One thing that I think is being almost completely overlooked in this judgement of Cody v Blake is the fact that Kessler is essentially still playing his rookie season in the NFL.
People seem to be evaluating him as a finished product, in the way you'd evaluate any true vet QB who ended up starting (such as Henne). But Kessler is 25 years old and has 10 starts in the NFL, this is nowhere near to a finished product. Imagine if Kessler was a highly thought of QB that the Jags had drafted somewhere in the first few rounds a few drafts ago, and he'd sat on the bench learning the ropes until now and just got his chance to start this season. I feel the way people look at him would be very different.
First of all, let's look at his career stats through ten games. 1-9 ain't a good look, but everyone can surely agree that this kid has been handed the roughest of hands in terms of his surrounding offense, both at the putrid browns and now our injury ravaged (and average to start with) Jags. Stats-wise he has a 64.4% completion percentage and 2:1 td/int ratio, while that doesn't scream franchise QB, I think it's actually rather impressive considering the circumstances. And again, if it is viewed as a QB playing his first full season in the NFL it is certainly a good start.
More important than the stats though is how he actually looks on the field. He has been making some beautiful throws, throws that Bortles could never make. Tight spirals on the run with a quick release. He shows power and touch on his passes. He has also shown some weaknesses in pocket presence and general reading of the game. Again, as a young QB playing essentially his first full season, this is to be expected.
What's most important is his ability to actually throw the football, and in that regard he has shown great promise. His weaknesses like pocket presence and reading of the game are things that a young QB can develop with experience, mechanics and technique as a QB are more natural things that you either have or you don't. He does.
I'm not suggesting that Kessler is our franchise QB and we are set for the future, not at all. I absolutely think we should take a QB in the first round next year. But personally I am excited about Kessler's potential as a QB because I see a young player who has the physical tools to succeed and potential to grow as a player. When we evaluate young players like Taven Bryan and DJ Chark we are willing to overlook their struggles this season because we see long-term potential in them, why do we not look at Kessler in the same way?
I'm good with Kessler starting the last games to really give him a shot for whatever future role he may have with the Jags.
like I mentioned in another thread.....may as well strike those games for the hapless browns as that was about what we did to gabbert
and he didn't stand a chance in hell.
So far in my book he's 1-1 with a team while certainly beat up and not running on all cylinders...is not nearly as bad as the team that drafted him.
On the plus side he stayed in college all four years and finished with 851 of 1,261 completions and 10,339 yards. and since he was behind barkley as a freshman he only had 9 yards hhis first year.
The browns took him in the third round.....heck we took BB5 in the first with 585 of 891 and 7,598 in his three years at UCF in the first round!
The only Knock for me is his lack of arm strength. I would really love to finally see a QB that has some range and power, which is why I am still very much hoping we draft Haskins. He is also on the conservative side in terms of his reads and decision making, so I think that prevents him from being an above average QB. If you dont have power and you take little to no risks, that combination prevents you from being anything but a backup caliber QB. Now when we draft a QB next year, Im more than happy for him to be the bridge QB.
(12-09-2018, 09:58 AM)SignMeUpAtQB Wrote: [ -> ]The only Knock for me is his lack of arm strength. I would really love to finally see a QB that has some range and power, which is why I am still very much hoping we draft Haskins. He is also on the conservative side in terms of his reads and decision making, so I think that prevents him from being an above average QB. If you dont have power and you take little to no risks, that combination prevents you from being anything but a backup caliber QB. Now when we draft a QB next year, Im more than happy for him to be the bridge QB.
I'm not sure of this lack of arm strength you're talking about. I saw him zip some good passes, as well as one long downfield pass that Moncrief decided wasn't worthy of stretching for.
(12-09-2018, 10:22 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 09:58 AM)SignMeUpAtQB Wrote: [ -> ]The only Knock for me is his lack of arm strength. I would really love to finally see a QB that has some range and power, which is why I am still very much hoping we draft Haskins. He is also on the conservative side in terms of his reads and decision making, so I think that prevents him from being an above average QB. If you dont have power and you take little to no risks, that combination prevents you from being anything but a backup caliber QB. Now when we draft a QB next year, Im more than happy for him to be the bridge QB.
I'm not sure of this lack of arm strength you're talking about. I saw him zip some good passes, as well as one long downfield pass that Moncrief decided wasn't worthy of stretching for.
According to reports he has heavily worked on his arm strength since he entered the league. From what I've seen it has looked adequate at worst in the last two games.
