Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(07-19-2019, 04:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-19-2019, 03:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Then they, too, betrayed this country and fought to oppress blacks.  They too were on the wrong side of history.

They too should rot if they were not repentant and caused a comparable level of harm.

As for the KKK...if their beef was with "carpetbaggers and angry northern soldiers," where did the whole terrorizing of blacks come in?

You're taking this entirely too personal. And that above line is pretty low. If we dug through all of our families history we would all more than likely find things that would make us feel ashamed or disappointed. Pretty [BLEEP] thing to say man....

We all know that slavery is wrong, it's horrible. It leaves everlasting scars physically and mentally. Most of humanity's history is brutal, cold and hard. It's still that same way in parts of the world today. Doesn't matter if it's in Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Europe, North America, Australia and South America. Wrong is wrong. Right is right. But that only applies to that person or persons individual beliefs. 

If in every War both sides think they are right then are any of us right? How does this number below make you feel? It still continues today. Nothing has changed there for the better. You think an eye for an eye is correct? Or holding old sins over descendants of darker times is the right way to go? I see a lot of weakness in your lines of thinking. 

Ultimately, our Country changed for the better. While it still continues in other parts of the World. And many people, including you, myself and everyone on this thread should really see that as an accomplishment. But you keep on throwing stones at an old headstone. 


Prevalence within Africa:

On any given day in 2016, an estimated 9.2 million men, women, and children were living in modern slavery in Africa. The region has the highest rate of prevalence, with 7.6 people living in modern slavery for every 1,000 people in the region.

We are not our ancestors.  Bullseye was not insulting TrivialPursuit. 
TrivialPursuit's ancestors are gone from this world and facing whatever there is for them in the next. None of that indicates anything about TrivialPursuit's own worth.

(07-19-2019, 04:08 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-19-2019, 04:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]You're taking this entirely too personal. And that above line is pretty low. If we dug through all of our families history we would all more than likely find things that would make us feel ashamed or disappointed. Pretty [BLEEP] thing to say man....

We all know that slavery is wrong, it's horrible. It leaves everlasting scars physically and mentally. Most of humanity's history is brutal, cold and hard. It's still that same way in parts of the world today. Doesn't matter if it's in Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Europe, North America, Australia and South America. Wrong is wrong. Right is right. But that only applies to that person or persons individual beliefs. 

If in every War both sides think they are right then are any of us right? How does this number below make you feel? It still continues today. Nothing has changed there for the better. You think an eye for an eye is correct? Or holding old sins over descendants of darker times is the right way to go? I see a lot of weakness in your lines of thinking. 

Ultimately, our Country changed for the better. While it still continues in other parts of the World. And many people, including you, myself and everyone on this thread should really see that as an accomplishment. But you keep on throwing stones at an old headstone. 


Prevalence within Africa:

On any given day in 2016, an estimated 9.2 million men, women, and children were living in modern slavery in Africa. The region has the highest rate of prevalence, with 7.6 people living in modern slavery for every 1,000 people in the region.

We are not our ancestors.  Bullseye was not insulting TrivialPursuit. 
TrivialPursuit's ancestors are gone from this world and facing whatever there is for them in the next. None of that indicates anything about TrivialPursuit's own worth.

Saying one's ancestor's should rot is a low remark to make. Regardless of his views. It's cowardly. And it's a sign of weakness. Man up. We're not our Ancestors. That's true. But we carry their blood in our veins with each passing moment. It's apart of life and evolution. I am tired of seeing this [BLEEP] attitude about this Country. 

When it's literally [BLEEP] just about everywhere else in the known world. When do you stop throwing stones at headstones?

Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.

Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end.
Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Terrified of being wrong. Ultimatum prison cell.

Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled again.
Humbled again.

Clutch it like a cornerstone. Otherwise it all comes down.
Justify denials and grip 'em to the lonesome end.
Saturn ascends, comes round again.
Saturn ascends, the one, the ten. Ignorant to the damage done.

Wear the grudge like a crown of negativity.
Calculate what we will or will not tolerate.
Desperate to control all and everything.
Unable to forgive your scarlet lettermen.

