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(02-03-2018, 03:35 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (02-03-2018, 02:37 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Except the angle of drafting a good QB, which everyone seems to think is impossible for some reason.
We're talking about finding a guy in the late first or late second round potentially that just needs to be as good as, or better than Blake Bortles. This is not exactly the search for the Holy Grail.
What odds would you put it on not only picking the right QB, but having him developed enough to lead a super bowl push by year 2? I'm just doing ballpark research but in the last decade or so worth of drafts it looks like there are about 8 or 9 QBs drafted a year in the late 1st and after, and a little less than 1 franchise QB per draft. Some of the stronger ones like Jimmy G and Cousins didn't start until year 3 or later as well.
I think giving it a 10% chance is being awfully optimistic.
(02-03-2018, 05:28 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, didn't figure I'd get a straight answer. You know I am not talking about finding the next Joe Montana, but you also know the odds are slim and don't want to admit it is the longshot option of the ones that I supplied...that everyone also conveniently ignored.
The truth is simple, the best way way to maximize our window is signing Cousins. No combination of gambling on a Bortles step forward or a draftee comes close.
What straight answer were you seeking? A percentage?
With the following fix to your flawed question - I'll give you a number. It's a pretty random guess, but sure, I'll play if you are trying to accuse me of avoiding something.
What is the percentage chance this F.O. can hit on a QB in the 2018 draft that plays as good as, or better than Blake Bortles in his second year?
65%
It's a pretty intriguing crop of QBs.
I do not "know" or think that's it's the longshot you keep insisting it is.
You can ignore this option all you want and deem it a longshot. I think it's the best and smartest way forward.
So more likely than not...yikes. History would say that is exceedingly optimistic.
Rosen, Mayfield , Jackson, Rudolph could all be good not sure I'd want them starting year 1 not sure.
(02-03-2018, 06:14 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]So more likely than not...yikes. History would say that is exceedingly optimistic.
Depends on what you expect from the QB.
I think it's a very achievable goal.
When you've got a roster full of young talent and pending large contracts in the coming years - "draft and develop" is just such an
obvious way forward.
I'm baffled as to why people are so skittish about it.
Half of these QBs coming out clearly have better technique than Bortles did when he came out and they'd likely have a year to sit and work with Milanovich and Hackett.
This is just not a longshot proposition in my mind.
First - Identify your preferred two or three QB prospects and plan your draft day strategy and contingencies to attain the best one you can.
Second - Stop worrying about cap-hell.
I do not share the fear of drafting an upgrade to Bortles that many folks are expressing.
(02-03-2018, 05:28 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, didn't figure I'd get a straight answer. You know I am not talking about finding the next Joe Montana, but you also know the odds are slim and don't want to admit it is the longshot option of the ones that I supplied...that everyone also conveniently ignored.
The truth is simple, the best way way to maximize our window is signing Cousins. No combination of gambling on a Bortles step forward or a draftee comes close.
Are you his agent? Funny how you disappeared after he lit up the Giants, for 158 and 3 picks. He had all the pressure in the world in that game, and he folded like a cheap suit.
(02-03-2018, 06:39 PM)atburg Wrote: [ -> ]Are you his agent? Funny how you disappeared after he lit up the Giants, for 158 and 3 picks. He had all the pressure in the world in that game, and he folded like a cheap suit.
Nope, I just know how to run cost benefit analysis. If someone can give a solution that is better than signing Cousins, without massively overblowing how easy it is to draft a solid starting QB without an elite draft pick, I am more than willing to consider. So far that has not happened.
And I have no clue what you mean by I disappeared that makes no sense. Regardless, a sample of one game means exactly nothing.
(02-03-2018, 06:39 PM)atburg Wrote: [ -> ] (02-03-2018, 05:28 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, didn't figure I'd get a straight answer. You know I am not talking about finding the next Joe Montana, but you also know the odds are slim and don't want to admit it is the longshot option of the ones that I supplied...that everyone also conveniently ignored.
The truth is simple, the best way way to maximize our window is signing Cousins. No combination of gambling on a Bortles step forward or a draftee comes close.
Are you his agent? Funny how you disappeared after he lit up the Giants, for 158 and 3 picks. He had all the pressure in the world in that game, and he folded like a cheap suit.
Bortles is the epitome of folding up like a cheap suit.
