Manziel will have a tough time adjusting. He's used to scrambling and getting away, but we've seen that he's not as fast when playing on the NFL level. He needs to stop his habit of scrambling and scan the field more.
Bortles just needs to commit his footwork and mechanics to muscle memory and then get some experience. Easier path than Manziel in my book
Quote:What added opportunity? How about a regular season game?
Again, I know how good Bortles is, I would MUCH rather have Bortles, but why is Manziel not given the same opportunity to grow?
I'm going more off your 1st post of Bortles would get the benefit of the doubt...
People would be whining about Bortles if he had a Manziel type game...There is no doubt about that.
Sometimes just like FBT pointed out the trajectories look so different that even most lay people can see one guy is better than the other....
Off the field issues and partying combined with lack of play book knowledge plus rumors.of knowing very little of his college play book are big reasons why people believe Manziel will continue to flounder...
That opinion might change if Manziel can "keep his nose clean" for a full year but his history works against him...and his saving grace scrambling ability isn't doing jack for him in the pros...
Quote:Both QB's played a pre-season game in Detroit. The difference in the media coverage for the two QB's was equivalent to the difference between day and night. Bortles was hardly even mentioned in the news media that covers the Lions, leading up to the game. Manziel was getting as much coverage as the Lions key players and coaches, which is almost unheard of for an opposing player.
Yet, when the dust settled when pre-season football actually was played, Blake Bortles looked like the prototype QB prospect that teams try to trade up for. Johnny Manziel looked the part of someone who was in a reality TV football game. There's absolutely no comparison in terms of the two QB's. If Bortles stays on his current track, the Jaguars are in tremendous shape at the QB position for the next 15 years. Maybe even longer. Keeping him healthy and from noticeably regressing because of a problematic Offensive Line situation makes a great amount of sense.
While Bortles will likely prove to be the best QB from this draft crop, a comparison with Teddy Bridgewater and/ or Derek Carr ( who also played against the Lions ) would seem to be much more fitting than one with Manziel.
A refreshing objective viewpoint from someone not driven by an ESPN agenda.
Not a fan of JF at all, but it looks like he just failed to make an exceptional play. He is a rookie so that isn't so surprising.
If anything it should help us appreciate how special Bortles is playing.
Quote:what the hell is "develope"? :wacko:
Lol yet you had to edit that sentence?
Quote:You gonna cite that tweet you just ripped off or nah?
Quote:No, because it was clearly made by my twitter account.
Quote:
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<b>Jeff Darlington</b> <span> <span>@JeffDarlington </span> </span> · <span> 13h </span>
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If Johnny Manziel was playing even near the level of Blake Bortles, the world would explode.
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Say what?
On subject, Manziel was given the same opportunity as BB has. He chose to party instead of study. It shows.
Quote:I'm going more off your 1st post of Bortles would get the benefit of the doubt...
People would be whining about Bortles if he had a Manziel type game...There is no doubt about that.
Sometimes just like FBT pointed out the trajectories look so different that even most lay people can see one guy is better than the other....
Off the field issues and partying combined with lack of play book knowledge plus rumors.of knowing very little of his college play book are big reasons why people believe Manziel will continue to flounder...
That opinion might change if Manziel can "keep his nose clean" for a full year but his history works against him...and his saving grace scrambling ability isn't doing jack for him in the pros...
Ok.
Im not going to sit here and argue what fans would say. If Blake Bortles had Manziel's stats last game, anyone with the slightest amount of football knowledge would give Blake the benefit of the doubt, because he would deserve it. He's a rookie QB and its expected.
Shocker, the media goes ape poop over someone. Doesn't mean Johnny shouldn't be given time to develop.
Btw his scrambling, which hasnt done jack in the pros, just matched his TD count with Blake Bortles.
Manziel should take this much needed time to develop in this 2014-2015 season. I believe if he gets away from the shenanigans he can develop into a franchise QB
Quote:There is no need to argue its a given...look at the "Bortles Concern" thread already up. Look at the "Lee a possible Bust" thread.....to act like people wouldn't be 2nd guessing the decision to draft Bortles if he had Manziel's 3 games is silly...cause they would be. Especially if we had Manziel and Cleveland had Bortles...FANS would be going ape not just the media.
