(06-14-2018, 11:43 PM)Kotite Wrote: [ -> ]I see. It's because I don't like Trump that I think this is a huge failure.
It's not because the agreement that was signed provides no tangible way to tell if KJU is holding up his end of the deal.
I promise you if Obama, W, Clinton or Reagan did this same deal, it would suck just the same. If you think this is "winning," you are a clueless fool.
The problem is you actually believe this is a detailed contract with no further negotiations. This agreement was nothing more than a “leader’s pledge.” They are called action items. You know, things that require further action and detailed directives. The fact you are banging the desk over this is nuts.
If it was just framework, why would we sacrifice a single thing today? Especially since it is the exact same action item NK has had since 1985!!! 12 times they have made this same promise, but NOW they really mean it?
Only members of Cult 45 would look at a deal where NK gets something and we get nothing and call it a win.
(06-14-2018, 11:43 PM)Kotite Wrote: [ -> ]I see. It's because I don't like Trump that I think this is a huge failure.
It's not because the agreement that was signed provides no tangible way to tell if KJU is holding up his end of the deal.
I promise you if Obama, W, Clinton or Reagan did this same deal, it would suck just the same. If you think this is "winning," you are a clueless fool.
Yes, that is exactly why you think this way.
(06-15-2018, 07:09 AM)Kotite Wrote: [ -> ]If it was just framework, why would we sacrifice a single thing today? Especially since it is the exact same action item NK has had since 1985!!! 12 times they have made this same promise, but NOW they really mean it?
Only members of Cult 45 would look at a deal where NK gets something and we get nothing and call it a win.
What was sacrificed...camera time? Absolutely nothing but time was given up. How many times did you freak out when exercises on the Korean Peninsula were canceled for the Olympics? Typhoons? Change in SK Presidency? The 100’s of other times because of DMZ flareup? You didn’t because you had no clue and it impacts nothing.
Is not the chance for peace and prosperity on the Korean Peninsula and regionally not receiving something or a “win” as you put it? Were we supposed to receive something tangible like a trophy or medal?
I find it hard to comprehend that you believe diplomacy is a one-time deal and if it ever falls through you just abandon forever. So I guess the only solution is by force? Take the blinders off and perhaps you can see the bigger picture. There is no guarantee for long-term success but at least someone is trying.
I still find it ironic that a man as wildly successful as Trump is - is being questioned by losers who never accomplished anything - the thousands of negotiations that he's presided over and dominated.... the ZERO that any of you have... yet you have the audacity to think you know more.
It's pretty funny.
I can say I know more about pretty much everything than Obama - because he is a genuine sycophantic idiot.
It's funny you can consider a guy who has filed for bankruptcy 4 times in 15 years is considered successful and an economic genius. A guy who has been sued multiple times for not paying bills should be taken at his word on everything. A guy who is being sued for running a false charity and who also ran a complete scam university. A guy who NO US BANK WILL LOAN MONEY TO ANYMORE. He is a complete con. But since you believe him, you shouldn't be swayed by such pesky facts.
But everyone else is the idiot. Ok chotch.
(06-15-2018, 10:37 AM)Kotite Wrote: [ -> ]It's funny you can consider a guy who has filed for bankruptcy 4 times in 15 years is considered successful and an economic genius. A guy who has been sued multiple times for not paying bills should be taken at his word on everything. A guy who is being sued for running a false charity and who also ran a complete scam university. A guy who NO US BANK WILL LOAN MONEY TO ANYMORE. He is a complete con. But since you believe him, you shouldn't be swayed by such pesky facts.
But everyone else is the idiot. Ok chotch.
You're just angry that guy is running circles around what 0bama "accomplished."
Period.
So the 300,000 people involved in the SK / US exercise are still moving forward as planned?
I cringe to ask what you would list as Trump accomplishments.
(06-16-2018, 08:45 AM)Kotite Wrote: [ -> ]So the 300,000 people involved in the SK / US exercise are still moving forward as planned? Is it of little value to SK?
I cringe to ask what you would list as Trump accomplishments.
(06-16-2018, 08:45 AM)Kotite Wrote: [ -> ]So the 300,000 people involved in the SK / US exercise are still moving forward as planned?
I cringe to ask what you would list as Trump accomplishments.
(06-16-2018, 08:45 AM)Kotite Wrote: [ -> ]So the 300,000 people involved in the SK / US exercise are still moving forward as planned? Is it of little value to SK?
I cringe to ask what you would list as Trump accomplishments.
Haha, just stop man. 300,000 is a skewed number. The largest ever exercise involved around 250,000 but 3/4s of that number were Sk logistics coordinators/planners trying to figure out sheltering and movement of civilians. It was an epic fail as the civilians didn’t want to be bothered. The other 20,000 were air and support assets with a few thousand joint amphibious/SF In total only 10,000 or so were US.
