for all cops, and I'm willing to bet that in time that will happen...but don't kill your chances by making the problem worse.
I understand why they don't do it, but if more people were finally willing to take a stand and do it, the problem would be solved pretty quickly. If my next door neighbor was doing illegal stuff out of his home and I'm best friends with him, I dont care....I'm calling the cops. The safety of my family is more important than that.
End the war on drugs and I'd guess at least 75% of the gangs are out of business in the morning.
Quote:It's not us against them though in this case. If more people were able to understand the problems, more people would be willing to help. I saw a lot of support for body cameras for all cops, and I'm willing to bet that in time that will happen...but don't kill your chances by making the problem worse.
I understand why they don't do it, but if more people were finally willing to take a stand and do it, the problem would be solved pretty quickly. If my next door neighbor was doing illegal stuff out of his home and I'm best friends with him, I dont care....I'm calling the cops. The safety of my family is more important than that.
Oh I agree with you completely. That was just my perspective as to why they don't rat.
Quote:End the war on drugs and I'd guess at least 75% of the gangs are out of business in the morning.
I doubt it. There will always be drugs that will be illegal....people always find a way to make more money.
Quote:I doubt it. There will always be drugs that will be illegal....people always find a way to make more money.
I think he's right that it would put a huge dent into things.
Quote:I doubt it. There will always be drugs that will be illegal....people always find a way to make more money.
Just look at what happened to the mobs after ending prohibition if you need some evidence. Sure they didn't all go away but it severely reduced their influence and income to the point today they are mostly just folk tales.
Quote:It's definitely not helping people see your point in a positive light.
I often times think that is the actual purpose, I remember reading about Ferguson that most of the actual rioters weren't even from Ferguson, if that's so, then your first statement starts to make sense. If they aren't from that city then they could care less if that city is destroyed.
Quote:Just look at what happened to the mobs after ending prohibition if you need some evidence. Sure they didn't all go away but it severely reduced their influence and income to the point today they are mostly just folk tales.
The end of prohibition was in 1933. The mobs got a lot done from the 50's to the 80's really.
Quote:The end of prohibition was in 1933. The mobs got a lot done from the 50's to the 80's really.
Trafficking coke. Then crack came along.
Quote:
That's not what I'm saying at all, but go ahead and pretend I did if you think it makes your argument stronger.
Again, I ask you how many of these deaths occurred "mysteriously" in a van after a peaceful surrender as opposed to being shot dead on the street or in the van after a confrontation with the police? Right or wrong, the police have the upper hand in an arrest situation, and the chances of dying at the hands of cop go up exponentially when you decide to fight with one or run from one.
But that's not what you were responding to. He asked you for the numbers to back up your statement and you replied that everyone is innocent until proven guilty....
But that is a problem. We can't just say right or wrong and continue on with our sentence. The public won't allow it. Technology won't allow. Police are going to have to change how they do things or this will get progressively worse. That is reality. Cops no longer have the upper hand (at least not completely). Technology is starting to even things out. They are going to have more and more trouble getting away with abusing their powers.
Quote:But that is a problem. We can't just say right or wrong and continue on with our sentence. The public won't allow it. Technology won't allow. Police are going to have to change how they do things or this will get progressively worse. That is reality. Cops no longer have the upper hand (at least not completely). Technology is starting to even things out. They are going to have more and more trouble getting away with abusing their powers.
I agree, but when can we talk about the root of the problem. Stop breaking the law and all of this will be moot.
Quote: I agree, but when can we talk about the root of the problem. Stop breaking the law and all of this will be moot.
That is a complicated issue. And you can certainly work towards both. It doesn't have to be either or. We shouldn't as a society say well if you didn't break the law (like look at a cop and run) then you wouldn't die. When that happens you create distrust. When you create distrust then it becomes us vs. them. We need to start coming together. You don't bridge the gap by saying one side has to change. You bridge the gap by saying we have things we need to work on and you have things you need to work on.
Quote:End the war on drugs and I'd guess at least 75% of the gangs are out of business in the morning.
Most gangs survive on robberies, burglaries, and thefts. No way that happens.
Quote:Most gangs survive on robberies, burglaries, and thefts. No way that happens.
I respect your opinion you're police so you would know more than myself. However I've always been lead to believe and the few idiots I've know who were associated with street level gangs got the majority of their funding from narcotic trafficking and dealing. Perhaps 75% is to high of a number so I'll rephrase, a good level of gangs would be out of business?
Quote:I respect your opinion you're police so you would know more than myself. However I've always been lead to believe and the few idiots I've know who were associated with street level gangs got the majority of their funding from narcotic trafficking and dealing. Perhaps 75% is to high of a number so I'll rephrase, a good level of gangs would be out of business?
Or just figure out another way to make money illegally.
Quote:Trafficking coke. Then crack came along.
Loan sharking, gambling, prostitution, extortion, controlling unions, there's a lot of stuff the mob made money off of besides drugs. They made many millions off the gas tax scam in New Jersey.
Quote:I respect your opinion you're police so you would know more than myself. However I've always been lead to believe and the few idiots I've know who were associated with street level gangs got the majority of their funding from narcotic trafficking and dealing. Perhaps 75% is to high of a number so I'll rephrase, a good level of gangs would be out of business?
Absolutely agree. But you still have to compare the benefit of ending the war on drugs to the cost to society of ending the war on drugs. It won't all be beneficial. There would probably be an increase in addiction. And since you are against big government, I assume you would probably also oppose the government setting up treatment programs for all the addicts that are created by legalized drugs.