Quote:So you can't explain how he ended up dead with absolutely no misconduct by police?
Apparently it's okay to call Freddie Gray a career criminal, and say his death 'saved the taxpayers a lot of money' and he deserves no sympathy, but it's not okay to say that there was police misconduct involved in the incident, and that if police had acted appropriately, Freddie Gray would probably still be alive. I'm not the one making accusations as to exactly what happened. What we DO know is that Freddie Gray didn't get medical attention for 45 minutes after asking for it. At the very least the police didn't call for medical help, and the police were negligent. You also apparently can't say that the police have acted improperly in many situations.
Bchbunnie didn't say that, I said that. She may sympathize, she may not.. I won't, but that is from me, not her.
If there was misconduct and there is evidence of it, it will be brought to court and justice will be served. As of now, there is no trial set nor sufficient evidence to say either way. So why you are so readily convicting the officers without proper evidence is absurd.
Quote:Suspicious behavior is probable cause enough to be questioned. The questioning lead to an arrest. This is sound police work. What happened next is open to an investigation. Stop pretending that Freddy Gray did not break the law in the first place.
I posted this earlier:
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://buerklelawfirm.com/?p=234' title="External link">http://buerklelawfirm.com/?p=234</a>
It says fleeing from a cop is not legally probable cause.
Quote:To take that and come to the conclusion that someone is "gleeful" about the death of a human being is a reach.
I don't agree with his position that all life is not valued equally. I think there's potential for redemption for even the most vile criminals among us to some extent. The fact that this man died is a tragedy for those who knew him. Still, it doesn't justify what has transpired in Baltimore since his death.
You are right and I edited my response to your first question to me that it was possible I was letting emotions get in the way.
Quote:I posted this earlier:
<a class="bbc_url" href='http://buerklelawfirm.com/?p=234' title="External link">http://buerklelawfirm.com/?p=234</a>
It says fleeing from a cop is not legally probable cause.
From you own posting:
In a recent 3rd Circuit Decision, an Federal Appeals Court held that a defendant’s flight from Officers who are seeking to stop and talk with him does not elevate “reasonable suspicion” to “probable cause” to arrest.
His fleeing was reasonable suspicion to question him.
A convicted felon caring a knife was probable cause to arrest him.
Fleeing from the police on foot is not a crime unless you are witholding information attaining to an investigation or leading up to an investigation. Fleeing from the police in a vehicle can garner a class 5 felony in most states as long as their lights and sirens are activated.
Quote:Bchbunnie didn't say that, I said that. She may sympathize, she may not.. I won't, but that is from me, not her.
If there was misconduct and there is evidence of it, it will be brought to court and justice will be served. As of now, there is no trial set nor sufficient evidence to say either way. So why you are so readily convicting the officers without proper evidence is absurd.
Bchbunnie was responding to my response to you.
The Police Commissioner already admitted that the police failed to get Gray medical attention in a timely manner. We also know that police did not follow procedure in buckling him in. At the very least it is negligence. And that is misconduct. That's from the Commissioner. Not from a Gray family attorney.
Quote:So you can't explain how he ended up dead with absolutely no misconduct by police?
Apparently it's okay to call Freddie Gray a career criminal, and say his death 'saved the taxpayers a lot of money' and he deserves no sympathy, but it's not okay to say that there was police misconduct involved in the incident, and that if police had acted appropriately, Freddie Gray would probably still be alive. I'm not the one making accusations as to exactly what happened. What we DO know is that Freddie Gray didn't get medical attention for 45 minutes after asking for it. At the very least the police didn't call for medical help, and the police were negligent. You also apparently can't say that the police have acted improperly in many situations.
What part of "I do not know" do you not understand? It's a pretty straightforward statement I would think. Can you tell me you know with 100% certainty what happened...leaving assumptions out of it? Nope...you can't either. What is wrong with letting the facts come out before convicting anyone? Innocent until proven guilty, remember?
Can you please try to keep the discussion we are having to what has actually been said as opposed to trying to make it about what you want to pretend I'm saying? I have never said that there was no police misconduct involved in this situation. Not once..at all, have I ever said that. Nor have I ever said he deserved to die, or anything about him being a career criminal. It's hard to take any of what you are saying seriously if you just keep making things up as you go along. If you want to have a discussion about what I've actually said, we can do that, but if you are going to keep playing make believe, then I'm finished with you and this conversation.
Quote:Bchbunnie was responding to my response to you.
The Police Commissioner already admitted that the police failed to get Gray medical attention in a timely manner. We also know that police did not follow procedure in buckling him in. At the very least it is negligence. And that is misconduct. That's from the Commissioner. Not from a Gray family attorney.
It will be used in court for the trial I am sure, but you can't make a conviction with a simple statement from a single person. Wait for the trial and verdict. He is the Police Commissioner commenting on the event, not the judge and jury.
Quote:Does that mean that no one should be arrested ever because they are all innocent until it's proved otherwise?
Quote:Bchbunnie was responding to my response to you.
The Police Commissioner already admitted that the police failed to get Gray medical attention in a timely manner. We also know that police did not follow procedure in buckling him in. At the very least it is negligence. And that is misconduct. That's from the Commissioner. Not from a Gray family attorney.
