Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

Quote: 

 

Mojo definitely had a nose for the endzone, but Fred's biggest roadblock to the goal-line was always Coughlin.  So many times I saw Fred earn a TD for this team only for Coughlin to pull him for a "short-yardage back" when we got close to the end-zone.  Irritated me to no end considering our short-yardage backs were never better than Taylor in short-yardage situations.  Cost him lots of TD's, and probably Pro-Bowls, and possibly even a shot at the HOF.

 

yep, remember Stacey Mack? leached a bunch of short yard TD's off of Fred. 

I love the discussion about Fred Taylor and MJD. Probably the only 2 players known to casual fans outside the city. They both are great RBs in different ways. I lean toward MJD because he helped me won a couple fantasy championship, so I am biased.

Need to get us a Super Bowl winning QB in the ROH

Quote:I love the discussion about Fred Taylor and MJD. Probably the only 2 players known to casual fans outside the city. They both are great RBs in different ways. I lean toward MJD because he helped me won a couple fantasy championship, so I am biased.

One more thing that kept Taylor from getting the recognition he deserved, fantasy... Because his coach kept pulling him in short-yardage, goal-line situations, his fantasy numbers were deflated.  Fantasy team owners have been casting an awful lot of Pro-Bowl ballots over the last 15 or 20 years.

Quote:One more thing that kept Taylor from getting the recognition he deserved, fantasy... Because his coach kept pulling him in short-yardage, goal-line situations, his fantasy numbers were deflated.  Fantasy team owners have been casting an awful lot of Pro-Bowl ballots over the last 15 or 20 years.

 

If Taylor had been given all those goal-line carries, one could imagine he might have broken down much sooner, just like Jones-Drew eventually did. Would Taylor have been able to rush for over 1000yds in each of his age 30 and 31 seasons if he had been given more goal-line work? Hard to say.

Quote:If Taylor had been given all those goal-line carries, one could imagine he might have broken down much sooner, just like Jones-Drew eventually did. Would Taylor have been able to rush for over 1000yds in each of his age 30 and 31 seasons if he had been given more goal-line work? Hard to say.

 

Why, because of 30-40 extra carries/ hits?  :unsure: 

Taylor's strength was not inside the 5 yard line.  His style was to wait for the hole to open then use his quickness to burst through it.  There are no holes at the goal line.  That requires a straight on hard nosed runner that bangs into the hold.  The risk of losing a yard or 2 w/ Freddie at the 1 yard line outweighed just giving Mack the ball and letting him pound.

Quote:Taylor's strength was not inside the 5 yard line.  His style was to wait for the hole to open then use his quickness to burst through it.  There are no holes at the goal line.  That requires a straight on hard nosed runner that bangs into the hold.  The risk of losing a yard or 2 w/ Freddie at the 1 yard line outweighed just giving Mack the ball and letting him pound.

 

That isn't entirely true. While it may not have been his strength, it wasn't a weakness for him. Coughlin loved to substitute him at the goal line, and there wasn't a legitimate reason for it. MJD was arguably better at short yardage situations, and his presence was justified. However, throwing in Mack, Stewart, Stith, and the handful of others to rob Taylor from these TDs were stupid. Stewart may have been the only one equally effective. Are you telling me Stith, Mack, Howard, Shelton, etc. were better at short yardage? 

I agree.  Taylor could be a bruiser when he needed to but was such an elite player running away from people, he got a knock for being less physical.  To use an analogy, he was like a greyhound in a rottweiler's body.

Has anyone thought of this possibility? Coughlin the GM wanted to keep Taylor's potential contract price down....so Coughlin, the coach and play caller, instead of giving Taylor those short yardage runs for easy TD's he gave them to players like Mack, Stith, etc etc...since they weren't going to get big money regardless... Additional TD's combined with Freddy's already impressive yardage numbers would have meant potentially "millions" more when his contract was due to be extended...

 

At first I thought nah....but when you consider they were also up against the cap...

