Quote:Mine too, every time. I vote my conscience. My views on a candidate don't have to match my union's. I have that choice.
I have my views, and my union has a job to do. I understand that and am fine with it.
Quote:at times I get irritated with the union when I think they aren't doing anything but taking my money and telling me who to vote for, then they come up with some kind of surprise addition to the CBA that I like and then I feel better
Both of you illustrate my point.
Your union doesn't care about you, they are just a money laundering operation.
Quote:Both of you illustrate my point.
Your union doesn't care about you, they are just a money laundering operation.
neither do corporations, they arent any better, at least with a union we get higher wages that companies don't want to pay..no company cares about their employees...they all say they do, but their only concern is the profit which is why Unions were created..If the corporations were not so greedy there would be no use for a Union
Quote:Of course not. I would not have given one penny of my own cash to support HRC or the DNC.
You are right that unions represent their own interests. So now, explain what you think their interests are.
You make it sound as if the only reason they exist is to give money to the Democratic party. If that is all they did, they wouldn't have any members and wouldn't even exist. The men and women in congress who support unions and actively assist in pushing through legislation that continues to aid unions (and their members) get supported. That well of money has to yield some benefits to union members, else it will dry up really fast.
If union members are unhappy with their union's leadership it will get replaced. This happens often. Nationally, our union had a huge turnover a few years ago. Around the same time, our local leadership was ousted and completely replaced. All this while Obama was in the middle of his 8 year stint as president. Think about that.
Quote:Of course not. I would not have given one penny of my own cash to support HRC or the DNC.
You are right that unions represent their own interests. So now, explain what you think their interests are.
You make it sound as if the only reason they exist is to give money to the Democratic party. If that is all they did, they wouldn't have any members and wouldn't even exist. The men and women in congress who support unions and actively assist in pushing through legislation that continues to aid unions (and their members) get supported. That well of money has to yield some benefits to union members, else it will dry up really fast.
If union members are unhappy with their union's leadership it will get replaced. This happens often. Nationally, our union had a huge turnover a few years ago. Around the same time, our local leadership was ousted and completely replaced. All this while Obama was in the middle of his 8 year stint as president. Think about that.
To answer the part in bold, it's all about money. It's actually "easy money" for them and has been going on for decades. They pay politicians, then politicians "pay" them back with favorable legislation. They masquerade as "fighting for workers", yet much of what they claim to "fight for" has been either legislated or is common practice. As an example. Overtime? There is a law for that.
I'll give you guys a hint here. Pay scale isn't determined by unions, it's determined by the private sector. You want a higher salary? You'll get it, but at the expense of losing something else. Perhaps your 401k option(s) aren't very good and the company won't match your contribution, or your healthcare "benefit" might cost a bit more.
The bottom line is, your job is worth "X" number of dollars to a company. The company will pay it out in salary and/or "benefits", it's just a matter of how it's all distributed. A union NEVER gets "more" of anything it just gets a "bigger slice of the pie" directed somewhere else.
The company might agree that you get "more" of something, but it's just because they can have that much "more" to write off on their taxes.
Meanwhile, your "union" isn't really doing anything for you and is extracting money from your paycheck in order to fund itself and it's political interests.
Quote:Both of you illustrate my point.
Your union doesn't care about you, they are just a money laundering operation.
If UPS didn't have a union those folks would be screwed. They kind of are anyway, but would be even moreso than without.
Quote:Both of you illustrate my point.
Your union doesn't care about you, they are just a money laundering operation.
If some hoots are snoots, and some snoots are zoots, then some hoots are definitely zoots. T/F
I'm guessing you may have had a hard time with that question back in school. You are adding extra dots before connecting them to make a conclusion.
If your wife or girlfriend voted democrat and you voted republican it means she doesn't care about you?
Is adherence to a certain political affiliation a requirement to live under your roof? If so, I'd assume that is way worse than paying dues. Kinda like "sold your soul" worse.
Quote:neither do corporations, they arent any better, at least with a union we get higher wages that companies don't want to pay..no company cares about their employees...they all say they do, but their only concern is the profit which is why Unions were created..If the corporations were not so greedy there would be no use for a Union
Not true. I've personally had more than one company try to match (and sometimes exceed) the offer that I received from another company when I chose to leave. I also had one company that was forced to lay me off, and allowed me to use my vacation time that I had (4 weeks) while I searched for other employment rather than just let me go. Even after I found employment, the have (and still do) have me listed as "part time on call" just to keep me on their records should the opportunity for me to go back come up. That way I don't lose seniority or "time with the company" for vacation and other benefits. This was negotiated between me and the company... not a union.
In my opinion, paying a union is wasting your income.
Quote:If some hoots are snoots, and some snoots are zoots, then some hoots are definitely zoots. T/F
I'm guessing you may have had a hard time with that question back in school. You are adding extra dots before connecting them to make a conclusion.