Wear the grudge like a crown. Desperate to control.
Unable to forgive. And sinking deeper.
Defining, confining, sinking deeper.
Controlling, defining, and we're sinking deeper.

Saturn comes back around to show you everything
Let's you choose what you will, will not see and then
Drags you down like a stone or lifts you up again
Spits you out like a child, light and innocent.

Saturn comes back around. Lifts you up like a child
Or drags you down like a stone to
Consume you till you choose to let this go.
Choose to let this go.

Give away the stone. Let the oceans take and
Transmutate this cold and fated anchor.
Give away the stone. Let the waters kiss and
Transmutate these leaden grudges into gold.
Let go.

(07-19-2019, 04:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-19-2019, 03:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Then they, too, betrayed this country and fought to oppress blacks.  They too were on the wrong side of history.

They too should rot if they were not repentant and caused a comparable level of harm.

As for the KKK...if their beef was with "carpetbaggers and angry northern soldiers," where did the whole terrorizing of blacks come in?

1.  You're taking this entirely too personal. And that above line is pretty low. If we dug through all of our families history we would all more than likely find things that would make us feel ashamed or disappointed. Pretty [BLEEP] thing to say man....

2.  We all know that slavery is wrong, it's horrible. It leaves everlasting scars physically and mentally. Most of humanity's history is brutal, cold and hard. It's still that same way in parts of the world today. Doesn't matter if it's in Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Europe, North America, Australia and South America. Wrong is wrong. Right is right. But that only applies to that person or persons individual beliefs. 

3.  If in every War both sides think they are right then are any of us right? How does this number below make you feel? It still continues today. Nothing has changed there for the better. You think an eye for an eye is correct? Or holding old sins over descendants of darker times is the right way to go? I see a lot of weakness in your lines of thinking. 

Ultimately, our Country changed for the better. While it still continues in other parts of the World. And many people, including you, myself and everyone on this thread should really see that as an accomplishment. But you keep on throwing stones at an old headstone. 


4.  Prevalence within Africa:

On any given day in 2016, an estimated 9.2 million men, women, and children were living in modern slavery in Africa. The region has the highest rate of prevalence, with 7.6 people living in modern slavery for every 1,000 people in the region.

(numbering added)

1.  So how would  you feel if someone worked to oppress you or your ancestors?  By your own words in this very post "We all know that slavery is wrong, it's horrible. It leaves everlasting scars physically and mentally."  How personally SHOULD I take such efforts to inflict such suffering based upon my race?  al Qaeda attacked this country on 9/11/2001 and killed 3000 of our countrymen.  It happened 18 years ago, and those responsible are dead, including Bin Laden.  Yet even though most of us did not lose anyone in those attacks, most of us hate al Qaeda and took the attacks personally.  Why?  Under your logic, there should be little to no animosity towards al Qaeda.  Those on the right have asserted the four congresswomen were to leave the country because they expressed anti American sentiment.  Why should those who take up arms against this country be treated any differently?  Just because they are HIS ancestors?!?  What merits their exemption from contempt when they betray fundamental and traditional notions of patriotism and common human decency? 

He introduced his family into the discussion.  He asked the question.  I answered.  What is the problem?

If they somehow had no choice in fighting for the confederacy, perhaps they get a pass.  If they somehow worked to undo the damage they did to blacks and this country after the fact, perhaps they deserve the benefit of the doubt.  Otherwise, either they chose to fight for the confederacy knowing the repugnant ideals upon which it was founded, or they fought for the confederacy completely oblivious to those principles, which means they betrayed the country and common human decency out of ignorance.  Either way, I am not obliged to honor them because he does, especially when they work to weaken this country and oppress people on the basis of race.

2.   Taking this at face value, how did I apply my answer to anyone other than his ancestors who fought for the Confederacy?  I didn't say Trivial Pursuit should rot in hell.  I didn't say ALL of Trivial Pursuit's ancestors should rot in hell.  Just the ones who fought for the confederacy HE introduced to the conversation.  I don't get the point you are making.

