Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

i have been trying to keep quiet for fear of being banned, but the op is right... blake has a lower qbr than freakin geno smith... i dont even know how thats possible

Quote:Do you honestly think the play design was for two guys to run into eachother?

 

We bunch up receivers and have them running such that one defender can cover them with some regularity. 

 

No, I naturally don't think they drew it up for them to run into each other, but putting receivers in position where both of them think the throw might be to them is something that certainly can be caused by a bad play design.

Good article from ESPN today.  I'm not sure if the last paragraph makes me optimistic or totally confused as to what the hell goes on during the week?

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/jacksonville-jag...fense-wont

Quote:Really? You're familiar with the play, the routes, and where both players were supposed to be?

 

And you are to put blame on the receivers (or the OC) just so you can say "well it's not Blake's fault"?

 

Off the top of my head, it looked like Cecil was running some kind of hitch or curl. Then Blake scrambles. At that point, its playground football. Cecil was blanketed, saw Blake scramble and runs the opposite direction (probably even got away with a push as he tried to get open back towards the inside). Then the ball gets there and then boom, collision.

 

If you think ALL of this happened as a play design, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

Again, had Blake stayed in the pocket and those two receivers ran into each other...THEN I'd say bad route or design (likely someone ran a wrong route). But once Blake bailed...then the design argument goes out the window.

Quote:We bunch up receivers and have them running such that one defender can cover them with some regularity. 

 

No, I naturally don't think they drew it up for them to run into each other, but putting receivers in position where both of them think the throw might be to them is something that certainly can be caused by a bad play design.

 

That's the thing...bunching up wide receivers is supposed to make it difficult for corners to defend their man. This is why even though these receivers are all bunched up, they are running routes of different depths at the very least.

 

It's not a concept that is exclusive only to Jacksonville. Other teams use it just as often as us...they just do it more effectively.

Quote:That's the thing...bunching up wide receivers is supposed to make it difficult for corners to defend their man. This is why even though these receivers are all bunched up, they are running routes of different depths at the very least.

 

It's not a concept that is exclusive only to Jacksonville. Other teams use it just as often as us...they just do it more effectively.

 

If they were at different depths, they wouldn't be running into each other.

 

For the second part, yes, other teams do it much more effectively.  Our guys are seldom open, and often multiple receivers appear well covered by fewer defenders, given they're typically stacking the box or bringing the house to rush.

Quote:i have been trying to keep quiet for fear of being banned, but the op is right... blake has a lower qbr than freakin geno smith... i dont even know how thats possible

Wow. That's,, Not,, Good

Quote:No one knows if his game will translate, but he certainly projects as a franchise QB. We already know Bortles is a bust. Well to the unbiased eye anyway
, but its pretty obvious he has been one of the worst QBs all season. Carr, Mettenberger, and Bridgewater have all looked far superior. 

I disagree. He is clearly better than Blaine was. I don't know if a Tannelhill like leap is gonna happen or not, but Blake will not be a complete bust IMO. I don't know that he will make it to franchise QB, but I am willing to give him another year at least. Now if you know, for certain, that Mariota or Winston will be better, I think you still take them. But only if your certain, otherwise you role with Blake. Its really hard to judge Blake cause this O-line overall has been the worst in Jaguars history IMO, and we have no rushing game to take the pressure off Blake at all. I am willing to place most of the blame with the O-line. I even think Fisch might be better than advertised. We also need a dominant wideout like no ones business. Or at least a dominant TE. We have a bunch of okay guys right now, but no one is really sure handed. 

 

Anyway, we have a long way to go, and I am not sure what else to do other then just ride for one more year, unless a obvious coaching upgrade is available. Otherwise I think you stand pat on both QB and OC. It stinks, but I think it is the right move, right now. ST coach, rb, TE, and O-line are no brainer areas that need upgrading IMO. Denard is a change of pace back, we need the bruiser that Gerhart isn't. 