So from my one question to you about something you wrote in response to him automatically means I hold his stance in every other post he made?? Wow. I mean...just wow.
Quote:What part of "I do not know" do you not understand? It's a pretty straightforward statement I would think. Can you tell me you know with 100% certainty what happened...leaving assumptions out of it? Nope...you can't either. What is wrong with letting the facts come out before convicting anyone? Innocent until proven guilty, remember?
Can you please try to keep the discussion we are having to what has actually been said as opposed to trying to make it about what you want to pretend I'm saying? I have never said that there was no police misconduct involved in this situation. Not once..at all, have I ever said that. Nor have I ever said he deserved to die, or anything about him being a career criminal. It's hard to take any of what you are saying seriously if you just keep making things up as you go along. If you want to have a discussion about what I've actually said, we can do that, but if you are going to keep playing make believe, then I'm finished with you and this conversation.
I'll take this line by line.
Nowhere did I state that we 100% know what happened.
The
only thing I've said is that it's clear that there was police misconduct on some level.
This is admitted by the police commissioner himself.
I've made
no speculation anywhere as to the level of misconduct, and in fact have stated it may be as simple as them not getting Gray medical attention in time.
The simple fact is, nobody should have to worry about their well being while in police custody.
If they didn't, people might actually trust the police.
And then people would have no reason to run in the first place.
If you went to the police, and they refused to help... would you go to them again if something came up? |
If police mistreated you before, would you trust them when you see them on the street?
If they arrested you for a crime you didn't commit, would you trust them when you see them? Or would you want to stay away from them?
Quote:
So from my one question to you about something you wrote in response to him automatically means I hold his stance in every other post he made?? Wow. I mean...just wow.
Wow is right. I have no idea where you get that I'm implying that you said these things. JW is the one who said all of that. But how am I supposed to explain what I meant, without including what JW said, when I was initially responding to JW with the comment you responded to?
Just to be clear, I'm not lumping you and JW in as one and the same.
Quote:From you own posting:
In a recent 3rd Circuit Decision, an Federal Appeals Court held that a defendant’s flight from Officers who are seeking to stop and talk with him does not elevate “reasonable suspicion” to “probable cause” to arrest.
His fleeing was reasonable suspicion to question him.
A convicted felon caring a knife was probable cause to arrest him.
Hmm I stand correct. Read that in a dyslexic manner it seems.
Quote:Wow is right. I have no idea where you get that I'm implying that you said these things. JW is the one who said all of that. But how am I supposed to explain what I meant, without including what JW said, when I was initially responding to JW with the comment you responded to?
Just to be clear, I'm not lumping you and JW in as one and the same.
You included them in response to me, without stating that he is the one that said it...of course you weren't trying to imply I felt the same way. At all.
Quote:He died of a severed spinal chord while in police custody. Current evidence is he had 80% of his spinal chord severed at some point while being in police custody. You are embarrassing yourself.
I fully admit that I'm not well versed on this case but how has it been proven that his initial spinal chord injury occurred in police custody? Could he have not had a pre-existing injury that was worsened in a police struggle? I'm not justifying the death in police custody, far from it, but I'm just trying to understand this.
Quote:I fully admit that I'm not well versed on this case but how has it been proven that his initial spinal chord injury occurred in police custody? Could he have not had a pre-existing injury that was worsened in a police struggle? I'm not justifying the death in police custody, far from it, but I'm just trying to understand this.
I'm not versed the medical knowledge required to answer that. I suppose it is possible sure. It does stand to reason the significant force is required to sever a spinal chord causing paralysis and crushing a voice box. I think it's the two together that leads people to believe it occurred at some point during the event. I think the whole report isn't due for another month or so I read?
Quote:I'm not versed the medical knowledge required to answer that. I suppose it is possible sure. It does stand to reason the significant force is required to sever a spinal chord causing paralysis and crushing a voice box. I think it's the two together that leads people to believe it occurred at some point during the event. I think the whole report isn't due for another month or so I read?
Last night the news made a mention of some Maryland law about an officers bill of rights they don't even give testimony until after 10 days. It could be a while until the details come out which doesn't help to calm the mobs.
Quote:Last night the news made a mention of some Maryland law about an officers bill of rights they don't even give testimony until after 10 days. It could be a while until the details come out which doesn't help to calm the mobs.
I know 5 of the 6 (I think) have given testimonies and 1 had invoked his right to not give a testimony. Thanks to the city burning little info is being reported on the actual case.
Cant we all just get along ?
Quote:Cant we all just get along ?
Never! That's what be an American is all about! :teehee:
Quote:Right.. Because ALL police officers are crooked and shouldn't be trusted. Let's not act like that's the actual case. A couple of rotten apples does NOT spoil the bunch.. This country would be the old west Tombstone without them and the vast majority of these officers are doing their jobs to the best of their ability and are honest about it.. Black criminals do NOT represent black people in general and crooked cops do NOT represent our country's police force.
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/marylan...tml#page=1
To pay out 6.3 million dollars for police misconduct since 2011 does not exclude a couple of rotten apples.