3 & 4.  Yes...there is clear right and wrong to be found in many wars.  When the nazis engaged in the ethnic cleansing of Jews, they were spectacularly wrong, no matter how man of their soldiers believed they were right, no matter how many were just following orders.

As to Africa's role in the slave trade, those responsible are equally culpable in my mind.  Much like what happened in World War II when prisoners of war were taken, African lands that traded in slaves during them traded away people who amounted to prisoners of war in many instances.  To the extent they participated or currently participate in such a repugnant enterprise, they are contemptible.  Their actions led to the suffering of millions.  Their status as blacks or non whites does not exempt them from blame.  Similarly, people's status as white does not make them evil.  There were plenty of whites who did not actively work to oppress blacks here, and plenty who died fighting for the rights of people like me, from John Brown, to the Freedom Riders during the Civil Rights movement, to Heather Heyer who was murdered in Charlottesville.  There are those on this very board in this very thread who have spoken out against racism.  Even Flsportsgod, who is on the opposite end of the political spectrum from me expressed good will between the races.  When I said I appreciated the sentiment, I meant that.

But irrespective of anyone's ancestry, I, in no way fell compelled to exempt their actions in serving the confederacy just because of their status as someone's ancestor.

Does that answer your questions?

---

(07-19-2019, 04:08 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-19-2019, 04:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]You're taking this entirely too personal. And that above line is pretty low. If we dug through all of our families history we would all more than likely find things that would make us feel ashamed or disappointed. Pretty [BLEEP] thing to say man....

We all know that slavery is wrong, it's horrible. It leaves everlasting scars physically and mentally. Most of humanity's history is brutal, cold and hard. It's still that same way in parts of the world today. Doesn't matter if it's in Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Europe, North America, Australia and South America. Wrong is wrong. Right is right. But that only applies to that person or persons individual beliefs. 

If in every War both sides think they are right then are any of us right? How does this number below make you feel? It still continues today. Nothing has changed there for the better. You think an eye for an eye is correct? Or holding old sins over descendants of darker times is the right way to go? I see a lot of weakness in your lines of thinking. 

Ultimately, our Country changed for the better. While it still continues in other parts of the World. And many people, including you, myself and everyone on this thread should really see that as an accomplishment. But you keep on throwing stones at an old headstone. 


Prevalence within Africa:

On any given day in 2016, an estimated 9.2 million men, women, and children were living in modern slavery in Africa. The region has the highest rate of prevalence, with 7.6 people living in modern slavery for every 1,000 people in the region.

We are not our ancestors.  Bullseye was not insulting TrivialPursuit. 
TrivialPursuit's ancestors are gone from this world and facing whatever there is for them in the next. None of that indicates anything about TrivialPursuit's own worth.

Thank you.

(07-19-2019, 04:13 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-19-2019, 04:08 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]We are not our ancestors.  Bullseye was not insulting TrivialPursuit. 
TrivialPursuit's ancestors are gone from this world and facing whatever there is for them in the next. None of that indicates anything about TrivialPursuit's own worth.

Saying one's ancestor's should rot is a low remark to make. Regardless of his views. It's cowardly. And it's a sign of weakness. Man up. We're not our Ancestors. That's true. But we carry their blood in our veins with each passing moment. It's apart of life and evolution. I am tired of seeing this [BLEEP] attitude about this Country. 

When it's literally [BLEEP] just about everywhere else in the known world. When do you stop throwing stones at headstones?

So what makes his blood more important than mine?  You can say what you will about my "low blow" but I doubt think my answer to his question will leave "everlasting physical and mental scars" the way his ancestor's actions did to blacks and this country.

(07-19-2019, 04:52 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-19-2019, 04:01 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]1.  You're taking this entirely too personal. And that above line is pretty low. If we dug through all of our families history we would all more than likely find things that would make us feel ashamed or disappointed. Pretty [BLEEP] thing to say man....

2.  We all know that slavery is wrong, it's horrible. It leaves everlasting scars physically and mentally. Most of humanity's history is brutal, cold and hard. It's still that same way in parts of the world today. Doesn't matter if it's in Africa, Antarctica, Asia, Europe, North America, Australia and South America. Wrong is wrong. Right is right. But that only applies to that person or persons individual beliefs. 

