(07-18-2019, 11:50 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (07-18-2019, 11:38 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ]But you are defending a congresswomans right to downplay 9/11!!!!!
Also, you continue to not use the rest of the quote from POTUS. You are literally echoing the MSM.
It's her right to downplay 9/11 just as it's Trump's right to say that the white males marching with tiki torches and chanting anti-Semitic slogans were very fine people. You can be stupid and still be Constitutionally protected. You cannot incite violence and remain within the coverage of the First Amendment. The "workplace harassment" garbage is just that, garbage. But when a President tells four women belonging to various minorities (three of whom were born here and the fourth was naturalized) to go back where they came from, it's a threat. "Love it or leave it" from the Drifter is just a parrot repeating his favorite buzzwords, but when the President says it and means it, it's a threat.
The sheer number of people in this thread dismissing, downplaying, even pushing the boundaries of defending racism, saying that minorities bring it on themselves, placing false equivalency between white men being arrested while not acknowledging that it happens much more frequently with black men, even saying that abortion is the reason the black community is so badly left behind, it all blows my mind that I'm reading this from some of you. I thought better of you, but I guess I'm starting to really see who here thinks for themselves and who here just repeats what Donald Trump or AOC tells them to say. This board is starting to feel a little too much like Twitter.
So, which narrative are we adopting now... racist, EEO, first amendment, or misogynistic? The waters seem to be getting more muddy with each post and cherry-picking of Trumps words. I also think trying to formulate a "picture" of someone via an internet forum is dangerous at best.
(07-17-2019, 10:01 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2019, 09:54 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone has encountered situations where their race was used negatively against them. The difference is that black communities too often attribute bad experiences to their race. I also didn't say it doesn't play "no role whatsoever". I don't have to stipulate that racism exists every time I say racism isn't an issue. If Roof is your proof, then how does Emanual Samson play into that example? Can I play the race card now?
Besides, I'm not sure that I'd use a psychopathic murderer as proof that society is racist.
I agree with Rollerjag's "willful ignorance" sentiment here, which, in my estimation, is overly generous. I won't even bother to elaborate or expound on the rest of this.
Maybe you should have the courage to say what you mean if you’re going to infer something worse.
(07-18-2019, 07:29 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2019, 09:54 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]Everyone has encountered situations where their race was used negatively against them. The difference is that black communities too often attribute bad experiences to their race. I also didn't say it doesn't play "no role whatsoever". I don't have to stipulate that racism exists every time I say racism isn't an issue. If Roof is your proof, then how does Emanual Samson play into that example? Can I play the race card now?
Besides, I'm not sure that I'd use a psychopathic murderer as proof that society is racist.
Willfully ignorant is accepting that "bad things happen" simply because they're black. Maybe you can clarify that last sentence; it seems like you're implying something else.
Can we get a specific example where your white race was used negatively against you? Maybe one where law enforcement sought you out specifically because of the way you look?
Just one? How about this very conversation where it’s been implied I’m racist because I don’t agree that racism is a real problem?
How about the double standard that I’m expected to prove my victimhood while Bullseye is given a pass?
I’m not going to go through each experience with you. I will say that I’ve had police called on me, by a black person, for sitting in my car (idling) for “too long”. I’m not a victim though so I don’t view everything as being racially motivated. I’ve also been told I’m in the “wrong neighborhood”. I’m not even going into all the [BLEEP] I hear at work.
It isn’t racist to consider racism a nonissue.
(07-18-2019, 10:50 AM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-18-2019, 10:44 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, let's all piss on the First Amendment by telling everyone who exercises the right to free speech that they should all just [BLEEP] right off to another country. That sounds almost Stalinist of you.
Yes, because elected congress members should be held to the same standards as Billy Bob Joe in Palatka.
I guess with your latest radical turn, you are fine with congresswomen describing 9/11 as "some people did something", because we wouldn't want to infringe on her 1st amendment rights.
lol ... today's example of political hypocrisy. With Obama (and Hillary, presumably) the government was the great evil. Now with Daddy Donald in office it's a terrible thing to use your first amendment rights to express an opinion that Daddy Donald doesn't like. Being an apologist means having no principles. You fit the bill perfectly.
(07-18-2019, 12:39 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ] (07-17-2019, 10:01 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with Rollerjag's "willful ignorance" sentiment here, which, in my estimation, is overly generous. I won't even bother to elaborate or expound on the rest of this.
Maybe you should have the courage to say what you mean if you’re going to infer something worse.
