(04-25-2020, 09:55 PM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ]B
My problem with it was I thought they needed to make moves with all their picks to move up. Thought they could get 5 starters/rotation guys, ended up with probably 4. I don’t have much of a problem like most here do with going more defense than offense early. Believe it or not, you still need defense to win. This year is all about evaluating Minshew. And the best way imo to evaluate him is to see how he plays in competitive games. We could go all offense in the first to help him that way, but when we’re down double digits every game because our defense can’t stop a thing, teams will play vanilla and he’ll stat pad like Bortles did and you don’t get a great evaluation of him that way.
Henderson - by far the second best corner in the draft. Yeah, OL is also a need we coulda gone OT, but our CB group is probably the worst position group in the NFL. Would have liked to trade down a few then grab him, but risky with Atlanta trying their hardest to trade up for him
Chiasson - lukewarm about him. Tools wise is great, but the production didn’t match. Not the biggest fan of those guys, especially in a rich draft like this. But the value is there. Would’ve preferred a trade back.
Shenault - great pick. Obviously durability is a concern, but is a guy who can make plays with the ball in his hands. We don’t have anyone like that. Hopefully our Debo Samuel.
Hamilton - thought this was a spot needed to trade up from, don’t hate the player, but a center fielder like Ashtyn Davis would have been better value.
Bartch - OL needs help and was a guy many thought would go Day 2, no complaints
Scott - eventual Hayden replacement in the nickel. Good pick.
Rest of the draft outside Johnson and Luton was meh. Would’ve liked another OL. Trading up for Dotson instead of Quarterman should’ve been the pick.
Agree!
I’m going with a B+ and here’s why..
We needed a sure fire starter at CB. A legit CB1. Henderson is young and will fill some big shoes. He’s fluid and can travel.
Allen is going to be a future All Pro and he needed a partner on the other end. Looks like we’re a 34 team now so we got a starter on that side.
We got our NT in round 3. Hamilton is probably going to carve out a long career just plugging up holes and collapsing pockets. With our division and Titans running the ball we have to match up with them better. A sexy 4.3 WR isn’t going to beat the Titans...we needed the big uglies and we got 1.
I like the nasty tackle from St Johns. He’s going to make a good swing lineman.
The LB position is needed is pretty much every draft. You need special testers that can run and hit. You need guys that can learn swing spots at LB. if we’re moving to a 34 then we need extra LB. 10 year clapped out vet or a young rookie looking to prove it...??? I’ll take the room.
This leaves my favorite pick in the draft.....Yep!!! Shenaaaaauuullltttt. Kid is gonna be a fantasy stud muffin!! I’m so excited for this kid. Straight Stud! He’s got 4.3 speed and he’s as thick as a TE and he can catch. But he will make CBs struggle with tackling him. Look for a lot of quick stuff with him early on and they will let him use his frame and speed to do his thing.
Josh Oliver is almost like having an extra pick bc he was so limited with the injury last year. He has a year under his belt, but don’t sleep on him. He was a top TE in the country for a reason.
Jon Gruden and Minshew and Westbrook and Chark are all going to work great together.
I’m also happy that we drafted a Safety. I guess I’m happy all by myself, guys we struggled bad last year. We didn’t need sexy picks. Those are luxury type picks when you draft a WR that runs a 4.1.
We needed a make over at every level. We got it out of the way. We can come back next year and see where we are.
(04-25-2020, 10:32 PM)nhiverson Wrote: [ -> ] (04-25-2020, 10:00 PM)Eye of the Storm Wrote: [ -> ]We ranked 26th in the league for ppg at 18.8 in 2019 and drafted 1 possible playmaker. We ranked 21st in the league in points allowed at 24.8 and spent nearly every resource this offseason on that side of the ball. The fact that we averaged less 20 points a game and averaged giving up less than 30 points a game tells me that the offense probably could have used more help than what they got.
Because of that, I give our offseason grade a D. I’m probably going to be wrong, but it looks to me like a lot of 30-14 loses coming up again this season.
