Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:So in other words, unions are bad for business.

Keep forgetting it takes two to sign a contract. Blah blah blah unions are bad, but never mind the company that signed the dumb contract.


If you signed a contract! Honor it.

By the same token, companies that signed the dumb contracts should start choosing not to renew.  Let the union members throw their temper tantrums and strike.  I would do the same thing that Ronald Reagan did and fire them all and hire replacements.

Quote:By the same token, companies that signed the dumb contracts should start choosing not to renew. Let the union members throw their temper tantrums and strike. I would do the same thing that Ronald Reagan did and fire them all and hire replacements.

Agreed.

Quote:I oppose public sector unions. I also support right to work. Being forced to join a club and pay dues in extortion.

Wendy the welder (non-union) makes $4000/mo

Union gets voted in and Wendy becomes a union member

Wendy's pay goes up to $7000/mo

Union dues are $300/mo


I'm sure Wendy, making a net $2700 more each month feels fleeced by the union

Quote:By the same token, companies that signed the dumb contracts should start choosing not to renew. Let the union members throw their temper tantrums and strike. I would do the same thing that Ronald Reagan did and fire them all and hire replacements.

Nixon tried that with the US Postal Service, but caved in after mail delivery suffered due to US Military members not being able to get the job done.

Quote:Keep forgetting it takes two to sign a contract. Blah blah blah unions are bad, but never mind the company that signed the dumb contract.


If you signed a contract! Honor it.

It seems like a simple concept, doesn't it?

Quote:It seems like a simple concept, doesn't it?

Well they did elect a leader who is notorious for not honoring any contract and he goes into.

I really don't believe in labor unions at all.  I believe there should be a free market for labor.   If you need good workers, you have to pay for them.  If someone who is just as good wants to do the job for less, the company should be able to make a change.   I don't think the work force should have the right to shut down a business if they don't get what they want.  

Quote:Wendy the welder (non-union) makes $4000/mo

Union gets voted in and Wendy becomes a union member

Wendy's pay goes up to $7000/mo

Union dues are $300/mo


I'm sure Wendy, making a net $2700 more each month feels fleeced by the union

For the sake of argument lets use real (no names) examples

Unions are so great that 2 modern day politicians are all time greats and smacked down their respective government unions.

 

1. The Great President Ronald Reagan. Hands down, the greatest president of the modern era, dismantled the air traffic control union and fired thousands. The result was a better system and as stated, one of the reasons he is the greatest president of the modern era.

 

2. Scott Walker. The Wisconsin Governor has smacked down countless unions in the state. He has not only eliminated the deficit, but created a surplus, and refunds were sent to the taxpayers of the state. Walker withstood countless recall campaigns by loser progressive hacks, and is more popular than ever in the state. He is one of the top 3 Governors in the country currently.

 

The US needs more Ronald Reagans and Scott Walkers.

So who in this thread likes unions?

Quote:Unions are so great that 2 modern day politicians are all time greats and smacked down their respective government unions.


1. The Great President Ronald Reagan. Hands down, the greatest president of the modern era, dismantled the air traffic control union and fired thousands. The result was a better system and as stated, one of the reasons he is the greatest president of the modern era.


2. Scott Walker. The Wisconsin Governor has smacked down countless unions in the state. He has not only eliminated the deficit, but created a surplus, and refunds were sent to the taxpayers of the state. Walker withstood countless recall campaigns by loser progressive hacks, and is more popular than ever in the state. He is one of the top 3 Governors in the country currently.


The US needs more Ronald Reagans and Scott Walkers.

Thus is off topic but what the neck happened to walker? I thought he would have been a lock for the top 5

Quote:So who in this thread likes unions?

 

JIB,

 

I appreciate the stated goals of most unions.  I'm happy with my union job.  I have secure employment pretty much until I want to call it a career.  I don't have to worry about having to go from job hunt to job hunt to support my family.

 

I realize that not all unions are equal.  I realize that all unions aren't equally effective.  I understand that some people have had not-so-great experiences with unions for whatever reason.  The same goes for employers, however.  There are some not-so-nice people out there in positions of power in various organizations that can (& do) make life miserable for employees for no good reason other than to further their own agenda.  The "Right to get Fired" push may sound appealing to union-busting types, but it's not all that great for the common employee.