45%, 0 TD, 5 INT in 4th quarters of games this year within a touchdown either way
I don't even think it's a guarantee they can draft one of the six 1st round projected QBs in the draft without trading up
Browns (2), Bills (2), Jets, Broncos, Giants, Cardinals, Ravens and Bengals are teams that could very realistically take a QB with their first pick, and that doesn't even include the Saints, Chargers or Steelers who can afford to draft and let them sit behind their HoF for a couple years
and I wouldn't want to trade picks for any of these latter half first round QBs
All this Blake hate is amazing but it's all good either way because he is back for the 2018 season and another year to prove his worth to the haters out there.
(02-03-2018, 07:52 PM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]All this Blake hate is amazing but it's all good either way because he is back for the 2018 season and another year to prove his worth to the haters out there.
What's more amazing is that so many people want to give $30M to a guy who's own team didn't even want him.
I see Kirk's Cousins are still hanging around.
(02-03-2018, 07:03 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (02-03-2018, 06:39 PM)atburg Wrote: [ -> ]Are you his agent? Funny how you disappeared after he lit up the Giants, for 158 and 3 picks. He had all the pressure in the world in that game, and he folded like a cheap suit.
Nope, I just know how to run cost benefit analysis. If someone can give a solution that is better than signing Cousins, without massively overblowing how easy it is to draft a solid starting QB without an elite draft pick, I am more than willing to consider. So far that has not happened.
And I have no clue what you mean by I disappeared that makes no sense. Regardless, a sample of one game means exactly nothing.
My solution? Draft someone to learn behind the guy who almost went to the super bowl. If needed, he takes over in 2019.
(02-03-2018, 07:39 PM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ] (02-03-2018, 06:39 PM)atburg Wrote: [ -> ]Are you his agent? Funny how you disappeared after he lit up the Giants, for 158 and 3 picks. He had all the pressure in the world in that game, and he folded like a cheap suit.
Bortles is the epitome of folding up like a cheap suit.
45%, 0 TD, 5 INT in 4th quarters of games this year within a touchdown either way
Yet, he won us the. Pittsburgh game in the fourth quarter.
(02-03-2018, 07:03 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (02-03-2018, 06:39 PM)atburg Wrote: [ -> ]Are you his agent? Funny how you disappeared after he lit up the Giants, for 158 and 3 picks. He had all the pressure in the world in that game, and he folded like a cheap suit.
Nope, I just know how to run cost benefit analysis. If someone can give a solution that is better than signing Cousins, without massively overblowing how easy it is to draft a solid starting QB without an elite draft pick, I am more than willing to consider. So far that has not happened.
And I have no clue what you mean by I disappeared that makes no sense. Regardless, a sample of one game means exactly nothing.
One game sample, with his future on the table means something.
(02-03-2018, 07:52 PM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]All this Blake hate is amazing but it's all good either way because he is back for the 2018 season and another year to prove his worth to the haters out there.
It’s not Blake hate.
It’s realizing the QB position can be upgraded considering Blake was extremely average this season.
Positives on Blake:
+He is young. Bortles turns 26 years old this year.
+Athletic: I would like them to use his talent even more with his legs. Run/Pass threat.
+Tough: Bortles has a set of stones on him. Guts, isn't afraid to use his size to make a play or stand tough in the pocket. He does not miss games
+Respect: Regardless of what the outside word thinks, the team has his back. Numerous times the defense and other plays praised Bortles
+AFC championship game: How many big name Qb's playing today haven't been there? I will give you a hint it's a lot.
Negatives on Bortles:
-Still suffers from basic fundamental issues: Too many times is he missing easy throws because his timing or release is off. This leads to the next category
-Accuracy: Bortles still misses too many easy throws. Missed too many chances in leading throws to catch receivers in stride. Bortles made a couple of amazing throws in 2017 that leads to the next category
-Consistency: Blake still has those games where he just flat out looks awful. Every game counts in the NFL
-Football IQ: To be fair I don't know if the coaches restrict him or he just doesn't understand what is going on. I have just seen this team run straight up the gut in 10 man fronts on first down. You do that to a good QB he is going over the top on you. I hope they work on using more audibles for teams who stack the box every time.
(02-04-2018, 02:39 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Positives on Blake:
+He is young. Bortles turns 26 years old this year.
+Athletic: I would like them to use his talent even more with his legs. Run/Pass threat.