We were giving up like close to 200 rushing yards a game though so yeah
28th in the league vs. the run at 139.3 per game. Exaggerate much? Meanwhile we scored a whopping 300 points last season which earned us the 26th scoring offense in the league. We racked up 5468 yards which was 20th best in the league. Oh, and in case you haven’t realized it yet: IT’S AN OFFENSE FIRST LEAGUE NOW. Houston had the 25th ranked run defense in the league, but somehow won the division. Might of had something to do with all of the firepower they had on offense, but I’m just spitballing here.
I do agree that we needed more help on the offensive side of the ball. I mean, our belief in our offensive line is delusional based on the evidence we saw last year.
That is why I don't think we are tanking. I think Dave and Marrone have to be feeling some heat at this point. They must really believe in Minshew and Jay Gruden to make up for the line's deficiencies.
C-
IMO this was the worst Caldwell draft since 2013, and I'm a Caldwell supporter. Admittedly we didn't luck out from other teams' mistakes like we did in 2016 and 2018.
I'm OK with the Henderson Pick and the Shenault pick, although both were consolation prizes after we just missed out on better players. They were arguably the BAP left and they fit needs. After the 2018 season both were expected to go higher than they did after their 2019 play. Maybe that's a Caldwell thing.
Chaisson was good value based on how teams evaluated him, but wasn't close to our biggest need even if Yan will eventually be traded because we have Allen. He's also an injury risk. Dave should have traded down there.
Hamilton fills a need but was picked a round too early.
I liked the Bartch pick.
Scott is useful but I think there were better CBs.
Quarterman is a high floor, low ceiling LB, and that's not something we need.
Thomas is a box safety and a bit of a reach. We needed a free safety.
I know most people here like Collin Johnson, and he was good value based on most lists. But he's strictly a possession receiver, we could have gotten a similar (better IMO) guy in round 7. At the pick I'd much rather had Hightower, who went three picks later and started a run on speed receivers.
Luton and Davis were reasonable shots in round 6. Claybrooks was a wasted pick in round 7. I believe Trey Adams was still available who was a boom or bust OT with a high ceiling and a low floor.
This staff does not know how to build an offense. This is just a rest stop for Jay Gruden until he gets another coaching gig or as an OC to a more high profile team, which would be a stepping stone to a HC job.
When the season starts and we start playing these teams that can score, they are gonna run circles around this young, inexperienced defense, they’re gonna get gassed by the half, and they’re gonna have that deer-in-the-headlights look about them. I would say around game 3 reality is gonna sink in again for us loyal Jag fans
(04-25-2020, 11:31 PM)jaglyn Wrote: [ -> ]This staff does not know how to build an offense. This is just a rest stop for Jay Gruden until he gets another coaching gig or as an OC to a more high profile team, which would be a stepping stone to a HC job.
When the season starts and we start playing these teams that can score, they are gonna run circles around this young, inexperienced defense, they’re gonna get gassed by the half, and they’re gonna have that deer-in-the-headlights look about them. I would say around game 3 reality is gonna sink in again for us loyal Jag fans
You shouldn't take that long.
I'll give it a B.
No sexy exciting picks but we addressed a lot of needs.
Hopefully a bunch of these guys pan out.
B-
I'd give it a B+ based on the top 4, who will all start. But I can't get over having 12 picks and, in my estimation, squandering several on camp bodies. Most disappointing was neglecting the offensive line. I would've liked to have seen a LT like LSU's Charles drafted late to push Cam. Or Wirfs at #9, but then we'd be complaining that #1 CB wasn't solved.
The first round was pure-need drafting. I get that. Dave and Doug want to keep their jobs. I would've preferred to surround Minshew with Wirfs and Jefferson, but I suppose that Shenault has just as much upside as Jefferson and the FO hasn't given up on Cam.
Henderson - I warmed up to him as a player. A #1 corner to match up against the other team's best WR is a must. Herndon is not that guy. That said, I'm going to be upset when Wirfs becomes the next Walter Jones based on his sheer athleticism.
