(04-26-2020, 11:06 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 10:44 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Regardless of what grade you give, everyone has to agree that Dave in no way drafted like a guy who felt like he was on the hot seat. He's going to be making at least his 9th draft next year and it will almost guarantee he extends his record breaking streak of top 10 selections too.
I think the entirety of this offseason points toward a two-year plan.
Whatever that scheme was that Caldwell and Marrone sold Khan on back at the turn of the calendar year, it was a two year scheme. They haven't done anything this offseason that paints a picture of a hot seat.
The restriction on how many games can be played internationally is lifted after the 2025 season. Caldwell is safe until January 1, 2026, at which time he's gone so the new-look London Jaguars can hire their new coach and GM.
I give it a A-
I've been looking at this off-season as DC tweaking the foundation of the team. These picks start to fill alot of holes with solid potential and we still have next year and another off-season to work on Offense and lock up the backend of the secondary and CB2.
Love: Vista, CJ, KC, Bartch, Big HAM osu.
I laughed when I saw the poster say DC will be picking top 10. Like do you think the rams are going to give us that top 3 to top 5 pick and we were competing for the playoffs after a "your type" draft? I'm all for competing and building a formidable offense but there was no way in hell we were making a run this year post draft. Give me a high teens and top 5 pick next year to sure up the rest of this D and Offense, and then if we fail I'll take some of these complaints serious.
Minshew can look like the Future and Franchise QB even if he is hindered if the Offense can't hold up for him consistently. IF he does then we complete the build around him. If not, then its TL and completing the build around him. Success regardless but do yall.
(04-26-2020, 11:04 AM)iHaunting Raven Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 10:46 AM)Upper Wrote: [ -> ]Wirfs, Jefferson, Winfield for me.
1.-Wills - who BTW is gonna play LT for the Browns
2.-At 20 Jefferson but I would have traded up for Jeudy, Lamb, Henderson or Kinlaw.
3.-Fulton or Diggs
The lack of trade up bothers me, too. I wouldn't be shocked if two or all three of the fourth round picks are gone in three years. Would have made sense to try to package some of them to trade up in round one from twenty or in the second to get up before the run on wide receiver took such a toll. It's strange because in past years Caldwell has done a good job of getting into position to get the right guys and didn't seem to regards late picks as so valuable they couldn't be used to reposition.
(04-26-2020, 11:57 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 11:06 AM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]I think the entirety of this offseason points toward a two-year plan.
Whatever that scheme was that Caldwell and Marrone sold Khan on back at the turn of the calendar year, it was a two year scheme. They haven't done anything this offseason that paints a picture of a hot seat.
The restriction on how many games can be played internationally is lifted after the 2025 season. Caldwell is safe until January 1, 2026, at which time he's gone so the new-look London Jaguars can hire their new coach and GM.
Just curious...
How has the pandemic affected the price of tinfoil?
You seem well-supplied.
Normally drafting 4 offensive players in one year would be seen as a near overhaul. We also signed a starting TE in FA.
On Defense we lost 4 pro bowlers and were about to trade a 5th. This draft feels meh because were replacing two superstars that 100% should have been re-signed & were going into the season with Uncle Ricco (as much as I love him) under center
Okay so I actually love our WR picks after looking at them a little more closely. I think Shenault will start opposite Chark and Johnson's game reminds me of A-Rob--he was catching terrible passes and jump balls everywhere.
Henderson will be good. I'm very iffy on Chaisson. The rest of The draft is a crapshoot.
Solid B.
(04-25-2020, 09:55 PM)TheSchmidt Wrote: [ -> ]B
My problem with it was I thought they needed to make moves with all their picks to move up. Thought they could get 5 starters/rotation guys, ended up with probably 4. I don’t have much of a problem like most here do with going more defense than offense early. Believe it or not, you still need defense to win. This year is all about evaluating Minshew. And the best way imo to evaluate him is to see how he plays in competitive games. We could go all offense in the first to help him that way, but when we’re down double digits every game because our defense can’t stop a thing, teams will play vanilla and he’ll stat pad like Bortles did and you don’t get a great evaluation of him that way.
You're not wrong. Some people might be saying they should have drafted only offense early, and you're right that wouldn't be a fair evaluation of Minshew either. I'm just saying one of the first three picks should have been an offensive lineman. Putting him out there with the same online he had last year is certainly not helping anyone evaluate anything.