3.  If in every War both sides think they are right then are any of us right? How does this number below make you feel? It still continues today. Nothing has changed there for the better. You think an eye for an eye is correct? Or holding old sins over descendants of darker times is the right way to go? I see a lot of weakness in your lines of thinking. 

Ultimately, our Country changed for the better. While it still continues in other parts of the World. And many people, including you, myself and everyone on this thread should really see that as an accomplishment. But you keep on throwing stones at an old headstone. 


4.  Prevalence within Africa:

On any given day in 2016, an estimated 9.2 million men, women, and children were living in modern slavery in Africa. The region has the highest rate of prevalence, with 7.6 people living in modern slavery for every 1,000 people in the region.

(numbering added)

1.  So how would  you feel if someone worked to oppress you or your ancestors?  By your own words in this very post "We all know that slavery is wrong, it's horrible. It leaves everlasting scars physically and mentally."  How personally SHOULD I take such efforts to inflict such suffering based upon my race?  Those on the right have asserted the four congresswomen were to leave the country because they expressed anti American sentiment.  Why should those who take up arms against this country be treated any differently?  Just because they are HIS ancestors?!?  What merits their exemption from contempt when they betray fundamental and traditional notions of patriotism and common human decency? 

He introduced his family into the discussion.  He asked the question.  I answered.  What is the problem?

If they somehow had no choice in fighting for the confederacy, perhaps they get a pass.  If they somehow worked to undo the damage they did to blacks and this country after the fact, perhaps they deserve the benefit of the doubt.  Otherwise, either they chose to fight for the confederacy knowing the repugnant ideals upon which it was founded, or they fought for the confederacy completely oblivious to those principles, which means they betrayed the country and common human decency out of ignorance.  Either way, I am not obliged to honor them because he does, especially when they work to weaken this country and oppress people on the basis of race.

2.   Taking this at face value, how did I apply my answer to anyone other than his ancestors who fought for the Confederacy?  I didn't say Trivial Pursuit should rot in hell.  I didn't say ALL of Trivial Pursuit's ancestors should rot in hell.  Just the ones who fought for the confederacy HE introduced to the conversation.  I don't get the point you are making.

3 & 4.  Yes...there is clear right and wrong to be found in many wars.  When the nazis engaged in the ethnic cleansing of Jews, they were spectacularly wrong, no matter how man of their soldiers believed they were right, no matter how many were just following orders.

As to Africa's role in the slave trade, those responsible are equally culpable in my mind.  Much like what happened in World War II when prisoners of war were taken, African lands that traded in slaves during them traded away people who amounted to prisoners of war in many instances.  To the extent they participated or currently participate in such a repugnant enterprise, they are contemptible.  Their actions led to the suffering of millions.  Their status as blacks or non whites does not exempt them from blame.  Similarly, people's status as white does not make them evil.  There were plenty of whites who did not actively work to oppress blacks here, and plenty who died fighting for the rights of people like me, from John Brown, to the Freedom Riders during the Civil Rights movement, to Heather Heyer who was murdered in Charlottesville.  There are those on this very board in this very thread who have spoken out against racism.  Even Flsportsgod, who is on the opposite end of the political spectrum from me expressed good will between the races.  When I said I appreciated the sentiment, I meant that.

But irrespective of anyone's ancestry, I, in no way fell compelled to exempt their actions in serving the confederacy just because of their status as someone's ancestor.

Does that answer your questions?

---

(07-19-2019, 04:08 PM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]We are not our ancestors.  Bullseye was not insulting TrivialPursuit. 
TrivialPursuit's ancestors are gone from this world and facing whatever there is for them in the next. None of that indicates anything about TrivialPursuit's own worth.

Thank you.

I expect better out of you. Didn't realize you would hold grudges. I am not going to sit here and waste anymore [BLEEP] time in this thread. It's ugly. I have my opinions and you have yours, and you don't have to like mine because I don't like yours. 

All's fair. Have fun throwing stones at old headstones that have no bearing on you at all now. Nothing is holding you back. Only yourself. It's 2019. Not 1779, not 1879, not 1979.