Chiasson - He's a boom/bust pick. Has a slightly bigger frame than Yan. He was to me the second best pass rusher in a weak Edge draft. Yan's temper tantrums necessitated this. If Yan swallows his pride and takes his meager $17M to prove himself in another contract year, wow, what a scary trio of rushers to unleash. They can mask an inexperienced secondary.
Shenault - Love it, but his injuries are scary. I hope they ease him in slowly and don't make him do too much, lest he tear a pec or glute. He landed with the right team to clean up his route running. Keenan is the best.
Hamilton - I warmed up to him, too. He's going to be Dareus, Pot Roast, or something close. I can feel it.
Bartch - Would've preferred some of the other OL "names" available, but I never heard of him before today. We'll see.
Scott - Seems too high. I wanted Prince Wagablahblah as an O-line project at this spot. I don't like small corners and drafting slot-only corners. I think you find those guys undrafted or convert failed outside guys (like Hayden).
Quarterman - I like that he's described as an "alpha male." That's what you need at MLB. He played a bigtime role on the 'Canes defense. We needed a thumper among the linebacking corps. Good pick to complement the current linebacking crew.
Thomas - Box safety. We already have Harrison, don't need a backup box safety. Should've drafted another free safety to push Wilson, unless the plan is to think of the two starters as interchangeable. That's not really the design of a single-high defense, however. We still don't have our Earl Thomas.
Luton - I get it. He's an under the radar dink-and-dunk specialist, like Minshew. But unlike Minshew, he's a statue with a windup. Career backup at best. If he sticks around a few years, it's a solid 6th round pick. But I think he's going to be shellshocked in camp and never recover. That windup is Leftwich bush-league stuff.
Johnson - Least excited about him. I get that he can help in the redzone, but I'd prefer any late-round receivers to be boom/bust types who could develop into starters. Johnson seems like a one-trick pony.
Davis - Meh. He's a project. Will probably end up on the practice squad, get poached by another team, and be out of the league in three years.
Claybrooks - Someone to compete as return specialist. I hope he's better than Scott so Scott can be moved to the practice squad. It'd be nice to get double duty out of a backup slot corner. That sounds like a luxury.
(04-25-2020, 11:31 PM)jaglyn Wrote: [ -> ]This staff does not know how to build an offense. This is just a rest stop for Jay Gruden until he gets another coaching gig or as an OC to a more high profile team, which would be a stepping stone to a HC job.
When the season starts and we start playing these teams that can score, they are gonna run circles around this young, inexperienced defense, they’re gonna get gassed by the half, and they’re gonna have that deer-in-the-headlights look about them. I would say around game 3 reality is gonna sink in again for us loyal Jag fans
So you think if we take one of the OL left instead of Henderson, we can all of a sudden keep up with the big boys on offense? That’s the only missing ingredient? Two of the OL left played RT in college and the other is a major project. It isn’t exactly a lock they can make that transition right away and step in for Robinson, and does Robinson have any experience at guard to make that switch?
The TE and WR room are both better going into Week 1 than it was after Week 17 last year. The offense has been improved.
In my opinion, each draft, the Jags GM always seem scared to go for beefing up the offense and molding it to what it needs to be in order to be competitive against other teams.
They hire a new OC, and he’s looks at the roster and then he looks at the draft, and he’s probably asking himself how the hell he’s supposed to work with this. He’s not getting set up for success.
We got 2 receivers... Both will play this yr. You are good fans. Worry too much. 4net isn't leaving. It's money yr
I'd say "B" and maybe "B+". I think the front office smartened up and started considering the personalities and their effect on the culture of the team and picked guys who are team oriented and not "Me First" talents like Telvin, Jalen, Yan and Fournette. I think they wanted workhorse, stable guys at the first three spots and got them and we all will be surprised at how well they pan out.
