Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

I want to comment on this "visit" issue.  I think many fans assume that a visit means that the team is extremely interested in the player.  My understanding is that is not really what drives a visit.  A visit is usually driven when there's a need for information.  For example, a player with an injury question or off the field concerns may get invited to more visits than someone without one.  In the case of Quincy Williams, he didn't participate in the combines.  As such, many teams likely invited him just to gain more information about him.  It doesn't imply that they would have drafted him and it definitely doesn't imply that they would have drafted him in the third round.  Some teams invite potential UDFA's as they feel it gives them an advantage in signing them after the draft.

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I also wanted to comment on the "highlight reels". I learned long ago not to trust them, particularly with defensive players. First, it is called a "highlight" reel for a reason. Do you think it is going to show them sucking? Second, when it comes to defensive players, even very mediocre NFL prospects will usually have a dozen or more hits in their college career. You pull those 12 plays, turn on some "Rocky" music or whatever, and virtually any player suddenly look good.

(04-27-2019, 04:00 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2019, 03:02 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]He was the 98th overall pick.  Ronnie Harrison (who may be our starting strong safety for the next decade) was only 5 picks higher last year.  Do you think Qunicy Williams can even carry Ronnie Harrison's jock strap?  The year before, we got Dede Westbrook (a projected starter) at 110. Smart teams don't draft a special teams player at #98.

Outside QB, no one drafts players to be starters for 10 years any more. The number of players who even play 10 years in the NFL is infinitesimal.

Jags are saying he be a very good special teams players on day 1. Dede didn't play until game 10 and was forced into starting because of injuries 2017. Before that he was a good special teams player. They aren't saying he always only be a special teams player. Harrison only started for a few games and not until week 13. 

Special teams is very important for how this team plays. Jags were 10th worst in punt return yards per attempt. You can't be a defense/field position team if you give up punt return yards.

Quincy played in 1 game (NFLPA 2019) with other prospects and did well enough there that he garnered attention by multiple NFL teams. Did you watch that game? We can barely find some clips on him, how have you graded him already as not being a good player?

Ok, let's look at this way.  If a gun was put to your head and you right now had to cut either Ronnie Harrison, Dede Westbrook or Quincy Williams, who would you choose?  If it takes you more than 2 seconds to say "Quincy Williams", you're too slow.  He's just not in the same range as them.  Not even close.  You don't draft a special teams only guy with a third round pick.

(04-27-2019, 05:04 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2019, 04:00 PM)rpr52121 Wrote: [ -> ]Outside QB, no one drafts players to be starters for 10 years any more. The number of players who even play 10 years in the NFL is infinitesimal.

Jags are saying he be a very good special teams players on day 1. Dede didn't play until game 10 and was forced into starting because of injuries 2017. Before that he was a good special teams player. They aren't saying he always only be a special teams player. Harrison only started for a few games and not until week 13. 

Special teams is very important for how this team plays. Jags were 10th worst in punt return yards per attempt. You can't be a defense/field position team if you give up punt return yards.

Quincy played in 1 game (NFLPA 2019) with other prospects and did well enough there that he garnered attention by multiple NFL teams. Did you watch that game? We can barely find some clips on him, how have you graded him already as not being a good player?

Ok, let's look at this way.  If a gun was put to your head and you right now had to cut either Ronnie Harrison, Dede Westbrook or Quincy Williams, who would you choose?  If it takes you more than 2 seconds to say "Qunicy Williams", you're too slow.  He's just not in the same range as them.  Not even close.  You don't draft a special teams only guy with a third round pick.

Dude the guy hasn’t even been fitted for his uniform yet. Why not wait to see him on the field first before we rush to declare him a bust?

(04-27-2019, 05:08 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2019, 05:04 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, let's look at this way.  If a gun was put to your head and you right now had to cut either Ronnie Harrison, Dede Westbrook or Quincy Williams, who would you choose?  If it takes you more than 2 seconds to say "Qunicy Williams", you're too slow.  He's just not in the same range as them.  Not even close.  You don't draft a special teams only guy with a third round pick.

Dude the guy hasn’t even been fitted for his uniform yet. Why not wait to see him on the field first before we rush to declare him a bust?

Are you new here?

Well, they clearly think very highly about the kid. 3rd round isn't where you take LB depth, it's where you take LB starters. Maybe there is something we don't know about Telvin? I mean if they took him for depth and special teams then it was a complete over draft. He will prob step into the WLB next season when Telvin likely is let go when you consider the contracts of Ngakoue, Jack, and Ramsey coming up. If he just ends up being depth for the team then pretty damn bad pick.

(04-27-2019, 06:16 PM)The_Franchise_QB Wrote: [ -> ]Well, they clearly think very highly about the kid. 3rd round isn't where you take LB depth, it's where you take LB starters. Maybe there is something we don't know about Telvin? I mean if they took him for depth and special teams then it was a complete over draft. He will prob step into the WLB next season when Telvin likely is let go when you consider the contracts of Ngakoue, Jack, and Ramsey coming up. If he just ends up being depth for the team then pretty damn bad pick.

I think that's exactly the plan/what's going to happen. Williams will develop behind Smith at WLB for the season and he'll be an instant special teamer. Then look to replace Smith next season.

There's a $13.4m dead cap hit this season on Smith, compared to only a $5.6m dead cap hit next season. They're going to need all the $$ they can possibly get for Ngakoue, Ramsey and hopefully Jack.

