Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(06-12-2018, 03:13 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]I'm just glad after decades of constant threats and negativity there have been steps taken in a positive direction.

^^^ Agree !!

Some people should perhaps look to history, specifically the collapse of the USSR and the fall of the Berlin Wall.  Then President Ronald Reagan met with Mikhail Gorbachev several times in order to accomplish part of this.  It may not be exactly the same thing that is happening today, but there are many similarities.  My hope is that dialog with NK may someday lead to the removal of the DMZ and lead to the eventual fall of communism in NK.

(06-12-2018, 07:06 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Some people should perhaps look to history, specifically the collapse of the USSR and the fall of the Berlin Wall.  Then President Ronald Reagan met with Mikhail Gorbachev several times in order to accomplish part of this.  It may not be exactly the same thing that is happening today, but there are many similarities.  My hope is that dialog with NK may someday lead to the removal of the DMZ and lead to the eventual fall of communism in NK.

I hope so too. I really do. I keep thinking of the USSR as well. There are many similarities. I am hoping that Kim sees that China has only succeeded by not being like the USSR. If American companies are allowed to invest, even if it remains the communist autocracy, it will be a substantially better place to live for the people there.

(06-12-2018, 03:09 PM)pirkster Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-11-2018, 09:48 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]So amazing watching history be made.

Some lied and said this wasn't going to happen.

Now, some are still in denial that it is happening.

It's a great time to be alive for those living in reality.

How is saying something won't happen a lie, and who said it?

What I find amazing is all the Never Trumpers criticizing the deal, as if the US gave away the farm. All Trump agreed to was an end to (probably needless) joint military exercises with South Korea, and they could resume very quickly if the Norks reneged on their promise to eliminate nuclear weapons. 

It's not like he sent a barge full of money to North Korea which was used to help prop up the regime like Clinton and Bush did, or like Obama did with Iran.

(06-13-2018, 10:38 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]What I find amazing is all the Never Trumpers criticizing the deal, as if the US gave away the farm. All Trump agreed to was an end to (probably needless) joint military exercises with South Korea, and they could resume very quickly if the Norks reneged on their promise to eliminate nuclear weapons. 

It's not like he sent a barge full of money to North Korea which was used to help prop up the regime like Clinton and Bush did, or like Obama did with Iran.

If you want to be really entertained, ask the critics what their ideas are for a nuclear free Korean peninsula. You will hear crickets.

Just a bunch of loud mouth breathers with no ideas.

(06-13-2018, 10:38 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]What I find amazing is all the Never Trumpers criticizing the deal, as if the US gave away the farm. All Trump agreed to was an end to (probably needless) joint military exercises with South Korea, and they could resume very quickly if the Norks reneged on their promise to eliminate nuclear weapons. 

It's not like he sent a barge full of money to North Korea which was used to help prop up the regime like Clinton and Bush did, or like Obama did with Iran.

Military exercises with South Korea are far from needless. They play a vital role in establishing and reinforcing tactical and logistical strategies. Especially when dealing with a language barrier. However, since we conduct these exercises twice a year, the last one concluded not long ago, we still have the option of resuming the next one if NK goes wobbly.

Um.. What deal? We have big concessions and the photo op NK has been cravong for decades. And in return we got the same promise that has been broken a dozen times since the 80s. No oversight. No verification. No testament to current nuclear capabilities. No mention of uranium or plutonium.

What should the American people tout as a success in all of this? We got nothing.

I wish there were a way to convert all this seething jealous anger into some form of usable energy.

I wonder how long Robert DeNiro could power my air conditioner?

(06-14-2018, 08:39 AM)Kotite Wrote: [ -> ]Um..  What deal? We have big concessions and the photo op NK has been cravong for decades. And in return we got the same promise that has been broken a dozen times since the 80s. No oversight. No verification. No testament to current nuclear capabilities. No mention of uranium or plutonium.

What should the American people tout as a success in all of this? We got nothing.

Hey, wait a minute, Kim promised to destroy a testing facility...



...which had already been  destroyed. Well, they showed video of some explosions, which is verifiable proof, amIright?

(06-14-2018, 06:21 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-13-2018, 10:38 PM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ]What I find amazing is all the Never Trumpers criticizing the deal, as if the US gave away the farm. All Trump agreed to was an end to (probably needless) joint military exercises with South Korea, and they could resume very quickly if the Norks reneged on their promise to eliminate nuclear weapons. 

It's not like he sent a barge full of money to North Korea which was used to help prop up the regime like Clinton and Bush did, or like Obama did with Iran.

Military exercises with South Korea are far from needless. They play a vital role in establishing and reinforcing tactical and logistical strategies. Especially when dealing with a language barrier. However, since we conduct these exercises twice a year, the last one concluded not long ago, we still have the option of resuming the next one if NK goes wobbly.

