Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote:gdp per capita: US 59k /UK 39k. 
 
Have a nice night player

What is the debt per capita tho. Can't ignore that (I don't know off of top my head for australia).

Quote:Good post.

I'm highly trained and good at my job. I show up to work on time and almost never call in sick. My satisfaction scores for work performance and customer satisfaction are near-perfect. Of course, this wouldn't matter much to management when they decide it's time to increase their own bonuses and cut positions and/or lower wages. That's something that keeps being overlooked. Union detrators focus their critiques on unions and give management a free pass.

I've been a union member now for almost 12 years. Dues are reasonable (roughly $80/month). With wages and T-COLA I'm bringing in around $34/hr. Grievance payments from management violations gets me about $300/yr on average. I figure that without union representation, my job would pay about $18/hr tops. That is, if I had a job, because there wouldn't be much to stop management from laying me off or firing me so they can hire a relative of theirs. Or maybe they'd just lay off everyone making $20/hr or more and replace them with cheap, inexperienced alternatives hires.

After having worked in non-union environments up until I was 36 years old, I can say that I wouldn't go back to a non-union job for anything.

The only Union job I ever had was definitely better as far as pay and benefits go. But the culture was sucky. That may have had more to do with the field tho. All the real problems were gone, and they just started snipping each other.

Quote:They have no place and should be immediately disbanded. Public works can't unionize against tax payers. You want a cushy penchant and retirement go get a job in the private sector but instead getting a government job is like winning the lottery.

Except you have to work with other government employees. Trust me the 'lottery' isn't as good as you think it is. You stand out for doing your job sometimes.

Quote:Or you accept the job and refuse to join the union.  Employment is between an employer and the employee.  A union contract is an agreement between an employer and the union.  Union membership is not part of the job description and should not be a condition of employment.  That's what right to work is all about.

Even in closed shop states you can pay a 'fair share' fee and not join the union. Its sucky and is pretty much 95% of the union fee, but you aren't bound to their contract. Or you can be a conscientious objector if your certain religious groups. But you still have to give the same amount of money towards charity, but at least you don't support the unions.


The problem with Unions IMO, is that they all have connections to AFL-CIO (or ones of any size) and that organized crime is involved at that level. Take the CNA in California. A good union on their own, but then they 'pay' for a seat on the AFL-CIO? Why, that is a waste of dues, AFL-CIO does nothing for Nurses in California and has connections to organized crime. Those kind of things I can't get behind.

Quote:That's fine. I guess you have no regard to the cost of the goods and services you  pay for.  For me, that kind of thing matters, and here's why.

 

Back around the turn of the century, I worked at O'hare for United Airlines. One particular day, I was working, and saw a bumper fall off a luggage tug cart. Being an operations manager and working in the tower, I was responsible for basically everything on the ramp. I contacted the driver of the tug, and advised him what happened and told him to go back and get the bumper off of the ramp/ taxi area. His response was that it wasn't his job and wasn't his problem. After some back and forth, his ultimatum was for me to contact his union steward if I didn't like it. My next call was to ATC to stop all aircraft traffic through that area. Before my word could be relayed, a  767 taxied through, and the #2 engine ingested the bumper. It ruined the engine. The flight was canceled, and the ultimate cost to the airline ended up in the tens of millions. 

 

All of that could have been avoided if some loser would have taken 2 minutes to go back and clear a hazard from the area. It wasn't his job though. He was never disciplined, but it cost a lot of people a lot of time and money and hassle.

 

Perfect example of how unions protect and encourage non-action to the detriment of the greater good.

and you don't like having protection on the job? I can see your point but there again, why should he do someone elses job? someone else is paid to do that...I don't mind helping out, but I'm not going to do someone else's job

 

as far as the goods and services that I pay for, it's pretty much a decent trade...I pay very little Union Dues weekly as compared to what I would have to pay for the insurances (Life, long and short term disability, and $5 weekly payments for vision and dental) through the company 

Quote:neither do corporations, they arent any better, at least with a union we get higher wages that companies don't want to pay..no company cares about their employees...they all say they do, but their only concern is the profit which is why Unions were created..If the corporations were not so greedy there


would be no use for a Union

This is the other side of the coin that legislation doesn't/cannot address. As an employee you are dependent on the company for your livelihood, yet there is an overwhelming tendency of most modern companies to shaft their workers. Which opens up the avenue for a middle man (the union) to exist. It shouldn't be there, but its a product of the system. Especially in our current state were 'good jobs' are very hard to come by, especially with 'good' employers who aren't about shafting you to save pennies constantly. I know why unions exist, I still don't like them.