(07-18-2019, 07:29 AM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]Can we get a specific example where your white race was used negatively against you? Maybe one where law enforcement sought you out specifically because of the way you look?
Just one? How about this very conversation where it’s been implied I’m racist because I don’t agree that racism is a real problem?
How about the double standard that I’m expected to prove my victimhood while Bullseye is given a pass?
I’m not going to go through each experience with you. I will say that I’ve had police called on me, by a black person, for sitting in my car (idling) for “too long”. I’m not a victim though so I don’t view everything as being racially motivated. I’ve also been told I’m in the “wrong neighborhood”. I’m not even going into all the [BLEEP] I hear at work.
It isn’t racist to consider racism a nonissue.
That's how they get ya man. "Convince me you aren't a racist".
(07-18-2019, 01:04 PM)StroudCrowd1 Wrote: [ -> ] (07-18-2019, 12:39 PM)JagNGeorgia Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe you should have the courage to say what you mean if you’re going to infer something worse.
Just one? How about this very conversation where it’s been implied I’m racist because I don’t agree that racism is a real problem?
How about the double standard that I’m expected to prove my victimhood while Bullseye is given a pass?
I’m not going to go through each experience with you. I will say that I’ve had police called on me, by a black person, for sitting in my car (idling) for “too long”. I’m not a victim though so I don’t view everything as being racially motivated. I’ve also been told I’m in the “wrong neighborhood”. I’m not even going into all the [BLEEP] I hear at work.
It isn’t racist to consider racism a nonissue.
That's how they get ya man. "Convince me you aren't a racist".
So when did you stop beating your wife?
"it isn't racist to consider racism a non issue"
Lmaoooo
(07-18-2019, 05:34 AM)Jags Wrote: [ -> ] (07-18-2019, 01:27 AM)Jagfan44 Wrote: [ -> ]I know this isn't going to be very popular but it just needs to be said.
I travel a lot, I am currently writing this message 1,000 plus miles away in San Antonio, Texas. I was just in Austin and before that Dallas/Fort Worth. Why is it that every time I drive through a black neighborhood, a white neighborhood, and hispanic neighborhood, I see the same things?It's the same everywhere I go from Texas to Chicago. Black neighborhoods are by far the worse, at times they feel dangerous. Trash everywhere, bad roads, liquor store on every corner, people always J walking and in general people are just lingering, doing little to nothing. White neighborhoods are typically always nice, well kept, kids outside riding their bikes even wearing helmets, nice cars and usually people walking for what appears to be the benefits of exercise, not as a means of transportation. Hispanic neighborhoods are usually somewhat dirty, though not as bad as the black neighborhoods, these neighborhoods are usually right in between.
One thing that is painfully obvious is that diversity does not exist, any part of any town, people who look similar always live next to one another.
So I just can't help but wonder but is this all the result of racism? Do people in black neighborhoods not take care of their belongings due to some type of discrimination? Why does this trend exist everywhere that I go? I'm not implying anything here, I just would like a straight answer. I would like to add that I was very happy to see a part of Atlanta that was all black that was very nice, I'm not sure what area of the city that was and I certainly saw lots of other bad areas but it was encouraging to see a black neighborhood that was well taken care of.
Not getting too far into this, I’m sure others will be chiming in. But I’m willing to guess you’ve been through the low income areas of town. It pretty much is the same city to city. To be fair, trailer parks aren’t usually downtown. That would be the low income equivalent for whites. Those aren’t really a whole lot different than what you described.
True. Low income is low income regardless of who lives there. Different areas for different ethnicities make it look as different as it seems.
I've seen white low income neighborhoods look just the same as the black and brown low income neighborhoods. It's a generational thing. Most people are a product of their environment and live how they were raised because they don't know any different. My neighbors two houses down are what you would consider "white trash" just by looking at the state of their home and property. Their daughters will likely have a home/apartment that will look the same. Or they may go the opposite direction and have an OCD-style immaculate home and that's usually a personality thing.
Feels a little warm in here.
Let's keep the discussion civil. I realize that we are passionate about our points of view, but let's try to keep the discussion to the topic at hand and refrain from personal attacks.
Man, you guys need a hobby.
(07-18-2019, 11:29 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (07-18-2019, 11:12 AM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]That is nothing more than your opinion.
So you're saying that they have the right to say what they want but no one else has the right to tell them to get bent? Sounds like a big old double standard, either everyone is free to say what they want or only those supported by a majority or the law will be.
