I have a ton I'd like to add to this thread, but I wanted to wait a few days before commenting so I could take the proper time to process it all. It seems we've kind of moved passed his tweets at this point. However, I'm not so sure we shouldn't take the time to analyze this from a broader perspective. I also have thoughts to share with Bullseye, but I know what it's like to have to defend my position against multiple posters. Not sure if it's too late to contribute properly to this thread. Everyone might be worn out already.
(07-19-2019, 08:49 AM)Last42min Wrote: [ -> ]I have a ton I'd like to add to this thread, but I wanted to wait a few days before commenting so I could take the proper time to process it all. It seems we've kind of moved passed his tweets at this point. However, I'm not so sure we shouldn't take the time to analyze this from a broader perspective. I also have thoughts to share with Bullseye, but I know what it's like to have to defend my position against multiple posters. Not sure if it's too late to contribute properly to this thread. Everyone might be worn out already.
It's not that I'm worn out. I'm just too lazy to argue with people who seem to have endless reservoirs of energy and are dead certain that they are right and think that if they concede even one small point, the western world will collapse.
Really, there's nothing wrong with just stating your opinion and letting it go, because these arguments are never ending and no one ever wins.
(07-19-2019, 08:42 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]Ummm...
The south seceded because not one Southern state voted for Lincoln and they felt like they weren't involved in the United States.
That's actually in the Lincoln Museum... that's literally what they say.
I'm not sure whom you are responding to, but the reason the Southern states seceded was to defend slavery. If you read the Articles of Secession that were passed by the legislatures of five of the most important southern states, they all say they are seceding to defend slavery.
https://www.battlefields.org/learn/prima...ing-states
For example, Georgia:
"
The people of Georgia having dissolved their political connection with the Government of the United States of America, present to their confederates and the world the causes which have led to the separation. For the last ten years we have had numerous and serious causes of complaint against our non-slave-holding confederate States with reference to the subject of African slavery. They have endeavored to weaken our security, to disturb our domestic peace and tranquility, and persistently refused to comply with their express constitutional obligations to us in reference to that property, and by the use of their power in the Federal Government have striven to deprive us of an equal enjoyment of the common Territories of the Republic."
Mississippi:
"In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course.
"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove."
To everyone going back n forth about the secession and whether that was treasonous or whatever the hell they were being stupid about.
The fact is it boils down to the South feeling left out of the Union because of Lincoln not winning a single county in the South. Just quoting the literal Lincoln Museum
(07-19-2019, 10:23 AM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]To everyone going back n forth about the secession and whether that was treasonous or whatever the hell they were being stupid about.
The fact is it boils down to the South feeling left out of the Union because of Lincoln not winning a single county in the South. Just quoting the literal Lincoln Museum
That becomes a circular argument, though.
Lincoln didn't win anywhere in the South because he openly opposed letting people bring slaves into the territories.
And people correctly suspected that he would do far more to harm slaveholders if he got the chance.
And let's look a little more deeply at how voting worked back then. Some states in the South were so gerrymandered that a handful of plantation owners would get a two representatives in the legislature and all the poor whites would get one. And South Carolina didn't even hold a presidential election. Their legislature appointed electors directly that year.
So most of the "votes" in the South were from white slave holders even though most white people in the South did not own slaves.
Well... we're only roughly 19 days away from preseason football. I hope ALL of you in this thread bring this energy over to the Home Team thread soon. And keep the beer coming!
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/zXubYhkWFc9uE/giphy.gif)
Wish I could share the interview here (A few F-Bombs are dropped I believe). It's an older interview from 2015 with Hip-Hop's great KRS-One. He's speaking very candidly in an interview for about 20 minutes. The title of the interview on YouTube can be found on djvald's channel and it's titled "KRS-One: Real Me Don't Exist in Mainstream Hip-Hop".
It's a DAMN good interview. And I think he has a lot of excellent points about influence, racial tension and politics in our Country. I often find myself complaining to my wife about the impact of social media and music videos with today's age of instant access. It's scary that you'll find millions upon millions of views with various music artists with really explicit content that DOES have a lasting impact and impression on black and white America.
You'll see more views on THAT content (Anywhere between 10M - 100M+ depending on the popularity of the artist or group) compared to content from say a scholar, philosopher, experts in certain fields, etc. Counter Culture is really having a field day with today's youth. But there's a lot of great material out there to be found if you're willing to dig for it and avoid the nonsense.
