Jacksonville Jaguars Fan Forums

(10-15-2019, 05:39 AM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]Now this:  

Even John Bolton knew what Trump and Giuliani were doing was wrong.  

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/14/us/po...e=Homepage

"The effort to pressure Ukraine for political help provoked a heated confrontation inside the White House last summer that so alarmed John R. Bolton, then the national security adviser, that he told an aide to alert White House lawyers, House investigators were told on Monday.

"Mr. Bolton got into a tense exchange on July 10 with Gordon D. Sondland, the Trump donor turned ambassador to the European Union, who was working with Rudolph W. Giuliani, the president’s personal lawyer, to press Ukraine to investigate Democrats, according to three people who heard the testimony.

"The aide, Fiona Hill, testified that Mr. Bolton told her to notify the chief lawyer for the National Security Council about a rogue effort by Mr. Sondland, Mr. Giuliani and Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, according to the people familiar with the testimony.

“I am not part of whatever drug deal Sondland and Mulvaney are cooking up,” Mr. Bolton, a Yale-trained lawyer, told Ms. Hill to tell White House lawyers, according to two people at the deposition.

Good God Marty, your TDS is at a horrible state. John Bolton!?!?!?

On one of the forums I go to, I said John Bolton was probably the whistleblower.
If I have an offered here already, I'll do a signature bet with anyone here that Bolton is the whistleblower.

(10-15-2019, 11:49 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]On one of the forums I go to, I said John Bolton was probably the whistleblower.
If I have an offered here already, I'll do a signature bet with anyone here that Bolton is the whistleblower.

Eric Ciaramella.

(10-15-2019, 01:55 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2019, 11:49 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]On one of the forums I go to, I said John Bolton was probably the whistleblower.
If I have an offered here already, I'll do a signature bet with anyone here that Bolton is the whistleblower.

Eric Ciaramella.

Who cares who the whistleblower is?  Everything he said has been confirmed by numerous other sources.  At this point, he's irrelevant.

(10-15-2019, 02:35 PM)The Real Marty Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-15-2019, 01:55 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]Eric Ciaramella.

Who cares who the whistleblower is?  Everything he said has been confirmed by numerous other sources.  At this point, he's irrelevant.

If "numerous other sources" are as compromised as Eric Ciaramella is then it matters in spades. Trump released the transcript (they weren't smart enough to realize he could do that) and the content is exculpatory, so now the Dems and Media have to try and turn it into something it wasn't. As they say, Russia-gate Hoax repeats itself, the first time as farce and the second time...farce too.

This whole "impeachment inquiry" is just a farce... nothing more than a political ploy.  There is nothing "official" about it other than the necromancer (Nancy Pelosi) saying so in a press conference.  It's all by design.

She is trying to appease the far left of her party by doing this, but won't bring it to the floor for a vote to actually make it "official".  The reason why is because it would give equal footing for both sides rather than tilt it to one side (the democrats).  Meanwhile they can ban certain members from some of the meetings while they plot their next political move.  The MSM is surely helping them by trying to make this "news".  It is in fact a "kangaroo court" and it appears that they (the democrats) want to drag this out as long as possible into the campaign season.  Their problem right now is that the thinking public is not buying it and sees right through it.  However, that is not the target.  They are targeting those that only hear "impeachment" from wherever they get their "news".

Sondland's testimony today isn't helping things - more like throwing a full gas can into a dumpster fire. 

“I did not understand, until much later, that Mr. Giuliani’s agenda might have also included an effort to prompt the Ukrainians to investigate Vice President Biden or his son or to involve Ukrainians, directly or indirectly, in the President’s 2020 reelection campaign."

This isn't going to get better.

(10-15-2019, 11:49 AM)mikesez Wrote: [ -> ]On one of the forums I go to, I said John Bolton was probably the whistleblower.
If I have an offered here already, I'll do a signature bet with anyone here that Bolton is the whistleblower.

Sig bets are so lame....

(10-17-2019, 10:43 AM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ]Sondland's testimony today isn't helping things - more like throwing a full gas can into a dumpster fire. 

“I did not understand, until much later, that Mr. Giuliani’s agenda might have also included an effort to prompt the Ukrainians to investigate Vice President Biden or his son or to involve Ukrainians, directly or indirectly, in the President’s 2020 reelection campaign."

This isn't going to get better.

"might have also", boy...that is just brimming with evidence right there. So basically, "I didn't think it at the time, the Ukrainians didn't think it at the time, and no one else really thought it at the time either."

(10-17-2019, 01:09 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2019, 10:43 AM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ]Sondland's testimony today isn't helping things - more like throwing a full gas can into a dumpster fire. 

“I did not understand, until much later, that Mr. Giuliani’s agenda might have also included an effort to prompt the Ukrainians to investigate Vice President Biden or his son or to involve Ukrainians, directly or indirectly, in the President’s 2020 reelection campaign."

This isn't going to get better.

"might have also", boy...that is just brimming with evidence right there. So basically, "I didn't think it at the time, the Ukrainians didn't think it at the time, and no one else really thought it at the time either."

Sondland had the time turner?

(10-17-2019, 01:24 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2019, 01:09 PM)flsprtsgod Wrote: [ -> ]"might have also", boy...that is just brimming with evidence right there. So basically, "I didn't think it at the time, the Ukrainians didn't think it at the time, and no one else really thought it at the time either."

Sondland had the time turner?

I'm guessing Mulvaney.