Joe Schmo saying "send these women back where they came from" is very different from the President saying that. When Joe Schmo says it, it's one man's opinion and protected (if idiotic) speech. When the President says it, it's a threat.
And abortion and murder being synonymous is entirely yours.
Except the President didn't say that. He never said "send them back" he suggested that they "go back" to their country of origin (or heritage), fix the problems there then come back and tell us how to do it. He didn't say it
because of their ethnicity, rather he said it because of what they stand for and believe. In a nutshell they don't seem to like our country.
It's the fringes of the far left along with the MSM that labeled it "racist" simply because they are all "women of color". Guess what? We are all people "of color" no matter what the skin tone is.
I am so tired of people (particularly those on the left) being so quick to use the "racist" card over anything. I personally believe that there is only one race, that being the human race. Biologically there is no difference between an African, an Arab, a Puerto Rican, a black woman or a white woman.
Go back and actually read and comprehend what the President tweeted then look at how many times the MSM used the word "racist" in a headline.
(07-18-2019, 02:39 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (07-18-2019, 11:29 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Joe Schmo saying "send these women back where they came from" is very different from the President saying that. When Joe Schmo says it, it's one man's opinion and protected (if idiotic) speech. When the President says it, it's a threat.
And abortion and murder being synonymous is entirely yours.
Except the President didn't say that. He never said "send them back" he suggested that they "go back" to their country of origin (or heritage), fix the problems there then come back and tell us how to do it. He didn't say it because of their ethnicity, rather he said it because of what they stand for and believe. In a nutshell they don't seem to like our country.
It's the fringes of the far left along with the MSM that labeled it "racist" simply because they are all "women of color". Guess what? We are all people "of color" no matter what the skin tone is.
I am so tired of people (particularly those on the left) being so quick to use the "racist" card over anything. I personally believe that there is only one race, that being the human race. Biologically there is no difference between an African, an Arab, a Puerto Rican, a black woman or a white woman.
Go back and actually read and comprehend what the President tweeted then look at how many times the MSM used the word "racist" in a headline.
That should wrap up the thread right there.
(07-18-2019, 02:17 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Man, you guys need a hobby.
I like watching chicks fish. Does that count?
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/G8hx3DSZEybNC/giphy.gif)
(07-18-2019, 02:14 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Let's keep the discussion civil. I realize that we are passionate about our points of view, but let's try to keep the discussion to the topic at hand and refrain from personal attacks.
Screw civility.
Incivility has flourished on this board for years in myriad contexts, even among the mods. I have been among those urging in vain for civility. It's interesting that civility becomes a priority now
When he ignores the history of this country when it comes to slavery and then Jim Crow (forget contemporary inequities-that is a lost cause no matter what) and states racism plays ZERO role in the lives of minorities, by definition, he aligns himself with the sentiments expressed by Stephens I listed above. He is the embodiment of willful ignorance.
There were some in this thread on both sides of the discussion besides me who gave nuanced responses (Rollerjag from the left and MalabarJag on the right) that attributes bad conditions in black communities to myriad factors-some self induced some not, including race. If you acknowledge it exists as a factor, then reasonable persons can reasonably disagree on to the extent. I sought the common ground. He pissed on my efforts and exhibited obdurate unreasonableness in denying the existence and negative experiences of over 22 million blacks in this country.
(07-18-2019, 02:45 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ] (07-18-2019, 02:17 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ]Man, you guys need a hobby.
I like watching chicks fish. Does that count?
I’ve just found a new hobby.
(07-18-2019, 02:39 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (07-18-2019, 11:29 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Joe Schmo saying "send these women back where they came from" is very different from the President saying that. When Joe Schmo says it, it's one man's opinion and protected (if idiotic) speech. When the President says it, it's a threat.
And abortion and murder being synonymous is entirely yours.
Except the President didn't say that. He never said "send them back" he suggested that they "go back" to their country of origin (or heritage), fix the problems there then come back and tell us how to do it. He didn't say it because of their ethnicity, rather he said it because of what they stand for and believe. In a nutshell they don't seem to like our country.
So if I understand you, Trump and the other conservatives jumping on proverbial grenades to defend Trump here, espousing favor towards identifying or sympathizing with individuals or entities that show hostility to this country and its values justifiably earns you an invite to leave the country, wholly independent of color, race, citizenship or national origin?
Where, then, are the urgings for those who fly the confederate flag, who support the preservation of confederate monuments, who wear or peddle Confederate insignias to leave the country?