 

Bottom line is that unions donate funds to whoever support their goals.  This is no different from lobbying, or supporting a political candidate.  If a majority of union funds went to Republican entities, we wouldn't even be having this thread.

Quote:By the same token, companies that signed the dumb contracts should start choosing not to renew.  Let the union members throw their temper tantrums and strike.  I would do the same thing that Ronald Reagan did and fire them all and hire replacements.

It's not that easy to get rid of a Union by an employer...Refusing to "negotiate in good faith" is against the  National Labor Relations Act...It's hard for an employer to get rid of a Union once they have had it implemented in their company...Generally, if the contract expires, the Union employees vote to remain under the previous years contract until a new contract is agreed on, voted on (ratified) and signed...My union went from January to Sept last year under the previous contract due to the Union and Company not coming to an agreement...During that time it was rumored that the company wanted rid of the Union, but under NLRA the company can not unilaterally terminate the Union contract without following certain steps which included shutting down  operation for a period of time and reopening under a different company name...I'm trying to find that clause but not having much luck... If the company implements a lockout, the contract has provisions for that too...My Union contract with my employer has a clause in it that says if the current contract expires before a new contract is approved and ratified we automatically stay running under the terms and agreements of the contract that just expired...

 

Some companies and unions will just keep on working even without a contract until an agreement is reached, but both parties must still "negotiate in good faith" and follow the NLRA... It's a lengthy and costly thing for an employer to get rid of the Union, as it will be challenged by the National Labor Board, and most certainly in court...

 

Union employees can vote the Union out any time they want to, but the companies can't urge them to or tell them to or have any type of influence on Union employees voting on anything

 

"  Once private-sector unions are established at workplaces, federal law requires that they remain indefinitely unless employees vote to remove the union or an employer proves that the majority of employees no longer support the union.[178] [179] [180] [181]" 

 

"* Under current federal law that was established in the 1935 Wagner Act, it is against the law for private-sector employers "to refuse to bargain collectively" with unions approved by a majority of employees. The 1947 Taft-Hartley Act imposed the same requirement on unions, creating a "mutual obligation" for unions and employers "to meet at reasonable times and confer in good faith with respect to wages, hours, and other terms and conditions of employment…."[340] [341] [342] [343] [344]"

 

"* Federal law does not require employers and unions to continue negotiating in the face of an impasse. In the 2012 case of <i>Erie Brush v. National Labor Relations Board</i>, a Chicago company stopped negotiating with a newly organized union that insisted on a union security provision that the company opposed. In this case, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia unanimously ruled that the NLRB could not force the company to keep negotiating with the union after they had reached an impasse on this matter.<a class="" href='http://www.justfacts.com/unions.asp#f348'>[348]</a><a class="" href='http://www.justfacts.com/unions.asp#f349'>[349]</a>

<p style="font-family:'Roboto Slab Regular';color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16.8px;"> 

<p style="font-family:'Roboto Slab Regular';color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:16.8px;">* Under rules established by the National Labor Relations Board, most terms of private-sector collective bargaining contracts remain in force even after the contracts expire. This includes wages, hours, employee savings accounts, dues-checkoff provisions (which require employers to deduct union dues from employees' paychecks and submit them to the union), and "other terms and conditions of employment." Some exceptions to this rule are no-strike clauses, arbitration agreements, and management-rights provisions.<a class="" href='http://www.justfacts.com/unions.asp#f350'>[350]</a> <a class="" href='http://www.justfacts.com/unions.asp#f351'>[351]</a> <a class="" href='http://www.justfacts.com/unions.asp#f352'>[352]</a>"

 

http://www.justfacts.com/unions.asp

Quote:So who in this thread likes unions?

They have their good points and they have their bad points...They negotiated our health care plan with the health care provider and it's total [BLEEP], but they also negotiated a big raise when our company only wanted to give us ten cents...the union also has a health and welfare department who facilitates our dental insurance, it sucks but I have yet to find a good dental plan anywhere plus they negotiated with a national vision insurance company which is a very good policy and our combined dental and vision only costs us $5 a week...Ya gotta take the bad [BLEEP] with the good [BLEEP] 

Quote:Wendy the welder (non-union) makes $4000/mo

Union gets voted in and Wendy becomes a union member

Wendy's pay goes up to $7000/mo

Union dues are $300/mo


I'm sure Wendy, making a net $2700 more each month feels fleeced by the union

I don't think there is any occupation that has that kind of disparity.  In your scenario Wendy would be stupid to not fall in line.  Still being forced to join a union is coercion.

