01-21-2017, 10:10 AM
Quote:Kotite posted it, so proceed with caution.
You can watch the video of DeVos squirming to respond to this from a Senator with a special needs child.
Quote:Kotite posted it, so proceed with caution.
Quote:30,000 kids with vouchers want into Stanton. No one wants to go to Ribault. Who makes the cut for the one and gets banished to the other?
Quote:That's why vouchers are the simple solution. I pay taxes let me select the education I want my kids to recieve in the form of a voucher. If I pick some fancy school that's more than the voucher I'll pay the difference.
Quote:Creationism isn't a science, so it doesn't belong in a science classroom. There is no scientific aspect to it. Otherwise you might as well teach Ancient Astronaut theory as well.
Quote:That's why vouchers are the simple solution. I pay taxes let me select the education I want my kids to recieve in the form of a voucher. If I pick some fancy school that's more than the voucher I'll pay the difference.
Quote:Law of biogenisis....
Quote:Vouchers are a terrible idea. Money shouldn't be attached to individual students. You open the way to vouchers, and you're going to open your way to fraudulent schools that take advantage of parents. Because if the government can't hold them accountable, then there's nothing stopping them. All you have to do is look at for-profit colleges. Most people won't put University of Phoenix on their resumes for a very good reason--it looks terrible to employers. All that will matter to those schools is marketing, and in the end my kids suffer because some dumb parents decide to send their kids to a crappy private school over public school. Because I'm not going to send my kids to a private school.
I'm sure you don't care too much about the fraudulent schools that'll cheat people out of an education--at least not until those kids are all on welfare.
Private Schools should get private funding. Public schools should get public funding. I don't think we should subsidize private schools anymore than I think we should subsidize private insurance.
Quote:..has absolutely nothing to do with creationism, scripture or doctrine.
Quote:..has absolutely nothing to do with creationism, scripture or doctrine.
Quote:What's all this talk about vouchers?
Here every public school is free to go to, although they ask you to pay a "voluntary" donation of around 50 euro if you can. Then they will help pay for books and uniform if you are stuck.
Then the private schools are anywhere from 5'000 per year up to 35,000 or so depending on how exclusive they are.
Quote:The idea of vouchers is that the money goes to the parents of each student, who can then choose any school. This puts pressure on the schools to perform. Competition breeds improvement.How can you monitor if the poor performance is because of the teacher or because of the students?
In your case (and in the usual case in the US) the money goes to a school board or other elite bureaucracy, who then decides the education of each student. Each student is then stuck with what they are assigned, no matter how bad.
TED is concerned that parents will be taken advantage of by scam artists. This is certainly a concern. What he misses is that government doesn't hold public schools accountable either. Try to fire a bad teacher. You can fire a young teacher, or one who commits a crime or breaks a rule. But you can't fire a tenured teacher for poor performance.
Quote:Vouchers are a terrible idea. Money shouldn't be attached to individual students. You open the way to vouchers, and you're going to open your way to fraudulent schools that take advantage of parents. Because if the government can't hold them accountable, then there's nothing stopping them. All you have to do is look at for-profit colleges. Most people won't put University of Phoenix on their resumes for a very good reason--it looks terrible to employers. All that will matter to those schools is marketing, and in the end my kids suffer because some dumb parents decide to send their kids to a crappy private school over public school. Because I'm not going to send my kids to a private school.
I'm sure you don't care too much about the fraudulent schools that'll cheat people out of an education--at least not until those kids are all on welfare.
Private Schools should get private funding. Public schools should get public funding. I don't think we should subsidize private schools anymore than I think we should subsidize private insurance.
Quote:How can you monitor if the poor performance is because of the teacher or because of the students?
Just curious how you would find that out.
Quote:It's not that difficult really. Consider this simple example. Let's say a math teacher has 20 students and their only goal is to teach multiplication. Let's say after a couple of months half of the students can't tell you what 5 x 5 is or 12 x 3. That would possibly indicate a bad teacher.So it's actually not really easy? Because the example you gave is extremely basic, it's a very hard thing to get right.