Quote:Has anyone thought of this possibility? Coughlin the GM wanted to keep Taylor's potential contract price down....so Coughlin, the coach and play caller, instead of giving Taylor those short yardage runs for easy TD's he gave them to players like Mack, Stith, etc etc...since they weren't going to get big money regardless... Additional TD's combined with Freddy's already impressive yardage numbers would have meant potentially "millions" more when his contract was due to be extended...

 

At first I thought nah....but when you consider they were also up against the cap...

Certainly possible. 

Quote:Why, because of 30-40 extra carries/ hits?   :unsure:

 

I would venture that he lost more than 30-40 carries over his 10 years with the Jags. If he got all the goal-line work in his 10 years with the Jags, I feel it is safe to say he lost at least 2 carries a game -- maybe you disagree on that number but 32 carries a year over 10 years = 320 carries.

 

So no, I don't think it's ridiculous to say that shaving what amounts to a whole season's worth of the hardest carries a RB can get, might have extended his juice an extra year or two.

Quote:Has anyone thought of this possibility? Coughlin the GM wanted to keep Taylor's potential contract price down....so Coughlin, the coach and play caller, instead of giving Taylor those short yardage runs for easy TD's he gave them to players like Mack, Stith, etc etc...since they weren't going to get big money regardless... Additional TD's combined with Freddy's already impressive yardage numbers would have meant potentially "millions" more when his contract was due to be extended...

 

At first I thought nah....but when you consider they were also up against the cap...

Coughlin was a coach first. He wasn't going to sacrifice a win on the field to save the team money in contract negotiations. If you honestly believe otherwise, you don't know Coughlin.

Quote:Coughlin was a coach first. He wasn't going to sacrifice a win on the field to save the team money in contract negotiations. If you honestly believe otherwise, you don't know Coughlin.

 

who said anything about sacrificing wins? He was still getting TD's as the result of the decision to give the goal line carries to other RB than Fred. 

With Fred, I firmly believed for a long time that at any given play, we may have the best player in the world with the ball in his hands.

 

I never felt that way with Mojo.  Mojo was good, very good, but never great IMO.

Quote:who said anything about sacrificing wins? He was still getting TD's as the result of the decision to give the goal line carries to other RB than Fred.

If you're not putting your best option on the field, you're risking wins.

Quote:Saying the opposite, but not in the context you are understanding apparently...

 

Barry/ FRed would be the special talents, whereas MoJo/ Martin would be the "very good" players but not elite runners. 

 

 

 

lol.....this board and its penchant for accusing others of not watching player x or y....smh....

 

We're all avid football fans and have been watching pretty much every player out there. Not sure why people love to make that former accusation all the time, as if we were instead watching LA Law and never seen a football game ever, and wouldn't know Barry Sanders from Barry White.... 

I did that on purpose primarily because your extremely general comparison is [BLEEP] and baseless.

 

People make that accusation because users make silly comparisons like the one you made above.

 

 

Quote:That's funny.  You talked about MJD's knack for landing in the end zone, but you picked a play where he got caught on the 1 yard line.  

Well, he scored the very next play. But the point was that there are multiple plays that only MJD would've been able to pull off and that's one of many.

 

MJD was a special player here and every bit as good as Fred in his prime. It's unfair to say he wasn't considering his numbers and the circumstances.

 

 

Quote:Fred wouldn't have been caught from behind...  He was a physical freak of nature.  Nobody his size and with his power should be able to run as fast as him, and he certainly shouldn't have had the lateral quickness to go with it.

 

Mojo definitely had a nose for the endzone, but Fred's biggest roadblock to the goal-line was always Coughlin.  So many times I saw Fred earn a TD for this team only for Coughlin to pull him for a "short-yardage back" when we got close to the end-zone.  Irritated me to no end considering our short-yardage backs were never better than Taylor in short-yardage situations.  Cost him lots of TD's, and probably Pro-Bowls, and possibly even a shot at the HOF.

 

I honestly don't think Fred wouldn't have gotten that far, and that's no sleight on him, but MJD got out of that because of physical assets that are exclusive to him, like being short and large and being able to continue full speed despite contact with multiple defenders.