The difference between Gabbert and Bortles is that Gabbert went to an elite passing academy and went to a big school at Missouri with all the resources a pretty boy from a wealthy family can afford. Bortles is Garbage, but he is so much further behind Gabbert. Gabbert worked extremely hard and unfortunately for him, it's not enough.


Help is not coming, the Jags aren't takinq a Qb in the early rounds. So now you have to deal with it and I do believe there is a chance he could be successful based on the abilities he has. Gabbert was in the same situation but his biggest problem is that he doesn't have the decision making ability or confidence a pro needs. I think Bortles has a better chance to succeed and I'm one of the few who didn't like care for him.


Bortles needs fundemental skills training first and foremost, as a coach you can see the difference in the kids that go to all the skills camps and private lessons. Bortles has never had that until now. It typically takes two to three years to learn the skills that Bortles needs. Basic muscle memory stuff. The other stuff will come with in game experience, decision making, not staring down your first option before the ball is snapped. I don't think it's hopeless. I think some of you need to be more positive and I think the frustration of a decade of losing and draft busts causes impatience for any development .. You can't stick him in a microwave and pop out Aaron Rodgers. Rodgers also had awful mechanics coming in, he looked robotic and uncomfortable. I wonder how things would have gone if he started right away.

You don't draft another QB this year unless it's in the later rounds which means you are drafting someone you don't think is going to make it otherwise he'd be drafted earlier. If that's the case, then you're wasting a draft pick.

 

If you draft another QB high in the draft then you will have roughly $26 million tied up in the QB position with 1/2 of that sitting on the bench. That's not financially prudent.

 

Regards.............................the Chiefjag

Quote:You don't draft another QB this year unless it's in the later rounds which means you are drafting someone you don't think is going to make it otherwise he'd be drafted earlier. If that's the case, then you're wasting a draft pick.

 

If you draft another QB high in the draft then you will have roughly $26 million tied up in the QB position with 1/2 of that sitting on the bench. That's not financially prudent.

 

Regards.............................the Chiefjag

Whenever I think of this, I think of Carolina with Jimmy Clausen and Cam Newton. What a mistake it would have been if Carolina didn't draft Cam. Its much much worse to pass on the guy than to have a guy sitting on the bench for a few million a year. If you know someone will be the franchise QB, and your not sure if you have, than I think you take that QB. That's all there is too that. I am not sure there is a guy like that in this years draft tho. So I think you stand pat.

Quote:If they were at different depths, they wouldn't be running into each other.

 

For the second part, yes, other teams do it much more effectively.  Our guys are seldom open, and often multiple receivers appear well covered by fewer defenders, given they're typically stacking the box or bringing the house to rush.

 

They ran into each other because at that point they were no longer running their designated routes. It was scramble mode.

 

That, and If it happened at the 50 yard line, they would have all the green in front of them and they wouldn't run into each other. The field basically got cut into a small area: Cecil couldn't run further back because of the endzone and he couldn't run further out because of the sideline, so he went back in (not sure what was in front of him if he could have come towards Blake or not). As for Lee, pretty much the same thing (except from the other direction). Given how small that space was, its just how the play unfolded. Keep in mind that Blake couldn't throw TO Cecil (he had a guy draped over him), so he throw it to a spot where he felt Cecil can get it. 

 

Unfortunately, it was a spot between him and Lee.

Quote:Whenever I think of this, I think of Carolina with Jimmy Clausen and Cam Newton. What a mistake it would have been if Carolina didn't draft Cam. Its much much worse to pass on the guy than to have a guy sitting on the bench for a few million a year. If you know someone will be the franchise QB, and your not sure if you have, than I think you take that QB. That's all there is too that. I am not sure there is a guy like that in this years draft tho. So I think you stand pat.

