Quote:You clearly haven't read my other posts on the matter.
I'd explain thoroughly if I thought it were worth the trouble.
Suffice it to say - Dave and Khan have done some good things. The coaching staff have not. That's the crux of the matter. Saying the "organization" unfairly leaves out some very good moves from the owner and GM.
Flame on....
fact of the matter is it doesn't matter what you think the owner and the GM have done. Success is measured in 1 thing, and 1 thing only in sports, and that is wins.
This team, owner, GM, coaches, have done NOTHING for a decade in the win department. That is the cold hard facts. Don't sound like Gus with moral victories. Wins, and wins only, is what you measure an organization's success by.
We are the worst organization over the past decade
Quote:Firing the head coach mid season does not change the development of the players or the team culture.
The rest of the coaching staff who are ingrained in the culture and are the ones who have the direct influence on development are still there.
You can't change the development or the culture until you have the chance to change the entire staff and that can't happen until the offseason.
All that firing a coach mid season does is temporarily placate the fan base.
Um, how about ruining players and making them worse? Isn't it important to remove anything that causes our players to get worse? Because that perfectly describes this coaching staff
Quote:Um, how about ruining players and making them worse? Isn't it important to remove anything that causes our players to get worse? Because that perfectly describes this coaching staff
So you believe firing the coach mid season will also clean house as it pertains to other coaches/coordinators/assistants? Firing does nothing positive for the remainder of the season. Nothing. Don't you think the players play for not only money, but pride? For most they have been life long athletes and thrive on competition. I mention this because firing the coach mid season forces blame on them. They will feel responsible for that firing. A lot of weight and distraction that certainly isn't going to make them magically play harder or better!
Quote:So you believe firing the coach mid season will also clean house as it pertains to other coaches/coordinators/assistants? Firing does nothing positive for the remainder of the season. Nothing. Don't you think the players play for not only money, but pride? For most they have been life long athletes and thrive on competition. I mention this because firing the coach mid season forces blame on them. They will feel responsible for that firing. A lot of weight and distraction that certainly isn't going to make them magically play harder or better!
you are honestly telling me that getting rid of the statistically proven WORST coach in NFL HISTORY does not do anything positive? Are you honestly telling me there is any possible negative side effect in removing the worst coach in history from this team?
How can you be such a homer to believe this
Quote:you are honestly telling me that getting rid of the statistically proven WORST coach in NFL HISTORY does not do anything positive? Are you honestly telling me there is any possible negative side effect in removing the worst coach in history from this team?
How can you be such a homer to believe this
Answer the question. Do you believe firing the head coach purges the entire staff as well?
No, I do not believe firing mid-season does anything positive for this team. It might give you a warm fuzzy, but who cares. I also just explained the negatives. You don't read so well, huh?
Quote:Answer the question. Do you believe firing the head coach purges the entire staff as well?
No, I do not believe firing mid-season does anything positive for this team. It might give you a warm fuzzy, but who cares. I also just explained the negatives. You don't read so well, huh?
you did not explain the negatives... the worst thing that can happen is this team go winless after firing him... guess what, we are winless now.
I do not think the entire staff is the issue, I think the issue is pretty clearly Gus Bradley and his junior high level coaching style
I am sorry that you think the worst coach in NFL history is holding this team together from further disaster. You are obviously the same type that degraded every fan who said that Gene Smith needed to go, blindly telling us how dumb and fake fans we were for not giving Gene more years to ruin the team
Every time I hear Boselli say that changing a coach mid-season doesn't do any good, I cringe. Sometimes that's the kind of change that's necessary to send a clear message, just like there are times when the team needs to cut a player in order to move forward. Boselli should be well aware of that first hand considering he had a front row seat for the Andre Rison cut that sparked the 1996 run.
I'm not expecting the team to make some magical transformation under an interim if they fire Gus, but it almost certainly couldn't get any worse than what we're seeing now. If it doesn't make a difference, then you've eliminated one candidate from your list of options.
Quote:Answer the question. Do you believe firing the head coach purges the entire staff as well?
No, I do not believe firing mid-season does anything positive for this team. It might give you a warm fuzzy, but who cares. I also just explained the negatives. You don't read so well, huh?
The team will absolutely name any interim from the current staff, and I would expect whoever that might be to maintain the current staff for the rest of the season. The front office isn't going to let him make sweeping staff changes mid-season. Basically, the interim has an opportunity to audition for the job.
Quote:you did not explain the negatives... the worst thing that can happen is this team go winless after firing him... guess what, we are winless now.
I do not think the entire staff is the issue, I think the issue is pretty clearly Gus Bradley and his junior high level coaching style
I am sorry that you think the worst coach in NFL history is holding this team together from further disaster. You are obviously the same type that degraded every fan who said that Gene Smith needed to go, blindly telling us how dumb and fake fans we were for not giving Gene more years to ruin the team
Well, your screen name fits. You have no idea who I am or what I think or believe, nor do I think it matters. The fact of the matter is that there is no gain to mid-season change. Sure an interim might gain a win or two, but the players, coaches, and scheme remain. I suppose you'll feel better at night with an immediate firing. Look, you are mistaken if you believe anyone on this board wants Gus to remain, but you will find some level headed individuals that do not see an advantage to mid-season firings. What changes for the better? Really?