 

I have come to the conclusion that the only way out for me is to find a career that does not involve being an employee, but rather having my own business etc or at least being an independent contractor (in reality, not just a shafted employee with no benefits). The prospects aren't great right now, but we just have to suck it up and make our way with what we have.

Quote:That's fine. I guess you have no regard to the cost of the goods and services you  pay for.  For me, that kind of thing matters, and here's why.

 

Back around the turn of the century, I worked at O'hare for United Airlines. One particular day, I was working, and saw a bumper fall off a luggage tug cart. Being an operations manager and working in the tower, I was responsible for basically everything on the ramp. I contacted the driver of the tug, and advised him what happened and told him to go back and get the bumper off of the ramp/ taxi area. His response was that it wasn't his job and wasn't his problem. After some back and forth, his ultimatum was for me to contact his union steward if I didn't like it. My next call was to ATC to stop all aircraft traffic through that area. Before my word could be relayed, a  767 taxied through, and the #2 engine ingested the bumper. It ruined the engine. The flight was canceled, and the ultimate cost to the airline ended up in the tens of millions. 

 

All of that could have been avoided if some loser would have taken 2 minutes to go back and clear a hazard from the area. It wasn't his job though. He was never disciplined, but it cost a lot of people a lot of time and money and hassle.

 

Perfect example of how unions protect and encourage non-action to the detriment of the greater good.

And thats the union culture that I hate. Theres always that person in them, and they run off other people too.

Quote:And thats the union culture that I hate. Theres always that person in them, and they run off other people too.

yes the unions stress "don't do that! It's not your job! Someone else gets paid to do that!"

Quote:Private airports could charge what they want for usage, the airlines would pass the fee onto the fliers, and suddenly it's $2000 to fly round trip in coach from JAX to LAX. No thanks.


Private roads mean more toll booths...like everywhere. Again, no thanks.

Nah airports would be restricted to supply and demand like the rest of the free market. With private roads perhaps you'd have some toll booths but their primary income would be in selling advertising on their roads.

Quote:and you don't like having protection on the job? I can see your point but there again, why should he do someone elses job? someone else is paid to do that...I don't mind helping out, but I'm not going to do someone else's job

 

as far as the goods and services that I pay for, it's pretty much a decent trade...I pay very little Union Dues weekly as compared to what I would have to pay for the insurances (Life, long and short term disability, and $5 weekly payments for vision and dental) through the company 

2 minutes of one's time to clear a safety hazard should be EVERYONE'S job at the airlines. Your response is the perfect example of how unions cost everyone. They hurt the companies they represent. They hurt the public in terms of higher costs.

 

That 2 minutes that that guy could have spent would have saved a lot of people a lot of money. The airline didn't pay for that. The public did in terms of higher fares to recoup the loss.

Quote:That's fine. I guess you have no regard to the cost of the goods and services you pay for. For me, that kind of thing matters, and here's why.


Back around the turn of the century, I worked at O'hare for United Airlines. One particular day, I was working, and saw a bumper fall off a luggage tug cart. Being an operations manager and working in the tower, I was responsible for basically everything on the ramp. I contacted the driver of the tug, and advised him what happened and told him to go back and get the bumper off of the ramp/ taxi area. His response was that it wasn't his job and wasn't his problem. After some back and forth, his ultimatum was for me to contact his union steward if I didn't like it. My next call was to ATC to stop all aircraft traffic through that area. Before my word could be relayed, a 767 taxied through, and the #2 engine ingested the bumper. It ruined the engine. The flight was canceled, and the ultimate cost to the airline ended up in the tens of millions.


All of that could have been avoided if some loser would have taken 2 minutes to go back and clear a hazard from the area. It wasn't his job though. He was never disciplined, but it cost a lot of people a lot of time and money and hassle.


Perfect example of how unions protect and encourage non-action to the detriment of the greater good.

Curious to know. How exactly did you ask him to grab the bumper?


Also, why didn't you pick up the bumper?

Quote:Nah airports would be restricted to supply and demand like the rest of the free market. With private roads perhaps you'd have some toll booths but their primary income would be in selling advertising on their roads.

 

Or you know... Wal-Mart buys all roads on the route to a local Target, and puts up ridiculous tolls to drive traffic to Wal-Mart instead.

Quote:Curious to know. How exactly did you ask him to grab the bumper?


Also, why didn't you pick up the bumper?