(12-09-2018, 10:22 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 09:58 AM)SignMeUpAtQB Wrote: [ -> ]The only Knock for me is his lack of arm strength. I would really love to finally see a QB that has some range and power, which is why I am still very much hoping we draft Haskins. He is also on the conservative side in terms of his reads and decision making, so I think that prevents him from being an above average QB. If you dont have power and you take little to no risks, that combination prevents you from being anything but a backup caliber QB. Now when we draft a QB next year, Im more than happy for him to be the bridge QB.
I'm not sure of this lack of arm strength you're talking about. I saw him zip some good passes, as well as one long downfield pass that Moncrief decided wasn't worthy of stretching for.
I think he doesnt trust it then, or his inability to read routes and move in the pocket prevents him from using it. Im not saying he is terrible, but I dont think he has a very strong arm.
Bottom line is he is a game manager with low risk/low reward. If he can gain confidence and take more risks im all for it, but he has never been that type of QB. Idk if that is for lack of skill/strength or just how he understands the game. Wasnt there a chart posted on the board comparing Kessler to Bortles that showed almost no deep throws from Kessler?
(12-09-2018, 10:28 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 10:22 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure of this lack of arm strength you're talking about. I saw him zip some good passes, as well as one long downfield pass that Moncrief decided wasn't worthy of stretching for.
According to reports he has heavily worked on his arm strength since he entered the league. From what I've seen it has looked adequate at worst in the last two games.
Again, I don't recall him having any difficulty delivering the ball during the game. Is there any specific pass you can remember which demonstrated lack of arm strength?
(12-09-2018, 10:41 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 10:28 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]According to reports he has heavily worked on his arm strength since he entered the league. From what I've seen it has looked adequate at worst in the last two games.
Again, I don't recall him having any difficulty delivering the ball during the game. Is there any specific pass you can remember which demonstrated lack of arm strength?
I'm agreeing with you bud.
(12-09-2018, 10:40 AM)SignMeUpAtQB Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 10:22 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure of this lack of arm strength you're talking about. I saw him zip some good passes, as well as one long downfield pass that Moncrief decided wasn't worthy of stretching for.
I think he doesnt trust it then, or his inability to read routes and move in the pocket prevents him from using it. Im not saying he is terrible, but I dont think he has a very strong arm.
Bottom line is he is a game manager with low risk/low reward. If he can gain confidence and take more risks im all for it, but he has never been that type of QB. Idk if that is for lack of skill/strength or just how he understands the game. Wasnt there a chart posted on the board comparing Kessler to Bortles that showed almost no deep throws from Kessler?
Agreed. It's not like he has a huge body of work in which to build upon, either. He started 8 games for another bad team and then rode the pine for a year. He needs time to develop. As others have stated, he'll make a good bridge QB until a solid starter can be found.
(12-09-2018, 10:40 AM)SignMeUpAtQB Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 10:22 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure of this lack of arm strength you're talking about. I saw him zip some good passes, as well as one long downfield pass that Moncrief decided wasn't worthy of stretching for.
I think he doesnt trust it then, or his inability to read routes and move in the pocket prevents him from using it. Im not saying he is terrible, but I dont think he has a very strong arm.
Bottom line is he is a game manager with low risk/low reward. If he can gain confidence and take more risks im all for it, but he has never been that type of QB. Idk if that is for lack of skill/strength or just how he understands the game. Wasnt there a chart posted on the board comparing Kessler to Bortles that showed almost no deep throws from Kessler?
This is pretty much what I'm talking about. "Bottom line" and "never been that type of QB" are not fair things to say about a 25 year old QB with 10 career starts. He is clearly still developing as a player, we shouldn't rush to judge him as a finished product.
(12-09-2018, 10:41 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 10:28 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]According to reports he has heavily worked on his arm strength since he entered the league. From what I've seen it has looked adequate at worst in the last two games.
Again, I don't recall him having any difficulty delivering the ball during the game. Is there any specific pass you can remember which demonstrated lack of arm strength?
Oops. Sorry, I misread that.
He doesn't have a cannon for an arm but it's adequate. The key's are decision making, timing and ball placement. Some of the best QBs in the league have less than overpowering arm strength and vice versa.
Arm strength is the most overrated QB quality.
(12-09-2018, 10:46 AM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2018, 10:40 AM)SignMeUpAtQB Wrote: [ -> ]I think he doesnt trust it then, or his inability to read routes and move in the pocket prevents him from using it. Im not saying he is terrible, but I dont think he has a very strong arm.
