(03-13-2018, 06:38 AM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/...96609?s=20
woohoo
Yesssssssss, that's why we didn't sign ARob. Thus guy was the best run blocker in football, an All Pro, not coming off and injury. Win FA again
I take this over the ARob signing all day every day. Our o-line has needed so much help for so long at the guard/center (really whichever spot Linder wasn't playing). We are going maul people this year!
(03-13-2018, 01:32 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ] (03-13-2018, 12:12 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]That stat does not paint an accurate picture of the Jags' run game in 2017.
Given Fournette's style of play, a road-grading guard could have significant impact on this offense.
"Jacksonville’s offensive line had a lot of success in run-blocking as the 1.95 yards Jaguars running backs averaged before contact ranked second in the NFL last season."
I dunno man, PFF has us graded even higher than NGS did. I think we were actually just a good run blocking team. I think Fournette's low YPC was more his doing as the olines. Yeldon and Grant had no problem racking up a whopping 5.5 YPC combined.
Just watch the damn games and quit pulling stats out of a hat. It's really obvious once you do that.
I was clear that Fournette's style of running is part of the equation, but we all know he'll be much more of a threat with more frequent and bigger gaps to hit. Now that they've invested a #4 pick in the guy - it'd be wise to give him some more room to do his thing. That's what I see going on here.
I realize that a back with better improvisation and lateral agility might've gotten more done behind last season's line. It's why I advised against taking him so early. But now that he's here and has shown the home run potential, I don't see the problem in giving him what he needs.
It helps him, it helps the other backs, and it helps Blake. It's a pricey double-down, but it's a good bet IMO.
edit:
Fournette topped 1,000 yards in his rookie season, but only averaged 3.9 yards per carry. While his 2.5 yards after contact per attempt wasn’t an elite number, Fournette was at least able to create yards independent of his blocking. However, his line only managed 1.4 yards before contact on his attempts. That’s below the league average of 1.47.
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/fa...te-bortles
(03-13-2018, 12:12 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-13-2018, 12:05 PM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]I would agree if our oline wasn't already fine, but I think it was. We were 10th in yards created before contact in the run game and also 10th in pressures allowed per dropback or something like that (it was an NGS stat I forget exactly what it was but we were good). If our top 5 pick RB can't excel behind an already above average line...
I just think we're going to see some diminishing returns with Norwell. Going from above average to good at oline isn't going to be the same from going from below average to good at QB or receiving corps. But like I said it's fine Norwell will obviously help.
That stat does not paint an accurate picture of the Jags' run game in 2017.
Given Fournette's style of play, a road-grading guard could have significant impact on this offense.
Totally.
When you look at the AFCC, fans are quick to blame the play calling. But I disagree. 4Net in the first half was looking to break out and should have taken over the second half. The play calling was meant to keep it up, but the Pats were able to clamp down and close up the holes. With Norwell, those holes would still be opening up and nobody would be saying anything about the playcalling as the Jaguars probably whoop on the Pats the second half.
We did have a very good run blocking line last year. Despite what PFF says in their grades. We had one of the highest %s of positive runs, good enough yards before contact and ran for more yards than anyone.
We played better than the sum of our parts too. Cann was terrible and while Omameh was serviceable he was quite inconsistent and allowed a lot penetration. Both can and should be upgraded. Norwell achieves that and makes us much better.
Important to remember that YPC is a wildly overated stat to determine how good a run game is. High volume power attacks such as ours will always have slightly lower YPC due to the nature of our game.
Fournette can definitely improve vision wise and when healthy he looks much more dynamic and agile.
(03-13-2018, 12:45 PM)PF* Wrote: [ -> ]Walterfootball (I know, I know) gave the Norwell signing an A- grade called it a "great move". Considering how much they hate DC and the Jaguars, that's interesting.
FWIW, they gave the Watkins signing a C grade and the Allen Robinson deal a C+ grade.
When combining all around effectiveness, age, durability, reliability, and contract terms, the ' A-' grade for the Jaguars signing Andrew Norwell is my assessment as well. Especially, in the context of the Jaguars team brass mindset/ objectives. The emphasis on being able to run the ball and put the Defense in favorable positions ( being fresh, playing with leads ) helps make Norwell a great matchup for the Jaguars.