Quote:Well, your screen name fits. You have no idea who I am or what I think or believe, nor do I think it matters. The fact of the matter is that there is no gain to mid-season change. Sure an interim might gain a win or two, but the players, coaches, and scheme remain. I suppose you'll feel better at night with an immediate firing. Look, you are mistaken if you believe anyone on this board wants Gus to remain, but you will find some level headed individuals that do not see an advantage to mid-season firings. What changes for the better? Really?
Might gain a win or two? God forbid this team actually win.
No disadvantages whatsoever to firing Gus mid season. None. Players feeling responsible? How do you know that? Did you ask them? Or how about maybe they know he's a bad coach and they're glad he's gone too?
You have no idea how good the interim coach can be but we all know how bad Gus is right now. He's awful.
Quote:The team will absolutely name any interim from the current staff, and I would expect whoever that might be to maintain the current staff for the rest of the season. The front office isn't going to let him make sweeping staff changes mid-season. Basically, the interim has an opportunity to audition for the job.
Given, but how did that interim (Mel Tucker) work out? What did the team gain? I imagine there are quite a few that kind of regret that decision in hindsight. So you're ready to roll with Marrone since he is the assistant HC and most likely choice?
I think too much is put into "sending a message". Don't the players feel bad enough? Don't you think they want to get away from the suck? Pretty sure they and everyone understands the nature of the business without "sending a message".
Quote:Might gain a win or two? God forbid this team actually win.
No disadvantages whatsoever to firing Gus mid season. None. Players feeling responsible? How do you know that? Did you ask them? Or how about maybe they know he's a bad coach and they're glad he's gone too?
You have no idea how good the interim coach can be but we all know how bad Gus is right now. He's awful.
It is the same team, scheme, and coaches regardless if Gus is here. What's to say they wouldn't have won those one or two games anyways?
Stop with semantics. Have you ever been a member of a "team" that depends on each and every individuals efforts? Military or organized sports? Then you would know that pride in what you do places a certain burden on your shoulders for failure and you best believe the individuals will feel responsible. That isn't positive moving forward. Unfortunately, that feeling is somewhat expected in the offseason.
Quote:It is the same team, scheme, and coaches regardless if Gus is here. What's to say they wouldn't have won those one or two games anyways?
Stop with semantics. Have you ever been a member of a "team" that depends on each and every individuals efforts? Military or organized sports? Then you would know that pride in what you do places a certain burden on your shoulders for failure and you best believe the individuals will feel responsible. That isn't positive moving forward. Unfortunately, that feeling is somewhat expected in the offseason.
These are grown men. They are playing at a level higher than any person on this board has ever dreamed of. The coach gets fired and guess what? They move on! They play for that pay check and the win. It's a business in the NFL and every single player knows it. They would know that Gus was fired because he wasn't getting the job done. Maybe the players will feel responsible and you know what, maybe that lights a fire under them. You have no idea what will happen with the interim coach and who cares. Does it matter if we are losing games under Gus or under the interim HC? No it doesn't. You're just afraid of the unknown.
It's quite clear Gus can not hack it in this league as a HC. Get over the "feelings" of the players. No one cares about that. It's a business and should be treated as such.
Quote:Given, but how did that interim (Mel Tucker) work out? What did the team gain? I imagine there are quite a few that kind of regret that decision in hindsight. So you're ready to roll with Marrone since he is the assistant HC and most likely choice?
I think too much is put into "sending a message". Don't the players feel bad enough? Don't you think they want to get away from the suck? Pretty sure they and everyone understands the nature of the business without "sending a message".
Most interims don't succeed. So, you've then eliminated them as a potential option. One down and the rest to go.
What did the team lose by firing Del Rio and promoting Tucker to interim? Anything? I doubt very seriously that anyone regretted the decision. Things weren't getting better.
I don't think firing a coach sends a message to the team other than that the owner/GM felt the coach was the impediment to the team succeeding. Cutting players however can provide motivation. We've seen that happen here.
Quote:These are grown men. They are playing at a level higher than any person on this board has ever dreamed of. The coach gets fired and guess what? They move on! They play for that pay check and the win. It's a business in the NFL and every single player knows it. They would know that Gus was fired because he wasn't getting the job done. Maybe the players will feel responsible and you know what, maybe that lights a fire under them. You have no idea what will happen with the interim coach and who cares. Does it matter if we are losing games under Gus or under the interim HC? No it doesn't. You're just afraid of the unknown.
It's quite clear Gus can not hack it in this league as a HC. Get over the "feelings" of the players. No one cares about that. It's a business and should be treated as such.
It's ignorant to believe there is a disconnect or no pride because of money. If it was strictly just about the money, you'd have a good majority quitting after that first contract. Do you honestly believe it is a business free from emotion? Get out of here with that. Anyways, that is a bit off base from the topic. So if Gus is fired and an interim is assigned, he loses out, but your fine because we know what Gus is, then what is the point? What if? What if? Look, I believe Gus is gone regardless of how the season plays out. I just don't see the point in tipping the boat over mid-season.