(04-25-2020, 10:03 PM)BlueEyedJag Wrote: [ -> ]It's a solid B from me. I think the big thing that I do like from this draft is the potential and high ceiling they went for. It's a very boom or bust draft.
Henderson has the tools to be the #1 CB in the draft.
Chaisson has all the tools to be an elite pass rusher and I do think he holds up very well in the run game.
Laviska is going to be a fun one if he learns routes.
Hamilton is going to do his job as run stuffer...no frills
Bartch is going to be interesting...give him 2 years in a NFL weight room and see what he becomes. What that kid turned himself into in 4 years at a D3 school shows he has the self drive.
I see these 5 as the only ones who will make an impact in the next 2 years.
But I only see 1 safe choice in this draft in Hamilton...the other 4 could just as easily bust but I do like the idea of swinging for the fences.
EXCELLENT take. This was truly a "swing for the fences" draft taking two players who are the definition of "high risk, high reward." In two years, our fans are going to be saying one of the following:
" One of the team's best drafts ever! Caldwell took two of the highest risk/reward players in the draft and both turned into A+ picks. One is now a top 5 pass rusher in the league who can actually TACKLE (unlike the guy he replaced) and the other has become the Jaguars' 2nd most popular player (after Minshew) due to his amazing explosiveness when the ball is in his hands. He can turn any short completion into a touchdown and his versatility and skill-set forces every defense to know where he's at on every play. He is the offensive version of Bob Sanders in his style of play and talent, BUT without the injuries that many feared would limit his success in the NFL."
OR
"Worst draft in team history. Two of the top 3 picks lasted a total of 6 gamed combined before being placed on injured reserve during their rookie season. The 2nd season was no better and neither guy can be counted on to be part of this team's future. They join the long list of Jaguars "teases" - following the likes of Mike Walker, Derek Cox and Dante Fowler." The only positive of this draft is that we finally said "goodbye" to Dave Caldwell who lasted about 3 years too long as the team's General Manager - to be generous."
As far as the other selections go, the picks I liked the most were Henderson and Hamilton. To me, after Okudah, Brown and Simmons were gone, the Jaguars needed to take the best player on the board at their greatest position of need. The other guys considered (especially the tackles) were not slam dunks as we learned from a higher rated tackle taken with the 2nd pick in Caldwell's first draft. Very few criticized that pick at the time and we know how that turned out. Hamilton was a player on the rise who will perfectly fit into the 3-4 scheme the the defense will be utilizing much of the time. He will platoon with Woods to start and eventually become their number 1 nose tackle.
The other picks they made were disappointing to me. I like Bartch's potential, but he'll likely have to be moved to guard. The one question I'd ask Caldwell is why he didn't trade up for Josh Jones to start the 3rd round. If (or should I say "when") Cam Robinson goes down or just continues to underperform, who is capable of taking his place?" Colin Johnson will help their red zone offense and Scott should be a capable nickel who will eventually replace Hayden, but they should have drafted at least one other offensive lineman (Biadasz would have been worth the risk despite his injury).
Final grade: B
“Evaluate Minshew” lol
They’ve already moved on from him after this season with Lawerence, Fields or someone unknown like Burrow this last season.
(04-26-2020, 12:48 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]“Evaluate Minshew” lol
They’ve already moved on from him after this season with Lawerence, Fields or someone unknown like Burrow this last season.
Minshew won 6 games last year as a rookie and we will have a better defense this year and probably a better offense as well with the upgrades at TE and the addition of Shenault. We won't draft high enough for Lawrence or Fields
(04-26-2020, 01:02 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 12:48 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]“Evaluate Minshew” lol
They’ve already moved on from him after this season with Lawerence, Fields or someone unknown like Burrow this last season.
Minshew won 6 games last year as a rookie and we will have a better defense this year and probably a better offense as well with the upgrades at TE and the addition of Shenault. We won't draft high enough for Lawrence or Fields
A better defense? With possibly no Yan to go along with no Campbell, Bouye, Dareus, Ramsey....
And you’re relying on a rookie WR (who I do like for the future) and an often injured TE behind the exact same OLine that got Foles hurt and made Minshew run for his life?