I stand by my statement. This isn't going to get better.

jj, you are out of touch with reality. Sondland is not intelligent enough to have set the time turner to 2020, where he could have retrieved the newer version of the time turner. The time turner Sondland had was the earlier version, and he would have only had 5 minutes to arrange both the meeting with President Volodymyr Zelensky for purposes of dictating the specific terms of the quid pro quo,  AND simultaneously arrange the meeting with Dmytro Firtash, in order to retrieve Rudolph Guilani's $500,000.00. Therefore Dmytro Firtash had to be in the meeting between Sondland and Zelensky. That is the only way that both could be accomplished within 5 minutes. It was at that time, after speaking with the both of them together, that Sondland first realized "...that Mr. Giuliani’s agenda might have also included an effort to prompt the Ukrainians to investigate Vice President Biden or his son or to involve Ukrainians, directly or indirectly, in the President’s 2020 reelection campaign."

(10-17-2019, 02:27 PM)ferocious Wrote: [ -> ]jj, you are out of touch with reality. Sondland is not intelligent enough to have set the time turner to 2020, where he could have retrieved the newer version of the time turner. The time turner Sondland had was the earlier version, and he would have only had 5 minutes to arrange both the meeting with President Volodymyr Zelensky for purposes of dictating the specific terms of the quid pro quo,  AND simultaneously arrange the meeting with Dmytro Firtash, in order to retrieve Rudolph Guilani's $500,000.00. Therefore Dmytro Firtash had to be in the meeting between Sondland and Zelensky. That is the only way that both could be accomplished within 5 minutes. It was at that time, after speaking with the both of them together, that Sondland first realized "...that Mr. Giuliani’s agenda might have also included an effort to prompt the Ukrainians to investigate Vice President Biden or his son or to involve Ukrainians, directly or indirectly, in the President’s 2020 reelection campaign."

Might have?  I thought u said he had the time turner?

Just have Guiliani or Trump wire the $500,000 to flsprtsgod. I'm certain he would be happy to manufacture dirt on the Bidens.

Problem solved.

In my honest (moderate-focused) opinion, I think it's an 80% chance Trump is impeached and a 25% chance he's removed from office. McConnell is prepping the Senate for the House to have Trump impeached by Thanksgiving.

I say that to say this: the 75% chance that Trump avoids removal will be because Rudy is gonna take the fall, whether he likes it or not, and the GOP majority in the Senate. Culpability on the President is gone if he can simply claim that Rudy went rogue with regard to Ukraine. Sondland, Taylor, Hill, Trump, the four arrests - the writing is on the wall for Giuliani. That's going to happen - whether or not Giuliani is a liability for Trump's continuance in the Oval Office remains to be seen. But this isn't a good look for the administration going forward. Hasn't been since mid-September. I'd be in panic-mode, especially after getting rolled by Turkey and overwhelmingly opposed by the house on my actions with regard to Syria (including 100 GOP reps).

(10-17-2019, 02:55 PM)ferocious Wrote: [ -> ]Just have Guiliani or Trump wire the $500,000 to flsprtsgod. I'm certain he would be happy to manufacture dirt on the Bidens.

Problem solved.

There's no need to manufacture, just the need to expose.

(10-17-2019, 03:02 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ]In my honest (moderate-focused) opinion, I think it's an 80% chance Trump is impeached and a 25% chance he's removed from office. McConnell is prepping the Senate for the House to have Trump impeached by Thanksgiving.

I say that to say this: the 75% chance that Trump avoids removal will be because Rudy is gonna take the fall, whether he likes it or not, and the GOP majority in the Senate. Culpability on the President is gone if he can simply claim that Rudy went rogue with regard to Ukraine. Sondland, Taylor, Hill, Trump, the four arrests - the writing is on the wall for Giuliani. That's going to happen - whether or not Giuliani is a liability for Trump's continuance in the Oval Office remains to be seen. But this isn't a good look for the administration going forward. Hasn't been since mid-September. I'd be in panic-mode, especially after getting rolled by Turkey and overwhelmingly opposed by the house on my actions with regard to Syria (including 100 GOP reps).

The fall for what?

(10-17-2019, 04:28 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2019, 03:02 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ]In my honest (moderate-focused) opinion, I think it's an 80% chance Trump is impeached and a 25% chance he's removed from office. McConnell is prepping the Senate for the House to have Trump impeached by Thanksgiving.

I say that to say this: the 75% chance that Trump avoids removal will be because Rudy is gonna take the fall, whether he likes it or not, and the GOP majority in the Senate. Culpability on the President is gone if he can simply claim that Rudy went rogue with regard to Ukraine. Sondland, Taylor, Hill, Trump, the four arrests - the writing is on the wall for Giuliani. That's going to happen - whether or not Giuliani is a liability for Trump's continuance in the Oval Office remains to be seen. But this isn't a good look for the administration going forward. Hasn't been since mid-September. I'd be in panic-mode, especially after getting rolled by Turkey and overwhelmingly opposed by the house on my actions with regard to Syria (including 100 GOP reps).

The fall for what?

Wait, wait...there's a Shawshank Redemption line in here somewhere.

(10-17-2019, 04:40 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2019, 04:28 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]The fall for what?

Wait, wait...there's a Shawshank Redemption line in here somewhere.

No, what are u saying he did?

(10-17-2019, 04:42 PM)jj82284 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-17-2019, 04:40 PM)Gabe Wrote: [ -> ]Wait, wait...there's a Shawshank Redemption line in here somewhere.

No, what are u saying he did?

I'm saying that the writing appears to be on the wall for Giuliani to take the fall for either (or both) of the following: 

Campaign finance fraud
Foreign election interference

I base that on what I've seen/heard from Sondland, Taylor, Trump, Mulvaney, SDNY arrests of 4 of his associates, Bolton, Hill, whistleblower(s), Perry, etc. Everyone's trying to CYA, it seems, and I'm deducing that Rudy will be the one holding the bag when the dust settles.

*Edit: forgot Perry - who's submitting his resignation, apparently.