Quote:It's ignorant to believe there is a disconnect or no pride because of money. If it was strictly just about the money, you'd have a good majority quitting after that first contract. Do you honestly believe it is a business free from emotion? Get out of here with that. Anyways, that is a bit off base from the topic. So if Gus is fired and an interim is assigned, he loses out, but your fine because we know what Gus is, then what is the point? What if? What if? Look, I believe Gus is gone regardless of how the season plays out. I just don't see the point in tipping the boat over mid-season.
Why wait when you know the fate?
Say you're in a relationship with a woman. You know you it's not going to work out. Do you wait until the end of the year to do it or just do it when you know? You have no idea if the next relationship will be good or not but you know this one doesn't work for you.
I understand that there are emotions in this sport but I also know that the players understand it's a business.
Stop with the feelings. Who cares about them. Winning is all that matters and if Gus is fired, it's because he can't win with this team and it's the next man up.
Quote:Most interims don't succeed. So, you've then eliminated them as a potential option. One down and the rest to go.
What did the team lose by firing Del Rio and promoting Tucker to interim? Anything? I doubt very seriously that anyone regretted the decision. Things weren't getting better.
I don't think firing a coach sends a message to the team other than that the owner/GM felt the coach was the impediment to the team succeeding. Cutting players however can provide motivation. We've seen that happen here.
Yeah, I don't know what the front office envisioned with Marrone, but my guess he was not to be anything but an O-line coach and can't imagine any contingency long term plans had his name attached based on his track record. Just speculation of course. I would believe this team wants to start fresh and nobody on this staff needs to come with 20 feet of the HC position.
Not that I put a lot of stock into the message board geniuses, but just reading through this board and you'd believe firing Del Rio was up there with the firing of Tom!
I think the firing/cutting of players is a different animal altogether.
Quote:Every time I hear Boselli say that changing a coach mid-season doesn't do any good, I cringe. Sometimes that's the kind of change that's necessary to send a clear message, just like there are times when the team needs to cut a player in order to move forward. Boselli should be well aware of that first hand considering he had a front row seat for the Andre Rison cut that sparked the 1996 run.
I'm not expecting the team to make some magical transformation under an interim if they fire Gus, but it almost certainly couldn't get any worse than what we're seeing now. If it doesn't make a difference, then you've eliminated one candidate from your list of options.
I don't know what is going on, but you and me are all the sudden sounding like the same person and on the same page. Did you finally have enough of the losing and incompetence? I mean I'm glad we are on the same page here, every single Jaguar fan should be on the same page here. Being sick and tired of perpetual losing does not make you a bad fan.
This team needs to start finding out how to get wins, one way or another, enough with the sticking blindly by a loser just because he has years left on his contract.
It does NOT TAKE 4 YEARS to rebuild in today's NFL. Time and time again it is proven that the right coach can turn a team around almost instantly... not from a loser to a championship team, but from a loser to a .500 team pretty damn quickly if you are a good coach.
Quote:It's ignorant to believe there is a disconnect or no pride because of money. If it was strictly just about the money, you'd have a good majority quitting after that first contract. Do you honestly believe it is a business free from emotion? Get out of here with that. Anyways, that is a bit off base from the topic. So if Gus is fired and an interim is assigned, he loses out, but your fine because we know what Gus is, then what is the point? What if? What if? Look, I believe Gus is gone regardless of how the season plays out. I just don't see the point in tipping the boat over mid-season.
you sir then are insane... by definition... you want to continue on the same path, expecting different results... or maybe, expecting the same results and having no issue with it.
you are either fine with losing, or you are insane, or maybe both
any rational person can see getting rid of the NFL's worst head coach in it's history, be fact, not opinion, is the best step to take for this team, and the sooner, the better
Quote:Yeah, I don't know what the front office envisioned with Marrone, but my guess he was not to be anything but an O-line coach and can't imagine any contingency long term plans had his name attached based on his track record. Just speculation of course. I would believe this team wants to start fresh and nobody on this staff needs to come with 20 feet of the HC position.
Not that I put a lot of stock into the message board geniuses, but just reading through this board and you'd believe firing Del Rio was up there with the firing of Tom!
I think the firing/cutting of players is a different animal altogether.
Doug Marrone was hired by Tony Khan, not Caldwell or Bradley. He was brought in as an insurance policy. He was hired to be the contingency plan if Gus didn't turn the corner. I assure you, that's not speculation on my part. They wanted a guy on the staff who had head coaching experience for a reason. He landed in their laps.
I never got the sense that firing Del Rio was anything even remotely close to firing Tom. Coughlin's firing was the worst franchise level mistake we've never recovered from. Del Rio's firing was necessary. His replacement was the second biggest franchise level mistake this team has ever made.
Cutting players can be used to motivate a team. Firing a coach doesn't normally serve a similar purpose. It's the hiring of his replacement that can help catapult a franchise. This team has far better talent than the record would reflect.