Quote:I don't think there is any occupation that has that kind of disparity.  In your scenario Wendy would be stupid to not fall in line.  Still being forced to join a union is coercion.

Not really...It can be a condition of employment just as direct deposit is being forced on people as a condition of employment too...If you don't want to be in a Union the choice to take the job or not to take the job is yours if it's offered to you...If you don't want to be in a Union don't apply for a job with a Unionized company...Pretty simple really

Quote:I don't think there is any occupation that has that kind of disparity.  In your scenario Wendy would be stupid to not fall in line.  Still being forced to join a union is coercion.

Most likely not however there could be in certain situations...If the builders of sea going ships is Union, and they are still not finished with some things, the Union welders, shipfitters, pipe welders et.al can set sail with the ship and continue working as the ship heads back to it's home port...Those kind of things go up as a bid job so workers get paid much more to do that but it's for a limited amount of time...We set sail on my guided missile cruiser after being in a floating dry dock in the Med with workers on board for 6 more weeks...One was from Seattle. a few from the shipyard in charge of the repair, one from Florida, and I can't remember the rest San Diego maybe I dont remember.....There were 20 or so all together making a [BAD WORD REMOVED] pot full of money...

Quote:Not really...It can be a condition of employment just as direct deposit is being forced on people as a condition of employment too...If you don't want to be in a Union the choice to take the job or not to take the job is yours if it's offered to you...If you don't want to be in a Union don't apply for a job with a Unionized company...Pretty simple really

They're taking money another person has earned. It's not the same as direct deposit. It's outright theft.

 

It's no different than having a job in a really bad neighborhood controlled by the mafia. They say you have to pay them, say, $20.00 per week for "protection."  It's no different than a forced union.

 

There is a reason unions are so closely tied with liberals. Liberals love having other people taking care of them. They can't handle their own lives on their own. without unions, or the government, they are utterly lost.

 

There are people out there who are capable of taking care of themselves though. They don't need government, unions, or anyone to handle their affairs. Those people have a right to live their lives unobstructed. They have the right to not have their pockets picked by people who may or may not make decisions that positively affect that individual's life.

 

That's the foremost thing liberals don't understand. Conservatives can take care of themselves. They want the government, unions, and all other losers asking for money to leave them alone. Conservatives do a way better job taking care of themselves and their money than unions and government ever has. They want no part of them. It's not too much to ask. I know that makes no sense to the liberal mind, but it's actually true.

Quote:They're taking money another person has earned. It's not the same as direct deposit. It's outright theft.

 

It's no different than having a job in a really bad neighborhood controlled by the mafia. They say you have to pay them, say, $20.00 per week for "protection."  It's no different than a forced union.

 

There is a reason unions are so closely tied with liberals. Liberals love having other people taking care of them. They can't handle their own lives on their own. without unions, or the government, they are utterly lost.

 

There are people out there who are capable of taking care of themselves though. They don't need government, unions, or anyone to handle their affairs. Those people have a right to live their lives unobstructed. They have the right to not have their pockets picked by people who may or may not make decisions that positively affect that individual's life.

 

That's the foremost thing liberals don't understand. Conservatives can take care of themselves. They want the government, unions, and all other losers asking for money to leave them alone. Conservatives do a way better job taking care of themselves and their money than unions and government ever has. They want no part of them. It's not too much to ask. I know that makes no sense to the liberal mind, but it's actually true.

some of that money is used by the union (mine anyway) to fund the vision and dental insurance we pay $5 weekly for and short term disability we get for free...There are lots of things the union needs money for...My union dues is equal to my hourly rate...If I make $14.00 an hour, my Union dues are $14 a week, If I make $34 an hour, my Union dues are $34 a week...There are all kinds of programs Unions run and the Union dues help pay for them

 

I really don't care about the union either way, but as I said earlier, if someone doesnt want to be in a Union, don't apply for jobs with a Unionized company

 

Unions are useful when working for a tight fisted company doesn't want to give you a decent raise...Instead of ten cent raise, we got 40 cents because of the Union...

 

Gotta take the good with the bad...Ive been in several different Unions and many non Union jobs...Makes no difference to me