By the way, had you read through this post. You would have known some of my ancestors were actually here in St. Augustine and were in fact, oppressed to cultivate the land. When they ran they were shackled to balls and chains. In fact, some of them were even forced into incest. 

No skin off my teeth. Because it didn't happen to me. My ancestors had to carry that burden and pay the price for that. I am glad they did. Otherwise I wouldn't be here typing this out to you right now. I have learned to let things go. Even when I got jumped by a group of black kids when I was 14 minding my own [BLEEP] business. Even when I got called racial slurs by white kids. 

Man the [BLEEP] up! Let it go. You're better than this. And you know it.

(07-19-2019, 04:58 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-19-2019, 04:13 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]Saying one's ancestor's should rot is a low remark to make. Regardless of his views. It's cowardly. And it's a sign of weakness. Man up. We're not our Ancestors. That's true. But we carry their blood in our veins with each passing moment. It's apart of life and evolution. I am tired of seeing this [BLEEP] attitude about this Country. 

When it's literally [BLEEP] just about everywhere else in the known world. When do you stop throwing stones at headstones?

So what makes his blood more important than mine?  You can say what you will about my "low blow" but I doubt think my answer to his question will leave "everlasting physical and mental scars" the way his ancestor's actions did to blacks and this country.

More than likely, they were your ancestors too.

(07-19-2019, 03:08 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-19-2019, 01:23 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]In time of great strife may we hear and enact the words contained herein. I, for one, would have it no other way.

Ladies and Gentlemen I accept the flowers as a memento of reconciliation between the white and colored races of the southern states. I accept it more particularly as it comes from a colored lady, for if there is any one on God's earth who loves the ladies I believe it is myself. I came here with the jeers of some white people, who think that I am doing wrong. I believe I can exert some influence, and do much to assist the people in strengthening fraternal relations, and shall do all in my power to elevate every man to depress none.  I want to elevate you to take positions in law offices, in stores, on farms, and wherever you are capable of going. I have not said anything about politics today. I don't propose to say anything about politics. You have a right to elect whom you please; vote for the man you think best, and I think, when that is done, you and I are freemen. Do as you consider right and honest in electing men for office. I did not come here to make you a long speech, although invited to do so by you. I am not much of a speaker, and my business prevented me from preparing myself. I came to meet you as friends, and welcome you to the white people. I want you to come nearer to us. When I can serve you I will do so. We have but one flag, one country; let us stand together. We may differ in color, but not in sentiment. Many things have been said about me which are wrong, and which white and black persons here, who stood by me through the war, can contradict. Go to work, be industrious, live honestly and act truly, and when you are oppressed I'll come to your relief. I thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for this opportunity you have afforded me to be with you, and to assure you that I am with you in heart and in hand. - N.B. Forrest, Speech to the Pole-Bearers Association. July 5, 1875

I appreciate the intent behind the sharing of this expression.

However, the person you chose to quote here is perhaps the WORST person you could have possibly chosen to convey these thoughts, and serves to undermine the very sentiments you wish to convey.

He owned slaves, fought for the Confederacy, massacred blacks at Fort Pillow, and founded the Ku Klux Klan, which has worked to make the lives of blacks and other minorities in this country absolute hell for more than a century.  Even in making this "conciliatory" speech, he managed to make the southern man the victim.

Assuming the sentiments expressed here are the legitimate utterings of a penitent man, these words ring hollow in the face of the harm he has done-either prior to his conversion or after.  It speaks volumes that the defiant segregationists here renamed the school after Nathan B. Forrest in an act of defiance of the Supreme Court's Brown v. Board of Education case

May Nathan B. Forrest rot in hell.

Let he who is without...  Oh never mind.