(03-13-2018, 12:33 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-13-2018, 08:11 AM)Go Jagwaas Derp Wrote: [ -> ]This may be the last year for Dareus, Jackson,and/or Campbell. If a player develops to replace them, that could create more cap space. Jalen and Yannick are going to be expensive
Jackson may be our most overrated defensive starter. He needs to play hard to keep earning his paycheck.
This is totally off base. Jackson was probably our most consistent rusher last year. Go compare Jackson's numbers to a guys like Suh, Richardson, and Fletcher Cox and get back to me.
(03-13-2018, 12:37 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]http://bleacherreport.com/articles/27553...017-season
I'll take the 2nd best Guard in the league. Heck, they say you always overpay in free agency because you usually don't get a shot at one of the actual best at a position. In this case, the Jaguars are paying market value for Norwell because he is elite.
I like this quote from Farrarr...
Quote:Norwell can power-block just fine, but it's his technique that shows up on tape from snap to snap. Watch how he uses body control to recover even when he gets beaten back. Watch how he effortlessly hands off one defender and takes on another against advanced line games. Watch his careful footwork when he's pulling to the other side of the line.
Aside from the pulling, this reminds me of Tony Boselli.
(03-13-2018, 02:09 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ] (03-13-2018, 12:33 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]Jackson may be our most overrated defensive starter. He needs to play hard to keep earning his paycheck.
This is totally off base. Jackson was probably our most consistent rusher last year. Go compare Jackson's numbers to a guys like Suh, Richardson, and Fletcher Cox and get back to me.
Ok... but who would you name as our most overrated defensive starter? It's not an easy question.
I like this move waaaaaaaay better than signing ARob. I look for us to add a RG in that 3rd to 4th round area of the draft and a swing Tackle late. Norwell is gonna be a huge addition though. There's no doubt, we're gonna be running the ball a lot this year. I hope Fournette can stay healthy.
Robinson-Norwell-Linder-Rookie- Parnell
Looking good.
(03-13-2018, 02:13 PM)TheO-LineMatters Wrote: [ -> ]I like this move waaaaaaaay better than signing ARob. I look for us to add a RG in that 3rd to 4th round area of the draft and a swing Tackle late. Norwell is gonna be a huge addition though. There's no doubt, we're gonna be running the ball a lot this year. I hope Fournette can stay healthy.
Robinson-Norwell-Linder-Rookie- Parnell
Looking good.
I agree with you that this is a better investment for the Jaguars compared to Allen Robinson.
Andrew Norwell has been durable. ARob is coming off a torn ACL.
The Jaguars running game is what the team brass believes is the engine of the Jags Offense and puts the elite level Defense in the best realistic position to have the most success/ effectiveness.
There will be opportunities for the Jaguars to build on their WR corp. It might not happen in free agency in a substantial manner. A trade wouldn't be surprising on this end.
(03-13-2018, 02:11 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
(03-13-2018, 02:09 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]This is totally off base. Jackson was probably our most consistent rusher last year. Go compare Jackson's numbers to a guys like Suh, Richardson, and Fletcher Cox and get back to me.
Ok... but who would you name as our most overrated defensive starter? It's not an easy question.
The vast majority of the Jags defensive starters are underrated. Not overrated.
I'm not sure any of them are overrated. Maybe AJ Bouye is overrated a bit by non-Jags-fans that see all of the numbers in the memes and tweets - but didn't see him get picked on in a few games last year. But even that is a stretch. He had a hell of a season.
They are all very good players. A few of them had more lapses in their consistent play than others but I don't see any of them being overrated by posters here, sites elsewhere, and certainly not by the talking heads on TV.
(03-13-2018, 02:03 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-13-2018, 12:12 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]That stat does not paint an accurate picture of the Jags' run game in 2017.
Given Fournette's style of play, a road-grading guard could have significant impact on this offense.
Totally.
When you look at the AFCC, fans are quick to blame the play calling. But I disagree. 4Net in the first half was looking to break out and should have taken over the second half. The play calling was meant to keep it up, but the Pats were able to clamp down and close up the holes. With Norwell, those holes would still be opening up and nobody would be saying anything about the playcalling as the Jaguars probably whoop on the Pats the second half.
I disagree. NYC already went into in detail. They were running out of completely different sets. If they went 2-back in the second half, it certainly wasn't very often.
(03-13-2018, 02:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (03-13-2018, 02:11 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]
Ok... but who would you name as our most overrated defensive starter? It's not an easy question.
The vast majority of the Jags defensive starters are underrated. Not overrated.
