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(02-01-2018, 04:14 PM)jagsfan1983 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2018, 02:40 PM)BklynJag Wrote: [ -> ]If we had a Kirk Cousins or Alex Smith, we blow out Buffalo, can you agree on that?
Alex Smith played Buffalo this year. He lost. Scored 10 points. Had lower rating than Bortles.
He scored 10? How many did the Jags score against them?
This thread has gotten so off course though lol
Smith is on the Skins so he's not an option anymore. It's looking more and more like Blake will be the stater in 2018 so lets hope they give him a few more weapons and he continues to work hard. Can't have another 2016 offseason.
(02-01-2018, 10:55 AM)JAGFAN88 Wrote: [ -> ]If you didnt figure it out Tom Brady is the top stats BB5 is the bottom. Simply amazing ppl want to get rid of him.
Aaaaaaand this is why I just went over how dangerous it is to compare stats between eras, and yes it's been proven that a decade in the NFL is easily enough time to skew comparisons.
Bortles + stats (Y/A+ NY/A+ AY/A+ ANY/A+ Cmp%+ TD%+ Int%+ Sack%+ Rate+ all adjusted to competition where 100 is league average) -
99 105 98 102 91 97 97 114 95
Now Brady's - 117 118 117 118 105 122 104 110 115
Bortles' 4th year was pretty much exactly average. A little above or below average per stat across the board. Brady's 4th year was across the board very good. No comparison.
Someone said Alex Smith would have blown out Buffalo. Was just pointing out that in the real world he played Buffalo and played them no better than Bortles.
And sorry but Greg Cosell is as well respected and rock solid at film breakdown as any person who has ever done it. If you are trying to use character assassination as an attempt discredit him you need to seriously evaluate your biases.
(02-01-2018, 05:47 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]And sorry but Greg Cosell is as well respected and rock solid at film breakdown as any person who has ever done it. If you are trying to use character assassination as an attempt discredit him you need to seriously evaluate your biases.
And you're not doing the same thing trying to use his analysis of Blake as gospel?
(02-01-2018, 05:41 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2018, 10:55 AM)JAGFAN88 Wrote: [ -> ]If you didnt figure it out Tom Brady is the top stats BB5 is the bottom. Simply amazing ppl want to get rid of him.
Aaaaaaand this is why I just went over how dangerous it is to compare stats between eras, and yes it's been proven that a decade in the NFL is easily enough time to skew comparisons.
Bortles + stats (Y/A+ NY/A+ AY/A+ ANY/A+ Cmp%+ TD%+ Int%+ Sack%+ Rate+ all adjusted to competition where 100 is league average) -
99 105 98 102 91 97 97 114 95
Now Brady's - 117 118 117 118 105 122 104 110 115
Bortles' 4th year was pretty much exactly average. A little above or below average per stat across the board. Brady's 4th year was across the board very good. No comparison.
Tom Brady in his fourth year- 60.2 completion %, 23 touchdowns , 12 interceptions, 6.9 yards per attempt, and an 85.9 rating.
(02-01-2018, 06:13 PM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2018, 05:47 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]And sorry but Greg Cosell is as well respected and rock solid at film breakdown as any person who has ever done it. If you are trying to use character assassination as an attempt discredit him you need to seriously evaluate your biases.
And you're not doing the same thing trying to use his analysis of Blake as gospel?
I didn't say anything about what the tweet said in either direction, much less confirm it as gospel. I said attacking the person instead of trying to debate the content, especially when the person has an impeccable reputation, is not the way to try to sway an opinion. It just makes it easier to shrug off that persons opinion easier in the future.
(02-01-2018, 06:22 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2018, 06:13 PM)leopold332002 Wrote: [ -> ]And you're not doing the same thing trying to use his analysis of Blake as gospel?
I didn't say anything about what the tweet said in either direction, much less confirm it as gospel. I said attacking the person instead of trying to debate the content, especially when the person has an impeccable reputation, is not the way to try to sway an opinion. It just makes it easier to shrug off that persons opinion easier in the future.
I truly respect what you're saying but what you're not doing this painting a fair picture of the situation especially on Jaguar today radio show. Adam Kaplan has said glowing things about Blake Bortles but nobody mention it because it don't fit the narrative that you wanted this situation and that's not right.
It really is something.
For a team and fan base that his never had (or been spoiled by) an Elite QB and one who has been searching through and running off QBs since forever. It's awfully funny just how fast people want to dump an above average+ QB. Especially one that just played with minimal weapons, but helped bring his this team to being minutes away from the Super Bowl.