Bottom line is he is a game manager with low risk/low reward. If he can gain confidence and take more risks im all for it, but he has never been that type of QB. Idk if that is for lack of skill/strength or just how he understands the game. Wasnt there a chart posted on the board comparing Kessler to Bortles that showed almost no deep throws from Kessler?
Agreed. It's not like he has a huge body of work in which to build upon, either. He started 8 games for another bad team and then rode the pine for a year. He needs time to develop. As others have stated, he'll make a good bridge QB until a solid starter can be found.
Yeah I like him to be our bridge QB next year ahead of a rookie. At beyond-our-wildest-dreams best we could have a Brees-Rivers situation, at worst we get an adequate and, importantly, cheap placeholder to play until the rookie is ready.
(12-09-2018, 08:48 AM)JagJohn Wrote: [ -> ]One thing that I think is being almost completely overlooked in this judgement of Cody v Blake is the fact that Kessler is essentially still playing his rookie season in the NFL.
People seem to be evaluating him as a finished product, in the way you'd evaluate any true vet QB who ended up starting (such as Henne). But Kessler is 25 years old and has 10 starts in the NFL, this is nowhere near to a finished product. Imagine if Kessler was a highly thought of QB that the Jags had drafted somewhere in the first few rounds a few drafts ago, and he'd sat on the bench learning the ropes until now and just got his chance to start this season. I feel the way people look at him would be very different.
First of all, let's look at his career stats through ten games. 1-9 ain't a good look, but everyone can surely agree that this kid has been handed the roughest of hands in terms of his surrounding offense, both at the putrid browns and now our injury ravaged (and average to start with) Jags. Stats-wise he has a 64.4% completion percentage and 2:1 td/int ratio, while that doesn't scream franchise QB, I think it's actually rather impressive considering the circumstances. And again, if it is viewed as a QB playing his first full season in the NFL it is certainly a good start.
More important than the stats though is how he actually looks on the field. He has been making some beautiful throws, throws that Bortles could never make. Tight spirals on the run with a quick release. He shows power and touch on his passes. He has also shown some weaknesses in pocket presence and general reading of the game. Again, as a young QB playing essentially his first full season, this is to be expected.
What's most important is his ability to actually throw the football, and in that regard he has shown great promise. His weaknesses like pocket presence and reading of the game are things that a young QB can develop with experience, mechanics and technique as a QB are more natural things that you either have or you don't. He does.
I'm not suggesting that Kessler is our franchise QB and we are set for the future, not at all. I absolutely think we should take a QB in the first round next year. But personally I am excited about Kessler's potential as a QB because I see a young player who has the physical tools to succeed and potential to grow as a player. When we evaluate young players like Taven Bryan and DJ Chark we are willing to overlook their struggles this season because we see long-term potential in them, why do we not look at Kessler in the same way?
Thank for expressing my observations so eloquently.
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I'm not sure of this lack of arm strength you're talking about. I saw him zip some good passes, as well as one long downfield pass that Moncrief decided wasn't worthy of stretching for.
[/quote]
The commentators noted the lack of effort. Put Allen Robinson under that pass. The passes that really impressed me were two scrambles one to left onto double coverage and one to the right that was a dart. I even yelled out he looked like Brady on that one.
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I like Cody as backup but I'm not so sure you will see much growth to his game at this point. He's pretty limited stylistically
Hard to know how much arm strength is there considering he has about 0.8 seconds to get a throw off. I'd like to see his arm when he has a line that allows him to step up into the pocket and let it fly.
My main desire of a QB is accuracy. Isn't that what he's hired to do? And Kessler's accuracy is miles and miles better than Bortles. I like Blake but we'll never be able to fairly judge any receivers without an accurate thrower.
The only think that will keep me interested for the last three games is seeing how Kessler progresses - under severe circumstances.
(12-09-2018, 01:40 PM)Adam2012 Wrote: [ -> ]Hard to know how much arm strength is there considering he has about 0.8 seconds to get a throw off. I'd like to see his arm when he has a line that allows him to step up into the pocket and let it fly.
My main desire of a QB is accuracy. Isn't that what he's hired to do? And Kessler's accuracy is miles and miles better than Bortles. I like Blake but we'll never be able to fairly judge any receivers without an accurate thrower.
The only think that will keep me interested for the last three games is seeing how Kessler progresses - under severe circumstances.
Yeah, depressingly talent evaluation is all we really have left at this stage.
I do not see a weak arm and see an accurate QB. I have liked what I have seeen in kessler with the line he has been given