Bullseye....
The 1st Legal slave owner in the US was a black man by the name of Anthony Johnson, He was a tobacco farmer in Maryland
North Carolina's Largest slave owner in 1860 was a black man named William Ellison
In 1830 there were 3,775 FREE black people that owned 12,740 Slaves
So quit blaming the White Man for you problems

(07-20-2019, 12:19 AM)The Drifter Wrote: [ -> ]Bullseye....
The 1st Legal slave owner in the US was a black man by the name of Anthony Johnson, He was a tobacco farmer in Maryland
North Carolina's Largest slave owner in 1860 was a black man named William Ellison
In 1830 there were 3,775 FREE black people that owned 12,740 Slaves
So quit blaming the White Man for you problems

1.  When did I mention any problems of mine?

2.  When did I  blame the white man for those problems?

3.  I  do not conflate the Confederacy with the entirety of the white existence.   I expressly stated plenty of whites fought and died for the rights of blacks.  If you believe criticism of the Confederacy equates to blanket condemnation of whites overall, you have a far worse view of white history than I do, to say nothing of problems with reading comprehension. 

4.  I expressly did not absolve Africans for their roles in slavery.

Anything else?

Man, this train derailed a long time ago! How is this thread even open still?

(07-19-2019, 03:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-19-2019, 03:33 PM)TrivialPursuit Wrote: [ -> ]6 of my ancestors fought for the confederacy.

So?

The KKK was originally founded to protect whites from carpet baggers and angry northern soldiers. Yep, that's right. To protect southern whites from northern whites. Weird right?

Then they, too, betrayed this country and fought to oppress blacks.  They too were on the wrong side of history.

They too should rot if they were not repentant and caused a comparable level of harm.

As for the KKK...if their beef was with "carpetbaggers and angry northern soldiers," where did the whole terrorizing of blacks come in?

Historically the first Klan was a vigilante group who threatened and killed blacks and white Republicans for political purposes. They mostly failed and were put down by the Feds in the early 1870s having lasted only about 3 years. The second Klan came about in 1915 and is the one we are more familiar with, because the white robes, pointy hoods, burning crosses, street parades and such were tactics they took from A Birth of a Nation. The first Klan was very disorganized and though they wore masks, they didn't do daylight theatrics. The second Klan were intentionally white Protestant, opposing Jews, Catholics, and European immigrants as well as Blacks, and they were also hard core morality police violently enforcing Prohibition and laws against Vice. They faded out in the early 40s. Today's Klan is the remnant of the Civil Rights Era Klan, but what's left of it is maybe 8 to 10 thousand morons spread coast to coast.

"In 1868, the Klan in South Carolina issued a push-card about the size of a baseball card. 155 It pictured 63 "Radicals"; they were all Republicans. (The Democrats called Repub­licans "radicals" because the Republican Party was bi-racial and allowed blacks to vote and to participate in the political process, 116 thus making them "radical" in the eyes of Democrats.) Of the 63 "Radicals" — or Republicans — in the South Carolina legislature, 50 were black and 13 white."

(07-20-2019, 10:22 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]"In 1868, the Klan in South Carolina issued a push-card about the size of a baseball card. 155 It pictured 63 "Radicals"; they were all Republicans. (The Democrats called Repub­licans "radicals" because the Republican Party was bi-racial and allowed blacks to vote and to participate in the political process, 116 thus making them "radical" in the eyes of Democrats.) Of the 63 "Radicals" — or Republicans — in the South Carolina legislature, 50 were black and 13 white."

Okay, I'm lost (again).  What point are you making here?  Or is it just interesting trivia?  (Nothing wrong with interesting trivia.)

(07-20-2019, 10:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-20-2019, 10:22 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]"In 1868, the Klan in South Carolina issued a push-card about the size of a baseball card. 155 It pictured 63 "Radicals"; they were all Republicans. (The Democrats called Repub­licans "radicals" because the Republican Party was bi-racial and allowed blacks to vote and to participate in the political process, 116 thus making them "radical" in the eyes of Democrats.) Of the 63 "Radicals" — or Republicans — in the South Carolina legislature, 50 were black and 13 white."

Okay, I'm lost (again).  What point are you making here?  Or is it just interesting trivia?  (Nothing wrong with interesting trivia.)