Do you really think Majority of Cleveland fans would say "I would stick with Manziel over Bortles...he just needs more time to develop"?
Bortles would deserve benefit because he has put 3 impressive games together....If he had had a bad game it would be off set by his 2 other good ones. Manziel hasn't put together an impressive game yet....which is why each continuing "meh" game will add up.
I'm sure Cleveland drafted Manziel as a runner....if he relies on that he won't be healthy very long. 8 for 34 yards is pretty impressive though. Manziel already had 1 TD pass all his own...
Yes, literally EVERYONE wouldnt give him the benefit of the doubt. Does that mean we shouldn't give it to him? Thread titles mean nothing, there is also a " Dont panic if Bortles has a bad game" thread as well.
Again, Im not comparing Blake to johnny, I really dont get why you try to bring the conversation that way. Of course Id rather have Bortles, but im not going to write some guy off after 3 preseason games because he's too good at partyin.
Of course Cleveland didnt draft him to run the ball... he's a QB... They drafted him to make plays, which hes done with his legs.
Quote:Yes, literally EVERYONE wouldnt give him the benefit of the doubt. Does that mean we shouldn't give it to him? Thread titles mean nothing, there is also a " Dont panic if Bortles has a bad game" thread as well.
Again, Im not comparing Blake to johnny, I really dont get why you try to bring the conversation that way. Of course Id rather have Bortles, but im not going to write some guy off after 3 preseason games because he's too good at partyin.
Lol do you really think his mobility had nothing to do with his draft position? Of course Cleveland didnt draft him to run the ball... he's a QB... but it clearly has " done jack" .
Ask yourself the following:
1.) Would I be upset if Jacksonville had drafted Manziel while the Browns had Bortles? (all stats stay the same)
2.) Based off #1, Would I begin to 2nd guess the pick?
3.) Would Manziel's on field antics//performance and offseason inspire confidence that he has his stuff together and can turn it around?
4.) Has Manziel had any impressive performances that make you say this kid has a future in the NFL (Mettenberger/Garoppolo/Thomas type game)
Based on the above especially #3//#4, do you see why people wouldn't want to give him the benefit of the doubt?
On his Mobility...of course it factored in but I think Manziel and Cleveland both severely over-estimated his ability to do that in the Pros. If he continues to try this playstyle he will end up like RGIII.
Manziel is struggling because of Sumlin's offense. While it may be fun to watch, it is detrimental to quarterbacks. Gruden said that Pettine told him Manziel was having to learn how to run a huddle. That is something Bortles learned how to do a long time ago. O'Leary gave Bortles a lot of responsibility running the UCF offense. Sumlin gave Manziel none. He didn't call plays. He didn't audible and never has. So he has to learn all that in, from what I've read, an extremely wordy and complicated offense.
i
Also, there's a reason so few quarterbacks that are 5'11 have become franchise guys. You can count them on one hand. The chances of him becoming good are slim. I agree with Herm Edwards this week. Guys like Manziel have to overcome their athletic ability because it is natural for them to take off and run. Most can't overcome it. Even more concerning was the redskins game. Manziel was chased down repeatedly by backup linebackers that were 250 pounds and run 4.7 (Gabe Miller).
Quote:Say what?
On subject, Manziel was given the same opportunity as BB has. He chose to party instead of study. It shows.
Yes, it is I, Jeff Darlington. That's my twitter account!
Quote:Manziel is struggling because of Sumlin's offense. While it may be fun to watch, it is detrimental to quarterbacks. Gruden said that Pettine told him Manziel was having to learn how to run a huddle. That is something Bortles learned how to do a long time ago. O'Leary gave Bortles a lot of responsibility running the UCF offense. Sumlin gave Manziel none. He didn't call plays. He didn't audible and never has. So he has to learn all that in, from what I've read, an extremely wordy and complicated offense.
i
Also, there's a reason so few quarterbacks that are 5'11 have become franchise guys. You can count them on one hand. The chances of him becoming good are slim. I agree with Herm Edwards this week. Guys like Manziel have to overcome their athletic ability because it is natural for them to take off and run. Most can't overcome it. Even more concerning was the redskins game. Manziel was chased down repeatedly by backup linebackers that were 250 pounds and run 4.7 (Gabe Miller).