 

"Being an operations manager and working in the tower, I was responsible for basically everything on the ramp. I contacted the driver of the tug, and advised him what happened and told him to go back and get the bumper off of the ramp/ taxi area"

 

Seems like the answers are pretty obvious.

Quote:That's fine. I guess you have no regard to the cost of the goods and services you  pay for.  For me, that kind of thing matters, and here's why.

 

Back around the turn of the century, I worked at O'hare for United Airlines. One particular day, I was working, and saw a bumper fall off a luggage tug cart. Being an operations manager and working in the tower, I was responsible for basically everything on the ramp. I contacted the driver of the tug, and advised him what happened and told him to go back and get the bumper off of the ramp/ taxi area. His response was that it wasn't his job and wasn't his problem. After some back and forth, his ultimatum was for me to contact his union steward if I didn't like it. My next call was to ATC to stop all aircraft traffic through that area. Before my word could be relayed, a  767 taxied through, and the #2 engine ingested the bumper. It ruined the engine. The flight was canceled, and the ultimate cost to the airline ended up in the tens of millions. 

 

All of that could have been avoided if some loser would have taken 2 minutes to go back and clear a hazard from the area. It wasn't his job though. He was never disciplined, but it cost a lot of people a lot of time and money and hassle.

 

Perfect example of how unions protect and encourage non-action to the detriment of the greater good.

 

That happens far too often in union shops.  Here's another example that happened to my son.

 

He was only on the job for a short period of time.  He's a smoker, and the smoking area at that job site happened to be near the dumpsters.  He noticed that a trash can near his work station  was full, so he pulled the full trash bag out and replaced it with a new one.  While he was doing so, one of his co-workers asked him what he was doing.  He replied that he was going to take a smoke break and empty the full trashcan at the same time since the dumpsters were near the smoking area.  The worker replied that they "had people for that" and that it "wasn't his job".  My son shrugged it off and took the trash out anyway.  He got reprimanded for it.  When he told me about it I explained to him that that's the way union shops work.

Quote:Get some sleep, man.  Nothing worse than going to work dead tired.

 

Also, I'm glad you enjoy your non-union job.  I have respect for anyone who has a (legal) job, union or non-union, and provides for their families.  That's really the only thing that matters.  It sounds like your situation, if not unique, is rare.  Being able to name your own rate is a luxury, that's for sure.

 

We're both "winning" and not just in the Charlie Sheen sense.  You don't like unions and don't want to be in one, and I'm glad to be part of my union.  We're both successful in our own opinion.  Let's just be happy for each other and get back to those areas where we share a common viewpoint, which is probably on 80% of the rest of the stuff.

 

I did get some well needed rest, thanks.

 

I should clarify something though.  I have a "day job" that is pretty standard as far as salary that I've done for several years.  I also "freelance" on occasion if the job interests me enough.  The freelance work is where I can pretty much name my price and I must admit, that particular skill set is kind of rare and unique.  What I was pointing out though is that my experience with employers has always been positive.  I have never been fired from a job or left on bad terms.  As I said before I've even had employers that I was leaving try to match or exceed the offer that I got from my next employer.  Companies/corporations aren't out to "screw their employees" as some have tried to imply.

 

Contrary to your earlier post, every job has a certain value/dollar figure associated with it.  I forget what the exact term for it is, but it's basically the cost that a company considers your job is worth.  Let's say that a person earns an hourly wage of $20 per hour.  That's actually not the value of that job.  Employers also figure in the cost of benefits such as time off, health insurance, workman's compensation insurance, etc.  The cost of taxes is also figured in.  They also figure in a certain amount of profit that they make from that job.  So in all reality, to the company that pays a wage of $20 per hour, the job actually has a value to the company more along the lines of say $60 per hour or more.  How that $60 per hour is paid out makes no difference, so if they negotiate a contract with a union and the union says that the salary should be $25 per hour, the company will agree, but that extra $5 per hour comes from somewhere else in the form of a lesser benefit or a lower tax rate.

Quote:Nah airports would be restricted to supply and demand like the rest of the free market. With private roads perhaps you'd have some toll booths but their primary income would be in selling advertising on their roads.

The first private road for public use is opening in Tallahassee. Its a toll road. Sorry, but you wrong on this one, if roads were private they would all have tolls, AND advertising.

Quote:I did get some well needed rest, thanks.