Of course, this is a very simple example that would have other factors involved. For example, what if half of the 10 students that are failing failed to complete homework assignments? That would be an indicator that the students and/or parents might be a problem.
Quote:So it's actually not really easy? Because the example you gave is extremely basic, it's a very hard thing to get right.
It's not as easy as "oh you failed this test, that's the teachers fault." And "you didn't do homework, that's the students fault."
It's an extremely complex situation and is a reason why no one is doing it right now.
Quote:It's not that difficult really. Consider this simple example. Let's say a math teacher has 20 students and their only goal is to teach multiplication. Let's say after a couple of months half of the students can't tell you what 5 x 5 is or 12 x 3. That would possibly indicate a bad teacher.
Of course, this is a very simple example that would have other factors involved. For example, what if half of the 10 students that are failing failed to complete homework assignments? That would be an indicator that the students and/or parents might be a problem.
Quote:The fact that all life ever observed in the history of the planet has all come from pre-existing living systems? Lol. U must REALLY BE MAD!
Quote:Let me give you an actual example. I am a teacher. I assign 3 homework assignments per week to my 8th graders because our short classes do not allow the time necessary for students to read as much as they need to in order to keep their skills sharp. They are expected to read 2.5 hours each week outside of class, find and define 2 vocabulary words they didn't know previously, and write 2-4 pages of responses to their reading.
These assignments are designed to make sure they are reading (they are held accountable by their parents signing off on a log, and the only way to improve at reading is to, you know, read), thinking about their reading rather than just checking out and word calling for a while, and developing their vocabulary and their use of dictionary skills.
Probably 1/3 of my students consistently do not turn in homework. I call parents, send home grade sheets, and stay up to 2 hours after the school day for tutorials and make up sessions, which probably 1/3 of the 1/3 take advantage of. I still have tons of failing grades due to the fact that a great many of students just do not try.
As a result, most of these students will likely fail their state assessments in 8 weeks. They will have shown no progress because they refuse to work and do what I ask. At the end of the year, my school with be graded down because these students and parents did not take care of their end of things.
But that doesn't show up in public accountability. It'll just have a C or lower as a letter grade for performance. Once vouchers are initiated, those SAME PARENTS will looks at our accountability ratings and say, "Oh, little Johnny has been attending an awful school! I'll send him across town!" And so eventually, schools are left with the children and parents who are checked out, performance across the board decreases as "good" (i.e., wealthy) schools become overcrowded and "bad" (i.e., impoverished) schools report only data from students whose parents don't even care enough to know what their kid's school ranks as. Eventually, these "bad" schools will be shut down because NCLB is still a thing (in spirit; I know the actual act has been replaced, but you're crazy if you think the federal government isn't willing to step in and play white knight to "save students"), and teachers are out of work and struggle to get jobs because their names are linked to a school that was consistently low performing.
Our system needs SEVERE overhaul, but vouchers are just going to exacerbate the problem. I know that Trump, who only ever wins, appointed DeVos, but this woman is woefully unqualified to comment on just about anything in relation to the public school system.
Quote:First of all let me say this. I appreciate what you do. I know that teaching is difficult, I somewhat did it myself while in the Navy as an Instructor. Also while I was in the Navy I volunteered for mentoring/tutoring at a local elementary school.I agree with everything you've said wholeheartedly. Every. Last. Word.
What you describe is not a failure of teachers or the system, it's a failure of society. Clearly what you describe is a failure of students as well as parents. The problem reflects on teachers and schools, but that's not what the problem is. Throwing more money at the school doesn't solve the problem.
Let me make a guess here. Assuming that you live here in Jacksonville, I'll bet that the school that you work at is in a "less prosperous" part of town.
The real problem is the lack of "the family unit" and lack of parenting. Just taking a guess here, but I would bet that the 1/3 of students that don't consistently turn in homework are probably in the majority when it comes to single parent homes.
The problem isn't the education system (in your case), the problem is society. Throwing more dollars at a school isn't going to make children do their homework.