I'm not sure any of them are overrated. Maybe AJ Bouye is overrated a bit by non-Jags-fans that see all of the numbers in the memes and tweets - but didn't see him get picked on in a few games last year. But even that is a stretch. He had a hell of a season.
They are all very good players. A few of them had more lapses in their consistent play than others but I don't see any of them being overrated by posters here, sites elsewhere, and certainly not by the talking heads on TV.
You're avoiding the question, so let me ask it a different way...
Who would rank as the least underrated? ...or is Bouye your answer?
(03-13-2018, 02:35 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-13-2018, 02:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The vast majority of the Jags defensive starters are underrated. Not overrated.
I'm not sure any of them are overrated. Maybe AJ Bouye is overrated a bit by non-Jags-fans that see all of the numbers in the memes and tweets - but didn't see him get picked on in a few games last year. But even that is a stretch. He had a hell of a season.
They are all very good players. A few of them had more lapses in their consistent play than others but I don't see any of them being overrated by posters here, sites elsewhere, and certainly not by the talking heads on TV.
You're avoiding the question, so let me ask it a different way...
Who would rank as the least underrated?
Why does someone have to be overrated or underrated?
I think our defense is pretty appropriately rated. Most understand that our safeties are the weakest link compared to the corners, linebackers and Dline. I still like our safeties but they're the weakest.
I'm pleased. If it's a straight choice of Norwell or Robinson (and the contracts are pretty close) I would choose the All Pro guard coming off his best season over the WR coming off a lost ACL year and questionable form before that. Ultimately it is quite a conservative decision, we have gone for the guaranteed improvement rather than the boom or bust option. Don't get me wrong, I think Robinson is very talented and has a chance at a very good career (less so now he's at the Bears), but I understand the reasoning and we have definitely improved this offense with this move.
(03-13-2018, 02:39 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (03-13-2018, 02:35 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ]You're avoiding the question, so let me ask it a different way...
Who would rank as the least underrated?
Why does someone have to be overrated or underrated?
I think our defense is pretty appropriately rated. Most understand that our safeties are the weakest link compared to the corners, linebackers and Dline. I still like our safeties but they're the weakest.
Our Safeties are considerably underrated though. When we first got Church is was thought he was just ok coming from a bad Cowboys defense, but he's been playing lights out and hitting hard well above my expectations. Gipson is almost looked down on in the media as an afterthought, but Marrone has explained that he's one of the best absolutely shutting down his defenders. I thought Jackson because he's thought of everywhere as being an elite DT, and I personally didn't notice him all that much. But my bad... I didn't double check his fantastic stats.
(03-13-2018, 02:35 PM)Jags02 Wrote: [ -> ] (03-13-2018, 02:29 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]The vast majority of the Jags defensive starters are underrated. Not overrated.
I'm not sure any of them are overrated. Maybe AJ Bouye is overrated a bit by non-Jags-fans that see all of the numbers in the memes and tweets - but didn't see him get picked on in a few games last year. But even that is a stretch. He had a hell of a season.
They are all very good players. A few of them had more lapses in their consistent play than others but I don't see any of them being overrated by posters here, sites elsewhere, and certainly not by the talking heads on TV.
You're avoiding the question, so let me ask it a different way...
Who would rank as the least underrated? ...or is Bouye your answer?
I just don't see it happening anywhere. The Jags had an incredible defense with no real weak links in 2017. I see people generally assessing them fairly everywhere I look. (unless it's hate from rival fans or clearly biased "reporters")
I notice Jack gets underrated on this board occasionally. I notice Bouye gets a little overrated by those that are just going off of the numbers and haven't watched him play.
That's it. Neither of them are truly overrated or underrated as far as I can tell. Just a few folks here and there.
SO now we need to focus on TE, deep threat WR, back up QB.
I think Fournette hit the rookie wall late last year. Injuries also became a factor as well. I watched every single Jaguar game last year and it was a clear day to night transition from before his first injury and then after.
In the first few games fournette was pushing piles and looked like a man amoung boys. Post injury that pop never came back.
Then the oline did him no favors. It was common place to see a defender in the backfield on running plays. I expect next year to be a much improve run game. I also expect to see more of grant.
Did people not watch the games? You can't tell me that you didn't see defensive linemen hitting the rb at or behind the LOS commonly last year. This team ran the ball much more than any other team but it was common to pick up 1 or 2 yards on first down.