True. Pettine said that Johnny was having trouble with the playbook:
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...e-playbook
Which leads back to him and all of his off the field distractions. If you're struggling with the playbook, you should spend time learning and analyzing it and cut out the distractions, especially if you have a good chance of become the starting QB of an NFL team. He probably could have won the starting job from Hoyer who i'd dare say is 2x worse than Henne right now.
Quote:Ask yourself the following:
1.) Would I be upset if Jacksonville had drafted Manziel while the Browns had Bortles? (all stats stay the same)
2.) Based off #1, Would I begin to 2nd guess the pick?
3.) Would Manziel's on field antics//performance and offseason inspire confidence that he has his stuff together and can turn it around?
4.) Has Manziel had any impressive performances that make you say this kid has a future in the NFL (Mettenberger/Garoppolo/Thomas type game)
Based on the above especially #3//#4, do you see why people wouldn't want to give him the benefit of the doubt?
On his Mobility...of course it factored in but I think Manziel and Cleveland both severely over-estimated his ability to do that in the Pros. If he continues to try this playstyle he will end up like RGIII.
Blake Bortles has nothing to do with the point im trying to make.
Johnny Manziel should be given time to develop. EVERYONE knew that coming in.
Ive seen a few plays... even passes... made by Johnny that have been NFL worthy. Im not judging his future in the NFL after... what? 6 quarters of football?
Quote:Blake Bortles has nothing to do with the point im trying to make.
Johnny Manziel should be given time to develop. EVERYONE knew that coming in.
Ive seen a few plays... even passes... made by Johnny that have been NFL worthy. Im not judging his future in the NFL after... what? 6 quarters of football?
Blake Bortles is a fellow rookie...
Both were considered 1st rounders...
Both had stuff to work on and Bortles was probably a bigger project than Manziel...
Both have been given the same opportunity...
One chose to party while the other studied...
The results can be seen by even the non hard core football fans...
But yes Bortles shouldn't be compared to Manziel.
Would you prefer to compare him to Garoppolo or Metenberger instead?
They meet the above criteria and we're drafted later so by the logic you used they shouldn't be as good since Bortles at 3 is expected to be better than Manziel.
Quote:Blake Bortles has nothing to do with the point im trying to make.
Johnny Manziel should be given time to develop
Atta guy.
No e at the end of "develop". Nice to see you learning.
Quote:Atta guy.
No e at the end of "develop". Nice to see you learning.
I think in England you put an 'e' when the word ends in 'p'. For instance, "shoppe"
Regarding Manziel V. Bortles, I'm glad we got a pocket passer. Manziel seems to be the trend for QBs right now. Mobile and able to make big plays with there legs via the spread option or just when a play breaks down. Just look at RGIII, Wilson, and Keap --though to a lesser extent with Wilson and Keap.
While the spread option is becoming less and less the trend in SF and Seattle, and Washington wants RGIII to be more of a passer, the fascination franchises are having with these hyper athletic QBs has been going on for a few years. Manziel reminds me of these types of QBs.
After a while, your legs aren't going to be as effective and your ability to figure out how to pass in the pocket is going to make or break one's career.
Manziel, one he figures stuff out may be a good QB. But his ceiling in the NFL no where near where BB5's ceiling is. The GM picked properly with BB5.
Quote:
Manziel, one he figures stuff out may be a good QB. But his ceiling in the NFL no where near where BB5's ceiling is. The GM picked properly with BB5.
Yep...
I remember reading a few weeks ago - some NFL metrics regarding success at the QB position and while obviously more goes into it than just size, size indeed was a correlating factor.
Bortles has the prototypical size, yet still is mobile, and also carries the accuracy (best deep accuracy of the draft class) as well as the arm strength. In addition to those, he's very poised, calm and intelligent, yet still ultra competitive. He really has very little weaknesses, when you watch him play.
I wish I would have gave Bortles more consideration prior to the draft. I think at the time I was close minded because of the Gabbert thing so I was sort of shutting out any QB that even had remote similarities to him. (in this case they were more phyiscal than anything) but still....
Quote:Can someone tell me how that is manziels fault?
Step up in the pocket.....Like all good QBs do.....
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