Overrated, $150million dollar man Kirk Coursins would help upgrade this team for 1 season. We'd then have to start ripping this roster apart due to our salary cap going to hell. Could we afford Cousins right now? Sure. But use your damn head and think just a little bit into the future...
Ramsey is going to be the highest paid CB in 2 years. Yannick Ngakoue is going to be a highly paid Pass Rusher in 2 years. If Ngakoue has another season next year like this season, or only continues to improve in his 3rd year, he's going to break the bank just like Ramsey. Myles Jack is in that same class and he's going to need to be paid also. Nothing like those two will be, but he isn't going to get peanuts.
Then to add onto that, we can only hope Allen Robinson will take a team friendly deal right now to stay here, but if he hits the market hes gone. You waste all that money on Cousins and you have to lock up Robinson right now, because you simply wont be able to in 1-2 years.
Then you have to let Fowler walk for sure and you have to cut the big guys on the DL. Campbell, Malik, Dareus etc etc etc. it goes on and on throughout the entire team. It's a never ending cycle and you see it all over the league 1-2 years after a team breaks the bank on a QB.
Paying Cousins that kind of money is only going to hurt this team in the long run. Maybe we get 1 year where the full band is together, but that's about it. The best thing we could hope for at that point is to try and trade away our really good players in their final year, because we wont be able to pay them. Problem is, I'd rather us keep our good home grown talent, instead of giving them away because we ungodly overpaid for an overrated QB.
(02-01-2018, 07:53 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]...
Ramsey is going to be the highest paid CB in 2 years. Yannick Ngakoue is going to be a highly paid Pass Rusher in 2 years. If Ngakoue has another season next year like this season, or only continues to improve in his 3rd year, he's going to break the bank just like Ramsey. Myles Jack is in that same class and he's going to need to be paid also. Nothing like those two will be, but he isn't going to get peanuts.
Then to add onto that, we can only hope Allen Robinson will take a team friendly deal right now to stay here, but if he hits the market hes gone. You waste of that money on Cousins and you have to lock up Robinson right now, because you simply wont be able to in 1-2 years.
Then you have to let Fowler walk for sure and you have to cut the big guys on the DL. Campbell, Malik, Dareus etc etc etc. it goes on and on throughout the entire team. It's a never ending cycle and you see it all over the league 1-2 years after a team breaks the bank on a QB.
Paying Cousins that kind of money is only going to hurt this team in the long run...
While I don't have quite as high of an opinion on Blake as you do, I feel largely the same way regarding our options.
I really hope they draft a QB before the third round though. I do think this team can "win now" with Bortles despite his issues if they get A-Rob back, add some better run blockers to the line, and get an upgraded receiving threat at TE.
I just don't want to see complacency at the QB position as it's still a gamble moving forward with Bortles. If Bortles takes the next step and we are starting the twos in week seventeen, they can showcase the rookie for tradebait.
Not much to lose and much to gain by drafting the next QB instead of overpaying one.
Average QBs win Super Bowls with good defenses. See Peyton Manning with Denver, Dilfer, And Flacco. The key always comes back to defense. Brady and New England have had a top scoring defense in each of their 5 super bowl seasons. All had defenses that held opponents under 20 points per game. 3 of the 5 teams had a scoring defense ranked either #1 or #2 in the NFL. It is no accident that they have had the success they have. A top defense is the cornerstone of being successful in the NFL. It’s not a coincidence that all 4 teams in the conference championship games had top 5 scoring defenses this season and 3 were starting “average” quarterbacks. Committing 150 million to Cousins if it means we have to make sacrifices on defense would not be wise.
(02-01-2018, 08:01 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2018, 07:53 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]...
Ramsey is going to be the highest paid CB in 2 years. Yannick Ngakoue is going to be a highly paid Pass Rusher in 2 years. If Ngakoue has another season next year like this season, or only continues to improve in his 3rd year, he's going to break the bank just like Ramsey. Myles Jack is in that same class and he's going to need to be paid also. Nothing like those two will be, but he isn't going to get peanuts.
Then to add onto that, we can only hope Allen Robinson will take a team friendly deal right now to stay here, but if he hits the market hes gone. You waste of that money on Cousins and you have to lock up Robinson right now, because you simply wont be able to in 1-2 years.
Then you have to let Fowler walk for sure and you have to cut the big guys on the DL. Campbell, Malik, Dareus etc etc etc. it goes on and on throughout the entire team. It's a never ending cycle and you see it all over the league 1-2 years after a team breaks the bank on a QB.
Paying Cousins that kind of money is only going to hurt this team in the long run...
While I don't have quite as high of an opinion on Blake as you do, I feel largely the same way regarding our options.