I judge people on character.
if you're a piece of crap I'm gonna hate you, regardless of your skin color.
I'm just as wary of a white person being behind me as a black person.
People suck. Period.
(07-19-2019, 11:29 AM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]Say it isn't so!
NH3...
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa...story.html
You mean a guy who lost his father in an earily simular situation is racist because he called the cops? Riiiight! The black guy was trespassing and ghosted into the building. Not to mention that particular area has the highest theft rate in the nation.
In time of great strife may we hear and enact the words contained herein. I, for one, would have it no other way.
Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man to depress none. I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand. - N.B. Forrest, Speech to the Pole-Bearers Association. July 5, 1875
(07-19-2019, 12:41 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ] (07-19-2019, 11:29 AM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ]Say it isn't so!
NH3...
https://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa...story.html
You mean a guy who lost his father in an earily simular situation is racist because he called the cops? Riiiight! The black guy was trespassing and ghosted into the building. Not to mention that particular area has the highest theft rate in the nation.
This is Exactly the meaning of profiling. If his father succumbed to any type of violence by any race, then is it warranted for him/her to stereo type that particular race? Riiiight!!! This man Was Not trespassing. He entered the building to visit a friend to which was verified.
You mean just because your loved one lost his/her life to an Caucasian, an Jewish, an Asian, an Russian, an Italian, an African American. That gives family members the right to profile their race(s).
That's being prejudice to say the least regardless of one's lost.
Not to mention the requests of his son to which had more sense than his father.
NH3...
(07-19-2019, 02:13 PM)NH3 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-19-2019, 12:41 PM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]You mean a guy who lost his father in an earily simular situation is racist because he called the cops? Riiiight! The black guy was trespassing and ghosted into the building. Not to mention that particular area has the highest theft rate in the nation.
This is Exactly the meaning of profiling. If his father succumbed to any type of violence by any race, then is it warranted for him/her to stereo type that particular race? Riiiight!!! This man Was Not trespassing. He entered the building to visit a friend to which was verified.
You mean just because your loved one lost his/her life to an Caucasian, an Jewish, an Asian, an Russian, an Italian, an African American. That gives family members the right to profile their race(s).
That's being prejudice to say the least regardless of one's lost.
Not to mention the requests of his son to which had more sense than his father.
NH3...
See what you want, but this is EXACTLY the meaning of trespassing! Check your story. He entered through the door behind this man. He had no building code to get into the foyer. He was not a resident; therefore, he shouldn't have been an [BLEEP] and just provided info to the individual who is a resident and who is trying to be a responsible neighbor in the building for which he lives. Yes, as it turns out, he was visiting a friend that wasn't even home at the time. That friends pull up at the end of the video. Questioning a non-resident of their intentions after pushing past a door does not make him racist. Christ! Would you expect to just walk into someones gated community, apartment, or condo? I've body checked plenty of people who thought they could.
Who cares what the little boy thinks of an adult situation. If anything, it could have made the matter much worse.
(07-19-2019, 01:23 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]In time of great strife may we hear and enact the words contained herein. I, for one, would have it no other way.
Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man to depress none. I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand. - N.B. Forrest, Speech to the Pole-Bearers Association. July 5, 1875
If N.B. Forrest could change so much for the better over the course of his life, there is hope for all of us.
(07-19-2019, 01:23 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]In time of great strife may we hear and enact the words contained herein. I, for one, would have it no other way.
Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man to depress none. I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand. - N.B. Forrest, Speech to the Pole-Bearers Association. July 5, 1875
I appreciate the intent behind the sharing of this expression.
However, the person you chose to quote here is perhaps the WORST person you could have possibly chosen to convey these thoughts, and serves to undermine the very sentiments you wish to convey.
He owned slaves, fought for the Confederacy, massacred blacks at Fort Pillow, and founded the Ku Klux Klan, which has worked to make the lives of blacks and other minorities in this country absolute hell for more than a century. Even in making this "conciliatory" speech, he managed to make the southern man the victim.
Assuming the sentiments expressed here are the legitimate utterings of a penitent man, these words ring hollow in the face of the harm he has done-either prior to his conversion or after. It speaks volumes that the defiant segregationists here renamed the school after Nathan B. Forrest in an act of defiance of the Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education case
May Nathan B. Forrest rot in hell.