(04-27-2019, 05:08 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2019, 05:04 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, let's look at this way.  If a gun was put to your head and you right now had to cut either Ronnie Harrison, Dede Westbrook or Quincy Williams, who would you choose?  If it takes you more than 2 seconds to say "Qunicy Williams", you're too slow.  He's just not in the same range as them.  Not even close.  You don't draft a special teams only guy with a third round pick.

Dude the guy hasn’t even been fitted for his uniform yet. Why not wait to see him on the field first before we rush to declare him a bust?

Because 100% of the purpose of this board is to give opinions.  If someone is just going to 100% blindly like every Jaguars pick, then their opinion is worthless.  There is no reason for them to even be here.  I call it like I see it.  Could I be wrong?  Yes, but I'm going to say what I think.  Everyone else should give their completely honest opinion, good or bad, as well.

While I think the value was horrible, watching the tape the dude looks very impressive but then again Chris Prosinski also looked like a HOF in his highlights...

(04-28-2019, 12:09 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ]While I think the value was horrible, watching the tape the dude looks very impressive but then again Chris Prosinski also looked like a HOF in his highlights...

Very fair assessment.

I cant wait to dig this thread up in three years!

Thought this was interesting.

Kyle Shanahan brought up Quincy Williams in his press conference without anyone asking him about him specifically. He said he "saw some people were shocked over it but he went exactly where he should have gone , really good player"

Starts at 14:46

https://youtu.be/wlXfb9sTPLw

(04-27-2019, 09:12 AM)dennisp3 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2019, 12:00 AM)Jaguarmeister Wrote: [ -> ]They clearly believed they weren't the only team onto him otherwise they wouldn't have burned a late 3rd on him.  Could they be wrong about that? Sure, but they made a decision with the info they had.  Let the guy take an NFL snap at least before crucifying the FO.  The truth is no one has access to all the teams boards which means you can't possibly know whether or not several teams at the top of the 4th might've been interested in him.

What's amazing is no one knew anything about him and now we have to listen to uninformed want a be GM's tell us why the pick was so bad and how we wasted it on a player they know nothing about. I for one will go with the front office and the scouts that evaluated him putting in many hours deciding his value.
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So much this!!!

It was instantly a bad pick bc YOU don’t know him. 

I’ll trust the professionals. I watched his highlights and from what I saw a guy who lays the wood and has closing speed. He also takes great angles and looks for contact.

He’s not stiff like Jacobs and could play SS or OLB.

(04-28-2019, 02:46 AM)JackCity Wrote: [ -> ]Thought this was interesting.

Kyle Shanahan brought up Quincy Williams in his press conference without anyone asking him about him specifically. He said he "saw some people were shocked over it but he went exactly where he should have gone , really good player"

Starts at 14:46

https://youtu.be/wlXfb9sTPLw

WoW thank you for this video.

You can assume that Lynch and Shanahan wanted Quincy. Lynch seems disappointed when Shanahan was talking about how good Quincy is.

Maybe this guy is a real steal, and some people on this board will eat crow for years...

With the way Caldwell was kicking butt with the first 3 picks, I’ll go with him on this one.

Armstead is my favorite pick yesterday. Obviously Allen is a stud but I think Armstead is going to surprise everyone.

Nice to see and hear other front office GM’s and coaches praising Williams. I’ll trust the experts on this one...

(04-27-2019, 09:58 PM)TheDuke007 Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-27-2019, 05:08 PM)knarnn Wrote: [ -> ]Dude the guy hasn’t even been fitted for his uniform yet. Why not wait to see him on the field first before we rush to declare him a bust?

Because 100% of the purpose of this board is to give opinions.  If someone is just going to 100% blindly like every Jaguars pick, then their opinion is worthless.  There is no reason for them to even be here.  I call it like I see it.  Could I be wrong?  Yes, but I'm going to say what I think.  Everyone else should give their completely honest opinion, good or bad, as well.

How many games have you personally watched  of his?  You keep getting defensive about being able to express your opinion which you are welcome to do, but it seems to me your opinion is entirely based on the fact that the tv talking heads on NFLN didn’t know anything about him and if that’s the case you have a very strong opinion based on nothing.  Break him down for us.  Tell us why he sucks from what you’ve watched of him.  

Of course take highlight reels with a grain of salt.  You think the extensive hours of tape watched of him by the FO and other FO’s around the league was just his highlight reel on a repeating loop while they jostled themselves through their khakis?

I’m not saying he’s the second coming of LT or Ed Reed or whoever depending on where they decide to play him, I’m just saying I’ll make my determination about him and the quality of the pick once I see him play.  I think that’s what pretty much anyone you’re arguing with is saying.

Evaluating players and projecting their development isn’t 100% science, there’s a significant portion that’s art and luck.  Then factor in as GM you are up against 31 other minds going through their own process and you have very little idea what conclusions they are drawing about the same players you are looking at.  You will never know what their boards looked like and basing your apparently very strong opinion off of the tv talking heads who have spent far less time looking at players and have access to far less info seems extremely misguided to me.  Tell us why he sucks and wasn’t worth the pick from your evaluation of his play to date or at least take your foot off the gas with the “bad pick cause the guys I listened to didn’t have any info on him” schtick.

I dont know anything about this guy but wanted to tell you what I think.