+Tough: Bortles has a set of stones on him. Guts, isn't afraid to use his size to make a play or stand tough in the pocket. He does not miss games
+Respect: Regardless of what the outside word thinks, the team has his back. Numerous times the defense and other plays praised Bortles
+AFC championship game: How many big name Qb's playing today haven't been there? I will give you a hint it's a lot.
Negatives on Bortles:
-Still suffers from basic fundamental issues: Too many times is he missing easy throws because his timing or release is off. This leads to the next category
-Accuracy: Bortles still misses too many easy throws. Missed too many chances in leading throws to catch receivers in stride. Bortles made a couple of amazing throws in 2017 that leads to the next category
-Consistency: Blake still has those games where he just flat out looks awful. Every game counts in the NFL
-Football IQ: To be fair I don't know if the coaches restrict him or he just doesn't understand what is going on. I have just seen this team run straight up the gut in 10 man fronts on first down. You do that to a good QB he is going over the top on you. I hope they work on using more audibles for teams who stack the box every time.
Not to mention that he played hurt this year.
What about Fournette, Fowler and 5 first rounders for Wentz and Corey Clement?
(02-04-2018, 02:39 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Positives on Blake:
+He is young. Bortles turns 26 years old this year.
+Athletic: I would like them to use his talent even more with his legs. Run/Pass threat.
+Tough: Bortles has a set of stones on him. Guts, isn't afraid to use his size to make a play or stand tough in the pocket. He does not miss games
+Respect: Regardless of what the outside word thinks, the team has his back. Numerous times the defense and other plays praised Bortles
+AFC championship game: How many big name Qb's playing today haven't been there? I will give you a hint it's a lot.
Negatives on Bortles:
-Still suffers from basic fundamental issues: Too many times is he missing easy throws because his timing or release is off. This leads to the next category
-Accuracy: Bortles still misses too many easy throws. Missed too many chances in leading throws to catch receivers in stride. Bortles made a couple of amazing throws in 2017 that leads to the next category
-Consistency: Blake still has those games where he just flat out looks awful. Every game counts in the NFL
-Football IQ: To be fair I don't know if the coaches restrict him or he just doesn't understand what is going on. I have just seen this team run straight up the gut in 10 man fronts on first down. You do that to a good QB he is going over the top on you. I hope they work on using more audibles for teams who stack the box every time.
This is pretty much where we are. I get that fans realize we have the best roster we've had in some time and if only we had a solid QB we could win it all. Now let's be realistic, A LOT of teams will feel they are a player or two away from a SB run. When you throw in the shortening life expectancy of GM's and HC's and i look at someone like Cousins and teams will break the bank and to hell with 4 years down the line, they want to 'win' now. Now, i don't think we need to go this path, Cousins is as much of a gamble as an extra Blake year to me, he's by no means a finished article and you have to look at Washington tagging him for 2 years and then dumping him for Alex Smith, another QB some didn't want.
Coughlin, Caldwell and Marrone will know what we are doing. They watch Bortles every day in training, they see what he can do and can't. They will know if he can be improved to the level they want or just can't. I give Bortles a lot of credit, after last season, he had to come out and be sensational and whilst he improved significantly, there's still plenty of room to get better. The guy is tough as nails and has taken more criticism than nearly every other QB but he still shows up.
I'm really torn on this, i think Bortles earnt another season with how he played but we have to have a plan other than Henne.
But all the negatives are really worrying, that's the basics of being a QB.
(02-06-2018, 07:05 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-04-2018, 02:39 PM)jaguarmvp Wrote: [ -> ]Positives on Blake:
+He is young. Bortles turns 26 years old this year.
+Athletic: I would like them to use his talent even more with his legs. Run/Pass threat.
+Tough: Bortles has a set of stones on him. Guts, isn't afraid to use his size to make a play or stand tough in the pocket. He does not miss games
+Respect: Regardless of what the outside word thinks, the team has his back. Numerous times the defense and other plays praised Bortles
+AFC championship game: How many big name Qb's playing today haven't been there? I will give you a hint it's a lot.
Negatives on Bortles:
-Still suffers from basic fundamental issues: Too many times is he missing easy throws because his timing or release is off. This leads to the next category
-Accuracy: Bortles still misses too many easy throws. Missed too many chances in leading throws to catch receivers in stride. Bortles made a couple of amazing throws in 2017 that leads to the next category
-Consistency: Blake still has those games where he just flat out looks awful. Every game counts in the NFL
-Football IQ: To be fair I don't know if the coaches restrict him or he just doesn't understand what is going on. I have just seen this team run straight up the gut in 10 man fronts on first down. You do that to a good QB he is going over the top on you. I hope they work on using more audibles for teams who stack the box every time.