(07-19-2019, 03:08 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (07-19-2019, 01:23 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]In time of great strife may we hear and enact the words contained herein. I, for one, would have it no other way.
Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man to depress none. I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand. - N.B. Forrest, Speech to the Pole-Bearers Association. July 5, 1875
I appreciate the intent behind the sharing of this expression.
However, the person you chose to quote here is perhaps the WORST person you could have possibly chosen to convey these thoughts, and serves to undermine the very sentiments you wish to convey.
He owned slaves, fought for the Confederacy, massacred blacks at Fort Pillow, and founded the Ku Klux Klan, which has worked to make the lives of blacks and other minorities in this country absolute hell for more than a century. Even in making this "conciliatory" speech, he managed to make the southern man the victim.
Assuming the sentiments expressed here are the legitimate utterings of a penitent man, these words wring hollow in the face of the harm he has done-either prior to his conversion or after. It speaks volumes that the defiant segregationists here renamed the school after Nathan B. Forrest in an act of defiance of the Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education case
May Nathan B. Forrest rot in hell.
6 of my ancestors fought for the confederacy.
So?
The KKK was originally founded to protect whites from carpet baggers and angry northern soldiers. Yep, that's right. To protect southern whites from northern whites. Weird right? Of course it turned into something awful.. But still pretty weird.
I wish people would ditch feeling like a victim.. it just makes ya weak.
(07-19-2019, 03:33 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ] (07-19-2019, 03:08 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I appreciate the intent behind the sharing of this expression.
However, the person you chose to quote here is perhaps the WORST person you could have possibly chosen to convey these thoughts, and serves to undermine the very sentiments you wish to convey.
He owned slaves, fought for the Confederacy, massacred blacks at Fort Pillow, and founded the Ku Klux Klan, which has worked to make the lives of blacks and other minorities in this country absolute hell for more than a century. Even in making this "conciliatory" speech, he managed to make the southern man the victim.
Assuming the sentiments expressed here are the legitimate utterings of a penitent man, these words wring hollow in the face of the harm he has done-either prior to his conversion or after. It speaks volumes that the defiant segregationists here renamed the school after Nathan B. Forrest in an act of defiance of the Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education case
May Nathan B. Forrest rot in hell.
6 of my ancestors fought for the confederacy.
So?
The KKK was originally founded to protect whites from carpet baggers and angry northern soldiers. Yep, that's right. To protect southern whites from northern whites. Weird right?
Then they, too, betrayed this country and fought to oppress blacks. They too were on the wrong side of history.
They too should rot if they were not repentant and caused a comparable level of harm.
As for the KKK...if their beef was with "carpetbaggers and angry northern soldiers," where did the whole terrorizing of blacks come in?
(07-19-2019, 03:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (07-19-2019, 03:33 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]6 of my ancestors fought for the confederacy.
So?
The KKK was originally founded to protect whites from carpet baggers and angry northern soldiers. Yep, that's right. To protect southern whites from northern whites. Weird right?
Then they, too, betrayed this country and fought to oppress blacks. They too were on the wrong side of history.
They too should rot if they were not repentant and caused a comparable level of harm.
As for the KKK...if their beef was with "carpetbaggers and angry northern soldiers," where did the whole terrorizing of blacks come in?
You're taking this entirely too personal. And that above line is pretty low. If we dug through all of our families history we would all more than likely find things that would make us feel ashamed or disappointed. Pretty [BLEEP] thing to say man....
We all know that slavery is wrong, it's horrible. It leaves everlasting scars physically and mentally. Most of humanity's history is brutal, cold and hard. It's still that same way in parts of the world today. Doesn't matter if it's in Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Europe, North America, Australia and South America. Wrong is wrong. Right is right. But that only applies to that person or persons individual beliefs.
If in every War both sides think they are right then are any of us right? How does this number below make you feel? It still continues today. Nothing has changed there for the better. You think an eye for an eye is correct? Or holding old sins over descendants of darker times is the right way to go? I see a lot of weakness in your lines of thinking.
Ultimately, our Country changed for the better. While it still continues in other parts of the World. And many people, including you, myself and everyone on this thread should really see that as an accomplishment. But you keep on throwing stones at an old headstone.
Prevalence within Africa:
On any given day in 2016, an estimated 9.2 million men, women, and children were living in modern slavery in Africa. The region has the highest rate of prevalence, with 7.6 people living in modern slavery for every 1,000 people in the region.