 

I should clarify something though.  I have a "day job" that is pretty standard as far as salary that I've done for several years.  I also "freelance" on occasion if the job interests me enough.  The freelance work is where I can pretty much name my price and I must admit, that particular skill set is kind of rare and unique.  What I was pointing out though is that my experience with employers has always been positive.  I have never been fired from a job or left on bad terms.  As I said before I've even had employers that I was leaving try to match or exceed the offer that I got from my next employer.  Companies/corporations aren't out to "screw their employees" as
some have tried to imply.

 

Contrary to your earlier post, every job has a certain value/dollar figure associated with it.  I forget what the exact term for it is, but it's basically the cost that a company considers your job is worth.  Let's say that a person earns an hourly wage of $20 per hour.  That's actually not the value of that job.  Employers also figure in the cost of benefits such as time off, health insurance, workman's compensation insurance, etc.  The cost of taxes is also figured in.  They also figure in a certain amount of profit that they make from that job.  So in all reality, to the company that pays a wage of $20 per hour, the job actually has a value to the company more along the lines of say $60 per hour or more.  How that $60 per hour is paid out makes no difference, so if they negotiate a contract with a union and the union says that the salary should be $25 per hour, the company will agree, but that extra $5 per hour comes from somewhere else in the form of a lesser benefit or a lower tax rate.

That's your experience with having a very unique and rare skill, which is certainly not the norm. Not trying to downplay your accomplishments (cause I don't know them), but anyone who was working in 80's and 90's has a huge advantage over people who started in the last 8-10 years especially. They came up in a more prosperous generation which had easier access to the tools and opportunities to develop more unique skills and ability. Sure we have some of those opportunities now, but they aren't nearly as good as they were. The internet isn't new anymore, Unemployment is nowhere near 3% on the E6 like it used to be. Schooling costs 4 to 8x as much as it used to 25 to 35 years ago. Wages have been stagnant for most of the decade. It is what it is.

 

Even in fields with specialization there is always a push to replace with cheaper options as soon as possible. In most fields the company is always trying to replace you with a cheaper option or outsource, or move. Engineering, manufacturing, even healthcare 'the recession proof' profession. They import Doctors and nurses for cheaper and give them substandard wages for 3 years using H1B program to drive down wages. And then they introduce newer less skilled, but 'close enough' providers to fill the gap (see midlevels replacing primary care Doctors). Globalization has killed opportunity the last 25 years.

Quote:2 minutes of one's time to clear a safety hazard should be EVERYONE'S job at the airlines. Your response is the perfect example of how unions cost everyone. They hurt the companies they represent. They hurt the public in terms of higher costs.

 

That 2 minutes that that guy could have spent would have saved a lot of people a lot of money. The airline didn't pay for that. The public did in terms of higher fares to recoup the loss.

then why didn't YOU send the proper person get it? If there is a person who's job it is to do that, then that person should do it...I'm a project manager, I can do every job any of the sub contractors do, so should I install receptacles for the electrician? It only takes a couple minutes per receptacle...Should I braze copper lines sets for the A/c guys since it only takes a couple minutes? Maybe I should frame a wall or two or hang some drywall...Its not my job but it only takes a couple minutes 

Quote:That happens far too often in union shops.  Here's another example that happened to my son.

 

He was only on the job for a short period of time.  He's a smoker, and the smoking area at that job site happened to be near the dumpsters.  He noticed that a trash can near his work station  was full, so he pulled the full trash bag out and replaced it with a new one.  While he was doing so, one of his co-workers asked him what he was doing.  He replied that he was going to take a smoke break and empty the full trashcan at the same time since the dumpsters were near the smoking area.  The worker replied that they "had people for that" and that it "wasn't his job".  My son shrugged it off and took the trash out anyway.  He got reprimanded for it.  When he told me about it I explained to him that that's the way union shops work.

That happens often in Unions,,,Union employees have a certain job they are paid to do and anything outside the parameters of the job description is another different job that someone else does...You do your job not someone else's job...You are not getting paid to do someone else's job so don't do it

Quote:then why didn't YOU get it? If there is a person who's job it is to do that, then that person should do it...I'm a project manager, I can do every job any of the sub contractors do, so should I install receptacles for the electrician? It only takes a couple minutes per receptacle...Should I braze copper lines sets for the A/c guys since it only takes a couple minutes? Maybe I should frame a wall or two or hang some drywall...Its not my job but it only takes a couple minutes

A bumper would be FOD.


Everyone has a responsibility to eliminate FOD around aircraft. Airports, or maintenance facilities.


It's not likely a procedure that only allowed specific people to remove it would ever get approved by a regulatory agency.