If your wife or girlfriend voted democrat and you voted republican it means she doesn't care about you?
Is adherence to a certain political affiliation a requirement to live under your roof? If so, I'd assume that is way worse than paying dues. Kinda like "sold your soul" worse.
I'm just telling it like it is based on my life experience. Take it as you will.
For the record, I don't know how my wife voted, but I suspect that she probably voted for President Trump. Every one else that lives under my roof didn't vote including 1 dog and 2 cats.
I suspect that I'm much older than you or most posters on this board. Let's just say that I've "seen it all" a time or two.
Quote:Not true. I've personally had more than one company try to match (and sometimes exceed) the offer that I received from another company when I chose to leave. I also had one company that was forced to lay me off, and allowed me to use my vacation time that I had (4 weeks) while I searched for other employment rather than just let me go. Even after I found employment, the have (and still do) have me listed as "part time on call" just to keep me on their records should the opportunity for me to go back come up. That way I don't lose seniority or "time with the company" for vacation and other benefits. This was negotiated between me and the company... not a union.
In my opinion, paying a union is wasting your income.
That is a rare scenario,,,very few companies will give a [BLEEP] about their people...their execs maybe but mid level supervisors down to joe and bill on the production floor who do the actual work aren't even known by upper level management...
I guess it would depend on how you define wasting...I can honestly say I make good money and my Union dues being taken out doesn't hurt me...I honestly don't even miss it...I'm not a solid Union person, but if I am interested in a Union job I'll take it, if I'm interested in a non Union job I'll take it...
Quote:I'm just telling it like it is based on my life experience. Take it as you will.
For the record, I don't know how my wife voted, but I suspect that she probably voted for President Trump. Every one else that lives under my roof didn't vote including 1 dog and 2 cats.
I suspect that I'm much older than you or most posters on this board. Let's just say that I've "seen it all" a time or two.
I'm probably right up there with you...I was born in 68..."Been there done that"
Quote:You may be onto something here.
If we all decided we were going to ride bikes to work from now on, that would save a bundle on road maintenance.
Same thing for airports...who needs them?
Dismantling all the branches of the military would save a ton as well.
Let's also do away with all local law enforcement & firefighters.
Who needs public education when we can all pay for our children to go to private schools?
Those elderly types don't need medicaid/medicare either.
Social security might as well go too, since that helps absolutely nobody.
No more student loans or grants, either. It's either cash on the barrelhead or you won't be attending.
etc.
Gosh only government can build roads, run education and maintain airports. Lucky for us we have one that does all that an more, cause you know private enterprise could never build a road and maintane it, private enterprise could never build and run an airport.....
Quote:
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="jagibelieve" data-cid="962032" data-time="1486938363">
<div>
To answer the part in bold, it's all about money. It's actually "easy money" for them and has been going on for decades. They pay politicians, then politicians "pay" them back with favorable legislation. They masquerade as "fighting for workers", yet much of what they claim to "fight for" has been either legislated or is common practice. As an example. Overtime? There is a law for that.
And where did all this legislation come from? You think corporations and businesses, on their own, thought it would be nice to implement these things? The impetus for all these workplace benefits were from workers organizing, even before they were officially called "unions"
I'll give you guys a hint here. Pay scale isn't determined by unions, it's determined by the private sector. You want a higher salary? You'll get it, but at the expense of losing something else. Perhaps your 401k option(s) aren't very good and the company won't match your contribution, or your healthcare "benefit" might cost a bit more.
Wrong again. Our pay scale is determined by our union and our employer when they meet every 4-6 years to come up with a new CBA. You want to believe there is this magic, equalizing parameter that completely offsets the benefits from negotiated pay, but there just isn't. We have a good match on our 401k with a good choice of investment options for it. Sure, our health care benefits cost a little more than they did 5 years ago, but if your healthcare costs have gone down during the same time I'd like the number of your insurer. I get 5 weeks of paid vacation a year. I get 10 paid holiday days each year. I earn a decent amount of sick leave every year.
The bottom line is, your job is worth "X" number of dollars to a company. The company will pay it out in salary and/or "benefits", it's just a matter of how it's all distributed. A union NEVER gets "more" of anything it just gets a "bigger slice of the pie" directed somewhere else.
This statement is so wrong, it's hard to know where to begin. For starters, you just described a non-union job.
Key point #1: In a union job, the employer doesn't get to decide what your job is worth. That decision is made together with the employer and the representing union.
Key point #2: A union ALWAYS gets more, because it has the authority to bargain for more. It's a "strength in numbers" concept, you know.
The company might agree that you get "more" of something, but it's just because they can have that much "more" to write off on their taxes.
Wait, you just said unions don't get more of anything! As a union employee, I couldn't care less how my employer handles their accounting. More money, more benefits, more job security, and safer working conditions is all I care about.