Quote:MJD was a special player here and every bit as good as Fred in his prime. It's unfair to say he wasn't considering his numbers and the circumstances.

 

... and here is where you're losing people. 

 

Taylor missed 30 +/- games in his first 8 years and still hit 8367 yards--300 more than MJD in the same timespan. Not to mention he only had 27 more carries. Of course, that doesn't include the MANY clutch and record-breaking performances Taylor put on in big games and playoff games. 

 

MJD was the guy you used to beat-down a team and hopefully he'd break a big run in the 4th. Taylor was the guy that you used when you were down 7 in the 4th with 2 minutes left. 

 

Having said all that, I'd likely put MJD in the The Ring if he continues to excel elsewhere.

Quote:I did that on purpose primarily because your extremely general comparison is [BLEEP] and baseless.

 

People make that accusation because users make silly comparisons like the one you made above.

 

 

 

 How was it a silly comparison??? Barry Sanders equated to Fred in the comparison as both were the elite talents. MoJo compared to Curtis Martin as both were "very good" all around RB, but yet neither ever were really an "elite talent". 

 

 

Its not specifically comparing the each's game to the other, but the level of player. 

 

I didn't think it was that hard to comprehend, nor did I think it was "baseless & [BLEEP]"...

Quote: How was it a silly comparison??? Barry Sanders equated to Fred in the comparison as both were the elite talents. MoJo compared to Curtis Martin as both were "very good" all around RB, but yet neither ever were really an "elite talent". 

 

 

Its not specifically comparing the each's game to the other, but the level of player. 

 

I didn't think it was that hard to comprehend, nor did I think it was "baseless & [BLEEP]"...

 

How was MJD not an elite talent? Just because you say so? Just because you think he doesn't look the part?

 

He was a top 3 back in his prime and has actually seen the top of the rushing ladder in a time where we may be witnessing the greatest running back to ever play football in Adrian Peterson. Comparatively speaking, MJD vs. today's backs? He's absolutely an elite talent, and even compared to Fred Taylor, as a running back and not exclusively a runner, he's still an elite talent. If you're going to sell him short like that, consider the fact that he also holds the franchise record for the most rushing yards and TDs in a season. If he isn't elite, yet topped Fred's single season career highs, what does that make Fred?

 

Anyways, the original debate was who I'd take between Fred and MJD, and I still insist that MJD's ability to succeed in the receiving, pass blocking and return game make him ultimately more valuable to my hypothetical 2014 offense. Take that as you will.

 

 

Quote:... and here is where you're losing people. 

 

Taylor missed 30 +/- games in his first 8 years and still hit 8367 yards--300 more than MJD in the same timespan. Not to mention he only had 27 more carries. Of course, that doesn't include the MANY clutch and record-breaking performances Taylor put on in big games and playoff games. 

 

MJD was the guy you used to beat-down a team and hopefully he'd break a big run in the 4th. Taylor was the guy that you used when you were down 7 in the 4th with 2 minutes left. 

 

Having said all that, I'd likely put MJD in the The Ring if he continues to excel elsewhere.

 

I'll just go ahead and mention again that we're talking about these two players' primes. I think that's being missed quite a bit and understandable since even I don't read anything past 9 pages.

 

No one's arguing that Fred Taylor's longevity and production over the span of his career made him THE running back of the Jaguars. That's amazing, and something not even some of the greatest could've achieved.

 

What we're discussing is which running back we'd take in their prime, MJD or Taylor.

 

Not runner. Not receiver. Not blocker.

Running back, a position that primarily but not exclusively involves running the football but also involves the latter two of the above.

Considering MJD's total body of work in all three of those departments, I can't put my heart into saying I'd take prime Fred Taylor over MJD when I can get similar production on the ground while having a very good receiver out of the backfield and a solid pass blocker and a guy that has proven he can be productive despite the lack of talent around him. But I respect anyone's opinion who says they'd prefer Taylor.

 

But I also respectfully disagree.

 

And with that, I don't think any of us will change our stance so there's no point in continuing rationalizing my opinion.