Those exercises are a major source of consternation for NK. Ending them, even temporarily, would be a win for them, and for China and Russia.

The fact a face to face meeting took place is historical in itself! Now we are picking it apart and criticizing? I’m assuming the majority of folks who post here have at least a high school diploma. So, I would also assume that folks can reason and realize neither side gave up anything. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. A piece of paper was signed that stated specific topics to address as they move forward. This is just one step in what is a long process and each one of those topics will be hammered out to the smallest detail.
This will not be like anything of the past. A photo op does not automatically put you on the same level on the world stage (even if Kim feels it does) but if that is what sparks further negotiations, so be it. As far as exercises go, most are conducted electronically through tabletop simulation. The physical ones aren’t going anywhere no matter what Trump says. Mattis and the DoD will make sure he understands this.

(06-14-2018, 09:55 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-14-2018, 06:21 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Military exercises with South Korea are far from needless. They play a vital role in establishing and reinforcing tactical and logistical strategies. Especially when dealing with a language barrier. However, since we conduct these exercises twice a year, the last one concluded not long ago, we still have the option of resuming the next one if NK goes wobbly.

Those exercises are a major source of consternation for NK. Ending them, even temporarily, would be a win for them, and for China and Russia.

Well, hell, let’s throw a win in there for ISIS and Al Qaeda too. 
We suspended the exercises as a show of good will and to give NK room to breathe. We always have the option to continue them. It’s as simple as that.

Sigh..

And the ones who want to see Trump fail (Bill Maher types) come out.

(06-14-2018, 10:37 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-14-2018, 09:55 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Those exercises are a major source of consternation for NK. Ending them, even temporarily, would be a win for them, and for China and Russia.

Well, hell, let’s throw a win in there for ISIS and Al Qaeda too. 
We suspended the exercises as a show of good will and to give NK room to breathe. We always have the option to continue them. It’s as simple as that.

 
Nothing legitimizes a point more than hyperbole. Any lessening of U.S. military presence in the region is a big win for North Korea, China and, yes, Russia, which shares a border with North Korea. 

And for this "small" concession, Kim is shown to the free world on footing with its leader, and China sees yet another opportunity to expand their influence.

So I am clear.. We should be happy a meeting took place. One where NK got major concessions (which China actually wanted too) and we got nothing. This guy talks about how bad the Iran deal was, but this is a good deal for America? How? Future considerations? Please tell me you're joking. NK got the attention and the guise of being a legitimate nation. AND we unilaterally halted military activity without a word being had with the Pentagon or South Korea which has lived in fear of attack for decades. If Obama did this, I would say it sucks and FOX News would be on 24 hour aneurysm watch. We got precisely jack. It's okay to admit that. It's okay to say you hope for more. But it's not okay to act like anything got accomplished that makes us any better off today. We have no oversight. No verification. Just an empty promise from a guy who kills his own people.

(06-14-2018, 10:02 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]The fact a face to face meeting took place is historical in itself! Now we are picking it apart and criticizing? I’m assuming the majority of folks who post here have at least a high school diploma. So, I would also assume that folks can reason and realize neither side gave up anything. Nothing. Zero. Zilch. A piece of paper was signed that stated specific topics to address as they move forward. This is just one step in what is a long process and each one of those topics will be hammered out to the smallest detail.
This will not be like anything of the past. A photo op does not automatically put you on the same level on the world stage (even if Kim feels it does) but if that is what sparks further negotiations, so be it. As far as exercises go, most are conducted electronically through tabletop simulation. The physical ones aren’t going anywhere no matter what Trump says. Mattis and the DoD will make sure he understands this

I'm sure if this was a former president you'd be saying the same things......

(06-14-2018, 11:33 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-14-2018, 10:37 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Well, hell, let’s throw a win in there for ISIS and Al Qaeda too. 
We suspended the exercises as a show of good will and to give NK room to breathe. We always have the option to continue them. It’s as simple as that.

 
Nothing legitimizes a point more than hyperbole. Any lessening of U.S. military presence in the region is a big win for North Korea, China and, yes, Russia, which shares a border with North Korea. 

And for this "small" concession, Kim is shown to the free world on footing with its leader, and China sees yet another opportunity to expand their influence.

You should take your own advice on hyperbole. Our presence is not lessened. We still have all of our troops and weapons there. 

I’m still puzzled as how this is a victory for the Chinese and Russians, but that’s the resistance narrative so I’ll take your word for it.

China wanted the US to halt South Korea war training. That is why it is a win for them.

(06-14-2018, 12:18 PM)Kotite Wrote: [ -> ]China wanted the US to halt South Korea war training. That is why it is a win for them.

Yeah, that makes sense. 
We’ve temporarily suspended military exercises which simulate war against NK so said adversary may more easily engage in potential peace and disarmament talks in order to increase a friendlier rapport with SK and the West. Meaning, less influence by China.