I think in the Jaguars case, they do know though. We caught a glimpse of what Blake can be when his "game" is on...and that guy was definitely franchise QB material. He has the work ethic, the confidence, and the ability to put it all together. It would be one thing if Luck was in this draft and we had the #1 pick...THEN we'd be making a difficult decision.

 

At this point, while both JW and MM show great potential, each have their own question marks that as prospects, IMO, don't put them in the same level as the Blake we saw earlier in the season. Mariotta plays in a spread offense and there are questions of how he'll translate into a pro-style offense and having to read complex defensive coverages and blitz. Winston has experience in a pro style offense, but his off the field stuff is something to consider. Not to mention, he had some pretty bad mistakes early in the season when FSU's OL wasn't performing well. Some attribute those bad on-field decisions to off-field distractions, but still...that's a question. And behind the offensive line that Bortles played in? This is worse than anything that Marcus and Winston have seen...ever.

Fisch sucks and so does this terrible line. How many free rushers do we allow per game? Not to mention we try to block JJ Watt one on one all game and don't adjust. Blake made plays with his legs and has stood in all season taking a lot of hits and criticism. Give him an offseason and bring in some better talent and leadership on the O-line. Typical average casual fan blaming the QB and nothing else. I'm not excusing his poor play but he's also a rookie with a young team void of crucial talent. Don't forget the guy was supposed to sit all year and gave us something to watch since his first start against the Chargers. Like the Gabbert/Henne games were entertaining or something?

Quote:Whenever I think of this, I think of Carolina with Jimmy Clausen and Cam Newton. What a mistake it would have been if Carolina didn't draft Cam. Its much much worse to pass on the guy than to have a guy sitting on the bench for a few million a year. If you know someone will be the franchise QB, and your not sure if you have, than I think you take that QB. That's all there is too that. I am not sure there is a guy like that in this years draft tho. So I think you stand pat.

Very different situations, however I see your point in there.


Clauses didn't have the arm that Bortles has. Guys like Claussen are completed projects. They never get better. Bortles has a chance to improve.

I want the preseason Bortles back and I want him back yesterday.

Of course, he's a rookie, but he finished with a rating of 69.5, last in the NFL.  He had only 11 TDs against 17 INTs, worst ratio in the NFL.  He took 55 sacks, most in the NFL.  Only Derek Carr's yards per attempt was worse. 

 

In Byron Leftwich's rookie year, he finished with rating of 73.0, good for 21st out of 32 qualifiers in the NFL.  He had 14 TDs against 16 INTs.  He took only 19 sacks, one of the fewest in the NFL.  His yards per attempt was18th in the NFL.

 

By nearly every comparative measure, Byron Leftwich's rookie season was far better than Blake Bortles'.

 

In Blaine Gabbert's rookie year, he finished with a rating of 77.4, 25th out of 32 qualifiers.  He had 9 TDs against 6 INTs,  He did take 22 sacks in limited snaps, one of the worst percentages in the NFL.  His yards per attempt were worst in the NFL.  Of course, the last two statistics were the best measure of his deficiencies.

 

But ask yourself, look at their stats, and is Bortles more like Gabbert or Leftwich, and how did Leftwich turn out for you?

 DRAFTING QB'S FROM GARBAGE CONFERENCES

Quote:I hope they can teach accuracy, I just kind of think you have it or you don't, I can't recall an elite QB who didn't have it and then learned it.

 

His problem is when he's forced to do everything on his own. When defenders have an uninterrupted shot at him nearly every possession, then it will inevitably take a toll on any QB... much less a rookie QB. Manning, Brees, and Brady all turn in scrubs when their OLs have performances like our AVERAGE OL performance.

 

Besides, he threw up 78% and 250 yards against the 4th ranked pass defense. He can make all of the throws, and he was doing that before this OL forced him to be a different QB.

Bortles was surrounded by rookies and mediocre veterans. I don't know why anybody would be surprised by how terrible the offense was this year. And unless the team actually goes out in free agency and adds some competent veteran talent, next year won't be much better.