I really hope they draft a QB before the third round though. I do think this team can "win now" with Bortles despite his issues if they get A-Rob back, add some better run blockers to the line, and get an upgraded receiving threat at TE.
I just don't want to see complacency at the QB position as it's still a gamble moving forward with Bortles. If Bortles takes the next step and we are starting the twos in week seventeen, they can showcase the rookie for tradebait.
Not much to lose and much to gain by drafting the next QB instead of overpaying one.
I was a fan of drafting a QB somewhere in the 2nd-4th rounds early on in this season and I'm still a fan of it. I mean heck, if somebody happens to fall into the late 1st that the team flat out loves and believes in, take em.
Don't get me wrong, I've said that Bortles can be upgraded, but you simply don't run off a QB when you have nothing behind him. Cousins isn't that much better to be worth that kind of money he'll get and it's not even 100% he'd come here anyways.
(02-01-2018, 07:53 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Overrated, $150million dollar man Kirk Coursins would help upgrade this team for 1 season. We'd then have to start ripping this roster apart due to our salary cap going to hell. Could we afford Cousins right now? Sure. But use your damn head and think just a little bit into the future...
~10 million dollars will be the difference between Cousins and Blake this year. That isn't tearing apart anything, it's less than one good player. And if Blake does what you expect him to do he'll be demanding 150 million dollars next year, while risking a valuable year of window if Blake doesn't take another step forward.
If Blake does do enough to demand a 150 million dollar contract are you going to be making the same argument that we shouldn't sign him because it will rip the team apart? Of course that's a rhetorical question I already know the answer.
Lol some people still think they would have to blow up the roster for Cousins?
Just do a little math guys. It’s really not that hard.
(02-01-2018, 08:15 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2018, 07:53 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ]Overrated, $150million dollar man Kirk Coursins would help upgrade this team for 1 season. We'd then have to start ripping this roster apart due to our salary cap going to hell. Could we afford Cousins right now? Sure. But use your damn head and think just a little bit into the future...
~10 million dollars will be the difference between Cousins and Blake this year. That isn't tearing apart anything, it's less than one good player. And if Blake does what you expect him to do he'll be demanding 150 million dollars next year, while risking a valuable year of window if Blake doesn't take another step forward.
If Blake does do enough to demand a 150 million dollar contract are you going to be making the same argument that we shouldn't sign him because it will rip the team apart? Of course that's a rhetorical question I already know the answer.
Even if we have a season next year like this one, why would Bortles command $150m? Everybody already believes he's garbage right? And hes being carried by this Defense right? So if that's the case, nobody is going to even think about paying him that kind of money right?
And in either case, that's the exact reason why I've been a fan of them giving Bortles a 3-4 year extension at around $17-20m right now. That $10-13m is enough for at least one player each year, or they can keep rolling it over to put it towards Ramsey and/or Ngakoue etc. and it'd be an easy contract to get out of in 2 years if he flops.
These are the options the team has at the QB position going forward
1. Keep Bortles and draft a QB.
a. Bortles has reached his peak and either regresses or stays the same next year. So we have to sign him to a deal likely worth 21-24m a year. With no viable QBs in free agency he will have all the leverage and I can't imagine he will actually take a paycut than the $19 he will make next year. So you will have to be make the same roster decisions in 2020 that you would have to take if you sign Cousins this year.
b. Bortles is terrible. With a terrible QB FA class, they are forced to bring him back or pray the QB that they have drafted is able to take the reigns next year. Eh.
2. Cut Bortles and sign Cousins
For two years, the only meaningful player that needs to be cut is Allen Hurns. So for two years we get a quarterback who can make all the throws and this elite defense. There will be roster decisions going into the 2020 offseason, but with the rising salary cap and three drafts, it should play itself out where keeping Yannick, Ramsey, and Jack will be no problem. A combo of Church, Gipson, Dareus, Campbell, and Malik may have to be cut, but while the defense may suffer a little, we will actually have a quarterback who can go out an win games with his arm.
There is a lot of risk in the first option, and with this defense, the time to go for it all is now. We have a lot of really, really good talent on rookie contracts for the next few years. That won't always be the case. Can't wait for a QB that we draft to hopefully develop or that Blake all of a sudden can lead this team with his arm and not rely on the defense. His numbers in the fourth quarter with the game within a touchdown speak for themselves. He can't go out there and put the ball in tight windows. I keep seeing Flacco, Dilfer, and Manning listed. Flacco may have had a pedestrian career, but he went all Brady that postseason and was the reason they won. Dilfer and Manning are exceptions to the rule.