The Confederacy were American citizens who renounced their American citizenship to form an entity their leaders openly admitted were founded upon principles antithetical to the U.S. Constitution, and took up arms against American troops. If successful, their actions would have led minimally to ELEVEN (11) fewer stars on the flag and a country substantially smaller and size and stature than the one we have now. As it stands, Confederate actions cost over 600,000 Americans their lives and divides this country to this day. In the decades al Qaeda has been in existence, they haven't come close to achieving those results against this country.
Yet Trump does not tell them to leave the country (not secede...just leave). Instead, he welcomes them eagerly among his base, and many of you clamoring for the squad to depart based on anti American sentiment fly the flags and revere the people of the Confederacy.
Why?
(07-18-2019, 03:09 PM)homebiscuit Wrote: [ -> ] (07-18-2019, 02:45 PM)Caldrac Wrote: [ -> ]I like watching chicks fish. Does that count?
I’ve just found a new hobby.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/NXYEiVaoumDWE/giphy.gif)
https://youtu.be/lLgIIjnpZyU
I saw this take on the great racial divide a few years ago. I really hope some of you on here take the time to watch it.
Hopefully we can unite a bit more on here.
Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
(07-18-2019, 02:39 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ] (07-18-2019, 11:29 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]Joe Schmo saying "send these women back where they came from" is very different from the President saying that. When Joe Schmo says it, it's one man's opinion and protected (if idiotic) speech. When the President says it, it's a threat.
And abortion and murder being synonymous is entirely yours.
Except the President didn't say that. He never said "send them back" he suggested that they "go back" to their country of origin (or heritage), fix the problems there then come back and tell us how to do it. He didn't say it because of their ethnicity, rather he said it because of what they stand for and believe. In a nutshell they don't seem to like our country.
He didn't say it to any white people, though.
I have heard people say, in a very racist way, "They should all go back to Africa" or "We should send them all back to Africa." It's very common thing to say among racists. I grew up knowing quite a few of them. They usually tossed in the N-word when they said it. That's why his remark is considered racist. It has been a very common thing for racists to say.
Now, is Trump a racist? Or is he just a demagogue fanning the flames to fire up his base? Or is he just an idiot who doesn't understand what he's saying? Or is he all three of those? One thing for sure- that guy should not be President of the United States.
Last night, at a Trump rally, the crowd started chanting "Send her back! Send her back!" Trump stood up there looking real pleased with himself. Sort of reminded me of Mussolini. Now this morning, Trump is saying he didn't like that chant. So maybe, just maybe, his friends have finally gotten through to him that he has gone way over the line.
(07-18-2019, 03:11 PM)Bullseye Wrote: [ -> ] (07-18-2019, 02:39 PM)jagibelieve Wrote: [ -> ]Except the President didn't say that. He never said "send them back" he suggested that they "go back" to their country of origin (or heritage), fix the problems there then come back and tell us how to do it. He didn't say it because of their ethnicity, rather he said it because of what they stand for and believe. In a nutshell they don't seem to like our country.
So if I understand you, Trump and the other conservatives jumping on proverbial grenades to defend Trump here, espousing favor towards identifying or sympathizing with individuals or entities that show hostility to this country and its values justifiably earns you an invite to leave the country, wholly independent of color, race, citizenship or national origin?
Where, then, are the urgings for those who fly the confederate flag, who support the preservation of confederate monuments, who wear or peddle Confederate insignias to leave the country?
The Confederacy were American citizens who renounced their American citizenship to form an entity their leaders openly admitted were founded upon principles antithetical to the U.S. Constitution, and took up arms against American troops. If successful, their actions would have led minimally to ELEVEN (11) fewer stars on the flag and a country substantially smaller and size and stature than the one we have now. As it stands, Confederate actions cost over 600,000 Americans their lives and divides this country to this day. In the decades al Qaeda has been in existence, they haven't come close to achieving those results against this country.
Yet Trump does not tell them to leave the country (not secede...just leave). Instead, he welcomes them eagerly among his base, and many of you clamoring for the squad to depart based on anti American sentiment fly the flags and revere the people of the Confederacy.
Why?
All I'm going to say on the subject is this;
You will never be able to convince people who have no compassion towards those who are not like them of anything they don't understand and don't care to learn. Is it right? No, it's not.
Trump has done this country no favors with his incessant need to say every single thing that's on his mind and it is dividing this country. I cringe every time he opens his mouth or tweets. He has definitely brought out some behaviors of people in this board that, while not surprising, it's more in-your-face than in times past.