Meanwhile, your "union" isn't really doing anything for you and is extracting money from your paycheck in order to fund itself and it's political interests.
It's kind of like a broken record at this point. I give up.
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</blockquote>
I'll answer this tomorrow because you are so wrong and misguided on so many things. I would do so now, but I need to decompress and get some sleep so that I can get to my NON-UNION job in just a few hours.
I'll leave you with this though... my NON-UNION job pays better in the same industry than ANY union job. I'll even go so far as to tell you that I pretty much "name my price" to prospective employers. I don't need a corrupt group of democrat money launderers "negotiating" for me.
Quote:That is a rare scenario,,,very few companies will give a [BAD WORD REMOVED] about their people...their execs maybe but mid level supervisors down to joe and bill on the production floor who do the actual work aren't even known by upper level management...
I guess it would depend on how you define wasting...I can honestly say I make good money and my Union dues being taken out doesn't hurt me...I honestly don't even miss it...I'm not a solid Union person, but if I am interested in a Union job I'll take it, if I'm interested in a non Union job I'll take it...
Actually, if you make yourself worthy, not only will you not need some union to do your bidding, but you will likely have multiple opportunities in your profession. The people that say that companies don't care about them and rely upon unions for their jobs HAVE to have those unions in place just to have a job. They are the slackers of society that think taking 3 or 4 days off every month is just fine, and just showing up should guarantee them a raise every so often, regardless of performance. That's how union jobs work. They should call union work what it truly is: corporate welfare. It's what keeps the losers, alcoholics, drug addicts and the just plain lazy employed. I know a bunch of you loser libs are going to pounce all over this saying, "HEY MAN, HEY MAN, at least let the evil corporations are paying for it, not your tax dollars...... he he he he." But once again, like always, you would be wrong. It gets passed along to the consumer in the form of higher prices of goods and services. Something that should cost an American $20.00, costs him $40.00 to support Joe 12 pack and a blunt, along with the losers that keep him employed. America is left with an inferior product for an inflated cost. That's why American cars aren't even relevant anymore. Honda, Toyota, and now Kia, Hyundai, Mazda and Nissan have been out producing any American car for almost 20 years. A person would be a fool to buy a domestic car these days. They're junk compared to the imports. Hopefully Trump gets that mess fixed and makes American cars great again, because they aren't even competitive. And who is to blame for that? Yep, unions. The US has to mass produce junk to pay union wages to dead beats and still compete pricewise with the foreign cars. They have lost and lost big time. Sales statistics back that up. People aren't stupid. Nobody wants to pay extra so some loser can have a job he isn't at half the time and pays a union to keep for him.
Quote:I'm just telling it like it is based on my life experience. Take it as you will.
For the record, I don't know how my wife voted, but I suspect that she probably voted for President Trump. Every one else that lives under my roof didn't vote including 1 dog and 2 cats.
I suspect that I'm much older than you or most posters on this board. Let's just say that I've "seen it all" a time or two.
Quote:I'm probably right up there with you...I was born in 68..."Been there done that"
I was born in 1968 as well, and I'll be tuning 50 next year.
Graduated from Ed White HS. My most fond memory in HS was winning the Jacksonville HS City Chess Championship in 1986. I was the only player that went undefeated, and the trophy still rests atop my computer desk. Later that same year, 4 of us from Ed White won the Amateur Team Southern Chess Championship, and that trophy is still on display at Ed White (at least it was in 2010 when I last visited). They had misplaced the accompanying card with our names on it, but I provided the names to Ed White staff and they said they'd re-print the card.
[side comment: If any of my old friends are reading this and know who I am, PM me and we'll catch up]
Then joined the Navy and spent 6 years in.
Got an AA degree from FCCJ, and that was as far as I got through college.
Worked many different jobs in my life, starting from a paper route at age 13. Stock crew at Winn-Dixie, Sear's warehouse worker followed. After my years in the Navy, I worked as a lane mechanic in a bowling center, a technical support representative (& later supervisor) for AOL, a vault accountant for Loomis Fargo, an ice rink technician, and finally a postal worker. About the only thing left on my bucket list was to have a job in a zoo...maybe after I retire.
Been married twice, father of one son.
Not sure if that qualifies as having seen it all, but I have been around the block at least.