This is pretty much where we are. I get that fans realize we have the best roster we've had in some time and if only we had a solid QB we could win it all. Now let's be realistic, A LOT of teams will feel they are a player or two away from a SB run. When you throw in the shortening life expectancy of GM's and HC's and i look at someone like Cousins and teams will break the bank and to hell with 4 years down the line, they want to 'win' now. Now, i don't think we need to go this path, Cousins is as much of a gamble as an extra Blake year to me, he's by no means a finished article and you have to look at Washington tagging him for 2 years and then dumping him for Alex Smith, another QB some didn't want.
Coughlin, Caldwell and Marrone will know what we are doing. They watch Bortles every day in training, they see what he can do and can't. They will know if he can be improved to the level they want or just can't. I give Bortles a lot of credit, after last season, he had to come out and be sensational and whilst he improved significantly, there's still plenty of room to get better. The guy is tough as nails and has taken more criticism than nearly every other QB but he still shows up.
I'm really torn on this, i think Bortles earnt another season with how he played but we have to have a plan other than Henne.
But all the negatives are really worrying, that's the basics of being a QB.
So you don't think Blake is a solid QB?
(02-06-2018, 07:38 PM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2018, 07:05 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ]This is pretty much where we are. I get that fans realize we have the best roster we've had in some time and if only we had a solid QB we could win it all. Now let's be realistic, A LOT of teams will feel they are a player or two away from a SB run. When you throw in the shortening life expectancy of GM's and HC's and i look at someone like Cousins and teams will break the bank and to hell with 4 years down the line, they want to 'win' now. Now, i don't think we need to go this path, Cousins is as much of a gamble as an extra Blake year to me, he's by no means a finished article and you have to look at Washington tagging him for 2 years and then dumping him for Alex Smith, another QB some didn't want.
Coughlin, Caldwell and Marrone will know what we are doing. They watch Bortles every day in training, they see what he can do and can't. They will know if he can be improved to the level they want or just can't. I give Bortles a lot of credit, after last season, he had to come out and be sensational and whilst he improved significantly, there's still plenty of room to get better. The guy is tough as nails and has taken more criticism than nearly every other QB but he still shows up.
I'm really torn on this, i think Bortles earnt another season with how he played but we have to have a plan other than Henne.
But all the negatives are really worrying, that's the basics of being a QB.
So you don't think Blake is a solid QB?
This is my problem. Every time I think we should keep Blake I remember his mistakes, when I think move on, i remember some of his great plays this year and think he can improve again.
I think the main problem is some of his bad decisions are so bad. You do wonder what he was seeing or thinking. He did cut down on them as the season progressed but the challenge will be a lot tougher next year. Coughlin and co have been in football a long time, they know what can and can't be fixed. A lot of it also depends on what we want him to do. Russell Wilson and Brady are great QB's but they'd struggle in the others O.
If Bortles can do the things we want then we have got our guy and hope he improves more over the years but a lot of teams are after QB's and there's no guarantees.
Just out of interest, if you had to rank the 32 starting NFL QB'S, where would you have Bortles? What other players would be around him?
(02-06-2018, 07:55 PM)JagFan81 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-06-2018, 07:38 PM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]So you don't think Blake is a solid QB?
This is my problem. Every time I think we should keep Blake I remember his mistakes, when I think move on, i remember some of his great plays this year and think he can improve again.
I think the main problem is some of his bad decisions are so bad. You do wonder what he was seeing or thinking. He did cut down on them as the season progressed but the challenge will be a lot tougher next year. Coughlin and co have been in football a long time, they know what can and can't be fixed. A lot of it also depends on what we want him to do. Russell Wilson and Brady are great QB's but they'd struggle in the others O.
If Bortles can do the things we want then we have got our guy and hope he improves more over the years but a lot of teams are after QB's and there's no guarantees.
Just out of interest, if you had to rank the 32 starting NFL QB'S, where would you have Bortles? What other players would be around him?
qbr have him rated 12th, pff have him ranked 17th and football outsiders have him ranked 16th. Personally, i think he's 16 in the same ball park as dak prescott, cam newton and above qb's like marcus mariotta and Joe Flacco.
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