(02-01-2018, 09:19 PM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ]These are the options the team has at the QB position going forward
1. Keep Bortles and draft a QB.
a. Bortles has reached his peak and either regresses or stays the same next year. So we have to sign him to a deal likely worth 21-24m a year. With no viable QBs in free agency he will have all the leverage and I can't imagine he will actually take a paycut than the $19 he will make next year. So you will have to be make the same roster decisions in 2020 that you would have to take if you sign Cousins this year.
b. Bortles is terrible. With a terrible QB FA class, they are forced to bring him back or pray the QB that they have drafted is able to take the reigns next year. Eh.
2. Cut Bortles and sign Cousins
For two years, the only meaningful player that needs to be cut is Allen Hurns. So for two years we get a quarterback who can make all the throws and this elite defense. There will be roster decisions going into the 2020 offseason, but with the rising salary cap and three drafts, it should play itself out where keeping Yannick, Ramsey, and Jack will be no problem. A combo of Church, Gipson, Dareus, Campbell, and Malik may have to be cut, but while the defense may suffer a little, we will actually have a quarterback who can go out an win games with his arm.
There is a lot of risk in the first option, and with this defense, the time to go for it all is now. We have a lot of really, really good talent on rookie contracts for the next few years. That won't always be the case. Can't wait for a QB that we draft to hopefully develop or that Blake all of a sudden can lead this team with his arm and not rely on the defense. His numbers in the fourth quarter with the game within a touchdown speak for themselves. He can't go out there and put the ball in tight windows. I keep seeing Flacco, Dilfer, and Manning listed. Flacco may have had a pedestrian career, but he went all Brady that postseason and was the reason they won. Dilfer and Manning are exceptions to the rule.
How convenient that you left out the option of Bortles continuing to improve and he takes another step next year.
This whole swing for the fences mentality is gonna destroy this team. We got here in the first place by thinking of the future. Let’s not ruin it by trying to swing for it all in a 2 maximum window with a guy who hasn’t even won a playoff game. If this was Brees then I’m all for it but not Cousins. Unless the deal is team friendly, which it’s wont be then Im out. This is a moot point anyway. Bortles and a rookie will be the qbs here
(02-01-2018, 09:30 PM)Eric1 Wrote: [ -> ] (02-01-2018, 09:19 PM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ]These are the options the team has at the QB position going forward
1. Keep Bortles and draft a QB.
a. Bortles has reached his peak and either regresses or stays the same next year. So we have to sign him to a deal likely worth 21-24m a year. With no viable QBs in free agency he will have all the leverage and I can't imagine he will actually take a paycut than the $19 he will make next year. So you will have to be make the same roster decisions in 2020 that you would have to take if you sign Cousins this year.
b. Bortles is terrible. With a terrible QB FA class, they are forced to bring him back or pray the QB that they have drafted is able to take the reigns next year. Eh.
2. Cut Bortles and sign Cousins
For two years, the only meaningful player that needs to be cut is Allen Hurns. So for two years we get a quarterback who can make all the throws and this elite defense. There will be roster decisions going into the 2020 offseason, but with the rising salary cap and three drafts, it should play itself out where keeping Yannick, Ramsey, and Jack will be no problem. A combo of Church, Gipson, Dareus, Campbell, and Malik may have to be cut, but while the defense may suffer a little, we will actually have a quarterback who can go out an win games with his arm.
There is a lot of risk in the first option, and with this defense, the time to go for it all is now. We have a lot of really, really good talent on rookie contracts for the next few years. That won't always be the case. Can't wait for a QB that we draft to hopefully develop or that Blake all of a sudden can lead this team with his arm and not rely on the defense. His numbers in the fourth quarter with the game within a touchdown speak for themselves. He can't go out there and put the ball in tight windows. I keep seeing Flacco, Dilfer, and Manning listed. Flacco may have had a pedestrian career, but he went all Brady that postseason and was the reason they won. Dilfer and Manning are exceptions to the rule.
How convenient that you left out the option of Bortles continuing to improve and he takes another step next year.
We all know we're just
Derrick Harvey Kirk Cousins and his $150 million contract away from a dynasty,
(02-01-2018, 10:32 PM)Etdavis2006 Wrote: [ -> ]This whole swing for the fences mentality is gonna destroy this team. We got here in the first place by thinking of the future. Let’s not ruin it by trying to swing for it all in a 2 maximum window with a guy who hasn’t even won a playoff game. If this was Brees then I’m all for it but not Cousins. Unless the deal is team friendly, which it’s wont be then I. This is a moot point anyway. Bortles a a rookie will be the qbs here
It really is incredible just how much stock people are trying to put into Cousins..
Cousins' starting record isn't even good. He's 26-30-1 and 0-1 in the playoffs. He isn't even a .500% winning QB and people honestly want to give up the entire farm for him? It's hilarious.
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