Quote:Actually, if you make yourself worthy, not only will you not need some union to do your bidding, but you will likely have multiple opportunities in your profession. The people that say that companies don't care about them and rely upon unions for their jobs HAVE to have those unions in place just to have a job. They are the slackers of society that think taking 3 or 4 days off every month is just fine, and just showing up should guarantee them a raise every so often, regardless of performance. That's how union jobs work. They should call union work what it truly is: corporate welfare. It's what keeps the losers, alcoholics, drug addicts and the just plain lazy employed. I know a bunch of you loser libs are going to pounce all over this saying, "HEY MAN, HEY MAN, at least let the evil corporations are paying for it, not your tax dollars...... he he he he." But once again, like always, you would be wrong. It gets passed along to the consumer in the form of higher prices of goods and services. Something that should cost an American $20.00, costs him $40.00 to support Joe 12 pack and a blunt, along with the losers that keep him employed. America is left with an inferior product for an inflated cost. That's why American cars aren't even relevant anymore. Honda, Toyota, and now Kia, Hyundai, Mazda and Nissan have been out producing any American car for almost 20 years. A person would be a fool to buy a domestic car these days. They're junk compared to the imports. Hopefully Trump gets that mess fixed and makes American cars great again, because they aren't even competitive. And who is to blame for that? Yep, unions. The US has to mass produce junk to pay union wages to dead beats and still compete pricewise with the foreign cars. They have lost and lost big time. Sales statistics back that up. People aren't stupid. Nobody wants to pay extra so some loser can have a job he isn't at half the time and pays a union to keep for him.
For myself personally, I don't "need" someone to do my bidding...I have plenty of experience in my current field and in others such as welding and shipfitting...I have been in several unions through the years and more non union jobs...I'm not a person who only believes in Unions, actually I dont care if my job is union or non union...If I change jobs before I retire, I will take a non union job or a union job, whichever appeals to me most at that time...Location would probably be the biggest factor but union or non union makes no difference to me
Quote:For myself personally, I don't "need" someone to do my bidding...I have plenty of experience in my current field and in others such as welding and shipfitting...I have been in several unions through the years and more non union jobs...I'm not a person who only believes in Unions, actually I dont care if my job is union or non union...If I change jobs before I retire, I will take a non union job or a union job, whichever appeals to me most at that time...Location would probably be the biggest factor but union or non union makes no difference to me
That's fine. I guess you have no regard to the cost of the goods and services you pay for. For me, that kind of thing matters, and here's why.
Back around the turn of the century, I worked at O'hare for United Airlines. One particular day, I was working, and saw a bumper fall off a luggage tug cart. Being an operations manager and working in the tower, I was responsible for basically everything on the ramp. I contacted the driver of the tug, and advised him what happened and told him to go back and get the bumper off of the ramp/ taxi area. His response was that it wasn't his job and wasn't his problem. After some back and forth, his ultimatum was for me to contact his union steward if I didn't like it. My next call was to ATC to stop all aircraft traffic through that area. Before my word could be relayed, a 767 taxied through, and the #2 engine ingested the bumper. It ruined the engine. The flight was canceled, and the ultimate cost to the airline ended up in the tens of millions.
All of that could have been avoided if some loser would have taken 2 minutes to go back and clear a hazard from the area. It wasn't his job though. He was never disciplined, but it cost a lot of people a lot of time and money and hassle.
Perfect example of how unions protect and encourage non-action to the detriment of the greater good.
Quote:Gosh only government can build roads, run education and maintain airports. Lucky for us we have one that does all that an more, cause you know private enterprise could never build a road and maintane it, private enterprise could never build and run an airport.....
You not learn anything from that drug where the company decided to price gouge 1000s of a percent?
You can't have multiple roads doing the same route. Therefore it's best off in the public sector.
The bottom line is that it's discrimination.
One of the simplest to understand examples of it.
If you won't sign a card, we don't want you here.
"Legal" discrimination.
Quote:I'll answer this tomorrow because you are so wrong and misguided on so many things. I would do so now, but I need to decompress and get some sleep so that I can get to my NON-UNION job in just a few hours.
I'll leave you with this though... my NON-UNION job pays better in the same industry than ANY union job. I'll even go so far as to tell you that I pretty much "name my price" to prospective employers. I don't need a corrupt group of democrat money launderers "negotiating" for me.
Get some sleep, man. Nothing worse than going to work dead tired.
Also, I'm glad you enjoy your non-union job. I have respect for anyone who has a (legal) job, union or non-union, and provides for their families. That's really the only thing that matters. It sounds like your situation, if not unique, is rare. Being able to name your own rate is a luxury, that's for sure.
We're both "winning" and not just in the Charlie Sheen sense. You don't like unions and don't want to be in one, and I'm glad to be part of my union. We're both successful in our own opinion. Let's just be happy for each other and get back to those areas where we share a common viewpoint, which is probably on 80% of the rest of the stuff.
Quote:Gosh only government can build roads, run education and maintain airports. Lucky for us we have one that does all that an more, cause you know private enterprise could never build a road and maintane it, private enterprise could never build and run an airport.....
Private airports could charge what they want for usage, the airlines would pass the fee onto the fliers, and suddenly it's $2000 to fly round trip in coach from JAX to LAX. No thanks.
Private roads mean more toll booths...like everywhere. Again, no thanks.