Yes, this thread has flipped more than a freshly caught fish! I figured I'd redirect back to introducing politics. One may refer to it as "interesting trivia," and some may wish to just ignore/erase, but those interested in digging further call it history. Frankly, both sides of the aisle have had their faults, but the Dems have been and are the party of racism. The more things change, the more they stay the same!

(07-20-2019, 09:37 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-19-2019, 03:37 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]Then they, too, betrayed this country and fought to oppress blacks.  They too were on the wrong side of history.

They too should rot if they were not repentant and caused a comparable level of harm.

As for the KKK...if their beef was with "carpetbaggers and angry northern soldiers," where did the whole terrorizing of blacks come in?

Historically the first Klan was a vigilante group who threatened and killed blacks and white Republicans for political purposes. They mostly failed and were put down by the Feds in the early 1870s having lasted only about 3 years. The second Klan came about in 1915 and is the one we are more familiar with, because the white robes, pointy hoods, burning crosses, street parades and such were tactics they took from A Birth of a Nation. The first Klan was very disorganized and though they wore masks, they didn't do daylight theatrics. The second Klan were intentionally white Protestant, opposing Jews, Catholics, and European immigrants as well as Blacks, and they were also hard core morality police violently enforcing Prohibition and laws against Vice. They faded out in the early 40s. Today's Klan is the remnant of the Civil Rights Era Klan, but what's left of it is maybe 8 to 10 thousand morons spread coast to coast.

My closing question was semi rhetorical. 

I have heard the benign purpose Klan claptrap before.  Don't  buy it then, don't buy it now, for myriad reasons.   Not saying the information you provided falls into that category, but it would not be a surprise if it appears in this thread.

But even taking it at face value, bottom line is they terrorized people due to race and religion.   

I refuse to honor them in any way, including its founder Nathan B. Forrest.

(07-20-2019, 10:50 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-20-2019, 10:33 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Okay, I'm lost (again).  What point are you making here?  Or is it just interesting trivia?  (Nothing wrong with interesting trivia.)

Yes, this thread has flipped more than a freshly caught fish! I figured I'd redirect back to introducing politics. One may refer to it as "interesting trivia," and some may wish to just ignore/erase, but those interested in digging further call it history. Frankly, both sides of the aisle have had their faults, but the Dems have been and are the party of racism. The more things change, the more they stay the same!

As to your penultimate statement, I  agree wholeheartedly with the first part...disagree wholeheartedly with the second.
Thing is, were racial politics removed from the equation altogether, there are some conservative views that may appeal to blacks to the point far more would be inclined to join your ranks.

(07-20-2019, 11:08 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-20-2019, 10:50 AM)B2hibry Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, this thread has flipped more than a freshly caught fish! I figured I'd redirect back to introducing politics. One may refer to it as "interesting trivia," and some may wish to just ignore/erase, but those interested in digging further call it history. Frankly, both sides of the aisle have had their faults, but the Dems have been and are the party of racism. The more things change, the more they stay the same!

As to your penultimate statement, I  agree wholeheartedly with the first part...disagree wholeheartedly with the second.
Thing is, were racial politics removed from the equation altogether, there are some conservative views that may appeal to blacks to the point far more would be inclined to join your ranks.

That's rejoin

(07-20-2019, 02:47 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-20-2019, 11:08 AM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]As to your penultimate statement, I  agree wholeheartedly with the first part...disagree wholeheartedly with the second.
Thing is, were racial politics removed from the equation altogether, there are some conservative views that may appeal to blacks to the point far more would be inclined to join your ranks.

That's rejoin

That's fair.

Just from reading the Political section, I’ve concluded there are 7 Billion racists on earth. Can we at least have that in common and live peacefully? I for one, like another poster, hate everyone equally. I truly do. I’m an [BLEEP]. Which makes me wonder how many times I’ve “offended someone of color” when it’s just that I hate everyone. As an [BLEEP], I don’t care too much. But I also don’t want my actions bringing down others. So at least I’m considerate to a degree, I suppose. Which brings up another thought. How many times have blacks, whites, Indians, etc felt “racism” when in fact the other person is just a flat out dick? I’d get into further in another post. I don’t want to stir the pot anymore than it already been stirred for one, also I don’t want to write
a book.