After day 1, I was ready to give this draft an F, but things got a little better. I hated us not going the BAP route and instead, opting to draft for need. I believe Wirfs and Jefferson would've been the far better selections in round 1 with CB Jaylon Johnson being the best selection in round 2. With that said, I do believe Shenault Jr. can be a good weapon if used the right way and IF he stays healthy, which has been hard for him to do. I've had him on my fantasy college team the last two years and he was fantastic in 2018, but didn't do much at all this past season, because of injuries.
The 3rd round was much better. The Hamilton pick was probably my favorite of the draft. He's a big, run stuffing DT, who consistently collapsed the pocket and got after the QB as well. He ended the season with 6 sacks, which is very rare for a NT. Then, in round 4 we ended up with a steal, as far as I'm concerned. Ben Bartch is a small school OT who came to the Senior Bowl and had an outstanding week. From what I saw, he was the best pass protector in that game. He stonewalled some of the best edge rushers in college football. At best, he is our new LT and at worst, he provides real competition for one of the starting OG positions. I'm excited to see what this kid can do. My excitement came to a crashing halt with our next pick though. We selected a dwarf in the secondary. If we brought him in solely to be a return man, I'm all for it. He has speed to burn, but at 5'9" he is too short to defend bigger receivers in the NFL. There were much bigger and better options at CB. I liked Shaquille Quarterman, but it was way too early in the draft to be selecting linebacker depth. We still had needs to be met at starting Safety, possibly TE and more starting competition on the O-Line. Again, I liked the player, but hated the pick.
Rounds 5-7 continued to disappoint as we kept passing over solid options to help the O-Line. Again we will go into the season with so-so starters and zero depth along the O-Line and the front office will wonder why we can't score any points. It doesn't matter how good your are at receiver, if the O-Line can't pass protect or open holes in the run game. Overall I give this draft a grade of C- and that is being very, very generous.
2nd half of their draft (starting with their 3rd 4th round pick) was pretty abysmal. Seemed like they were reaching on guys who were destined to be UDFA’s.
Also felt like they didn’t take advantage of some trade opportunities along with not getting a lot of value (maybe aside from the Chaisson pick). I’d give it a C-.
Kiper gave us a B. Said we would have gotten an A if we drafted a RB.
C+ to B-. I think we had safer picks available at 9 and 20. You gotta hit on this first rounders, something Caldwell has only done once while he's been in charge of drafting. The Shenault pick fills a need but the injury history scares me. So kinda weak there too. I like the Hamilton and Bartch picks a lot. Hamilton seems like he's gonna be a decent one technique lineman, something this team obviously needs. Bartch seems like he could develop. He at least provides some depth. I'm fine with all the other picks except the TE, from what I read just seemed like a reach. Really nothing stand out in this draft for me as a homerun. The first three guys have high ceilings, but also pretty low floors and some injury concerns. In a draft this heavy with a team this bad, I just would've played it safer. I would've gone Kinlaw or Wirfs at 9, Jefferson at 20, Epenesa at 42. Can't wait for y'all to hate on me now. Much love, cya.
(04-26-2020, 02:02 AM)TheBmanCometh Wrote: [ -> ]C+ to B-. I think we had safer picks available at 9 and 20. You gotta hit on this first rounders, something Caldwell has only done once while he's been in charge of drafting. The Shenault pick fills a need but the injury history scares me. So kinda weak there too. I like the Hamilton and Bartch picks a lot. Hamilton seems like he's gonna be a decent one technique lineman, something this team obviously needs. Bartch seems like he could develop. He at least provides some depth. I'm fine with all the other picks except the TE, from what I read just seemed like a reach. Really nothing stand out in this draft for me as a homerun. The first three guys have high ceilings, but also pretty low floors and some injury concerns. In a draft this heavy with a team this bad, I just would've played it safer. I would've gone Kinlaw or Wirfs at 9, Jefferson at 20, Epenesa at 42. Can't wait for y'all to hate on me now. Much love, cya.
Who would you have went with at CB? That was by far our biggest need besides DT.