The US fluctuates between 35-55,000 personnel in Sk. The ROK forces total just about 700,000 with many being reserves. These exercises while huge media are minor and mean very little to classified U.S. Operational Plans (OPLANS) and execution. NK would suffer overwhelming force the likes of which have never been witnessed and the bulk is fluid, part of Pacific Boomer fleet and/or not from the ROK AOR.
Here are a just few term you can google so you can see what the US does on our own that isn’t media hyped...
BEVERLY BEARCAT exercise
BEVERLY SUNRISE exercise
BEVERLY PACK
Aircraft Elephant Walk
COBRA GOLD
KOA KAI
SENTRY ALOHA
(06-15-2018, 01:01 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ] (06-14-2018, 07:07 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]If you don't see cessation of joint training exercises as a lessening of U.S. presence, I can't help you. It's not just about numbers, it's also about the ability to organize a rapid response. Why do you think NK has protested them so much, and for so long?
If you only understood how off base you really are. FYI, you don’t need to help me or explain anything. I worked for the Command for 10 years. As an exercise and evaluation member I graded many of the exercises. The joint exercises are for show and mainly for the benefit of the ROK forces. We don’t need to exercise anywhere near Nk soil to be effective. We have our own exercises that aren’t heavily broadcasted to the world for obvious reasons.
NK protested because they have a strong hate for the U.S. and well, China tells them to. Neither China nor Russian wants U.S. forces or a western influenced country on their border.
Was this not my point? Even as a symbolic show of force, it is perceived as an affront and threat by NK, and a general threat to China and Russia. That's why telling them they would cease was not a minor concession. Perception is reality.
(06-16-2018, 09:59 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] (06-15-2018, 01:01 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]If you only understood how off base you really are. FYI, you don’t need to help me or explain anything. I worked for the Command for 10 years. As an exercise and evaluation member I graded many of the exercises. The joint exercises are for show and mainly for the benefit of the ROK forces. We don’t need to exercise anywhere near Nk soil to be effective. We have our own exercises that aren’t heavily broadcasted to the world for obvious reasons.
NK protested because they have a strong hate for the U.S. and well, China tells them to. Neither China nor Russian wants U.S. forces or a western influenced country on their border.
Was this not my point? Even as a symbolic show of force, it is perceived as an affront and threat by NK, and a general threat to China and Russia. That's why telling them they would cease was not a minor concession. Perception is reality.
Public perception is not even remotely close to reality. Exercises with Sk have absolutely zero to do with U.S. versus China-Russia military readiness or capability. China and Russia are well aware of our capabilities, so the notion that they would be held in check by a couple thousand troops running around for a few days is a bit off base. Quit believing the media hype.
(06-16-2018, 11:16 AM)MalabarJag Wrote: [ -> ] (06-16-2018, 09:59 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Was this not my point? Even as a symbolic show of force, it is perceived as an affront and threat by NK, and a general threat to China and Russia. That's why telling them they would cease was not a minor concession. Perception is reality.
Thus we have the definition of the rationale of the political Left.
But maybe you can explain why the Left has never admitted a need for military exercises until Trump suspended some. Is the hatred for all things Trump so great that the Left is willing to reverse their position on any issue?
Do you have evidence of this position of the "Left"?
(06-16-2018, 02:44 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ] (06-16-2018, 09:59 AM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ]Was this not my point? Even as a symbolic show of force, it is perceived as an affront and threat by NK, and a general threat to China and Russia. That's why telling them they would cease was not a minor concession. Perception is reality.
Public perception is not even remotely close to reality. Exercises with Sk have absolutely zero to do with U.S. versus China-Russia military readiness or capability. China and Russia are well aware of our capabilities, so the notion that they would be held in check by a couple thousand troops running around for a few days is a bit off base. Quit believing the media hype.
Did I say public perception?
And you tell me my reading comprehension reeks.
Are you completely oblivious to NK's actions historically against the joint exercises?
(06-16-2018, 08:49 PM)rollerjag Wrote: [ -> ] (06-16-2018, 02:44 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]Public perception is not even remotely close to reality. Exercises with Sk have absolutely zero to do with U.S. versus China-Russia military readiness or capability. China and Russia are well aware of our capabilities, so the notion that they would be held in check by a couple thousand troops running around for a few days is a bit off base. Quit believing the media hype.
Did I say public perception?
And you tell me my reading comprehension reeks.
Are you completely oblivious to NK's actions historically against the joint exercises?
I know you like to muddy your responses so you can flip flop but perhaps be clear so nobody has to guess. You don’t have to respond if you’ve got nothing to add outside of your typical “dig” comments. We can have different opions without you being an [BLEEP].
If not public perception than which? Personal, China, Russia? They all register equally on the doesn’t matter scale.
I served for 23 years and attended Air War College as well as numerous Joint Tactical training centers. I also disseminated Presidential and CJCS EAMs. I was STRATCOM certified with a YANKEE WHITE clearance. What would be your qualifications on the matter?
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