Yea.... no.
(04-26-2020, 01:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 01:02 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Minshew won 6 games last year as a rookie and we will have a better defense this year and probably a better offense as well with the upgrades at TE and the addition of Shenault. We won't draft high enough for Lawrence or Fields
A better defense? With possibly no Yan to go along with no Campbell, Bouye, Dareus, Ramsey....
And you’re relying on a rookie WR (who I do like for the future) and an often injured TE behind the exact same OLine that got Foles hurt and made Minshew run for his life?
Yea.... no.
Well, the defense
should be better vs the run anyway. Pass D is totally up in the air right now and not looking like it will show any large margin of improvement unless the D-line gets consistent quick pressure and the young secondary can benefit. Possible, but nothing to bank on.
Very disappointed more wasn't done to give Minshew more time to throw on-script.
If the offense is better it will be because Gruden masks the o-line protection issues, helps Minshew take the next step, and finds a good committee RB system that keeps defenses guessing where the ball is going. Another big, fat "maybe."
(04-26-2020, 01:23 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 01:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]A better defense? With possibly no Yan to go along with no Campbell, Bouye, Dareus, Ramsey....
And you’re relying on a rookie WR (who I do like for the future) and an often injured TE behind the exact same OLine that got Foles hurt and made Minshew run for his life?
Yea.... no.
Well, the defense should be better vs the run anyway. Pass D is totally up in the air right now and not looking like it will show any large margin of improvement unless the D-line gets consistent quick pressure and the young secondary can benefit. Possible, but nothing to bank on.
Very disappointed more wasn't done to give Minshew time to throw on-script.
If the offense is better it will be because Gruden masks the o-line protection issues, helps Minshew take the next step, and finds a good committee RB system that keeps defenses guessing where the ball is going. Another big, fat "maybe."
So.... 4 wins?
This is one if not the weakest roster in the league.
(04-26-2020, 01:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 01:02 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]Minshew won 6 games last year as a rookie and we will have a better defense this year and probably a better offense as well with the upgrades at TE and the addition of Shenault. We won't draft high enough for Lawrence or Fields
A better defense? With possibly no Yan to go along with no Campbell, Bouye, Dareus, Ramsey....
And you’re relying on a rookie WR (who I do like for the future) and an often injured TE behind the exact same OLine that got Foles hurt and made Minshew run for his life?
Yea.... no.
yes a better defense, we won't be giving up 250 yards a game on the ground with a true run stopping NT and a true MLB, Jack moves to his natural position. Yan will be here for this year, he isn't dumb enough to sit out and lose another 18 mil is he? We have a true number 1 corner again and an upgrade at FS. Yes our D will better.
The offense is pretty much the same when we won 6 games and should of been 7 if LF could of another inch. Other then the addition of Shenault ( yes 2nd round rookie, which good rookie WRs are making an impact immediately every year now)and Eifert who is one of the better TEs in the league when healthy which he was all last year, Oshaughn will be healthy, and Oliver is healthy and entering his 2nd year. RG is my only real concern but Minshew dealt with it last year and played good so not a deal breaker
(04-26-2020, 11:57 AM)TJBender Wrote: [ -> ]The restriction on how many games can be played internationally is lifted after the 2025 season. Caldwell is safe until January 1, 2026, at which time he's gone so the new-look London Jaguars can hire their new coach and GM.
Writing's on the wall. Caldwell and Marrone are out after this year.
Now if you want a tinfoil hat, you can welcome the Jay Gruden era. Coming to Jacksonville immediately after the Bye Week.
(04-26-2020, 01:25 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 01:23 PM)NYC4jags Wrote: [ -> ]Well, the defense should be better vs the run anyway. Pass D is totally up in the air right now and not looking like it will show any large margin of improvement unless the D-line gets consistent quick pressure and the young secondary can benefit. Possible, but nothing to bank on.
Very disappointed more wasn't done to give Minshew time to throw on-script.
If the offense is better it will be because Gruden masks the o-line protection issues, helps Minshew take the next step, and finds a good committee RB system that keeps defenses guessing where the ball is going. Another big, fat "maybe."
So.... 4 wins?
This is one if not the weakest roster in the league.
4, 5, 6, 7?
I'm saying there's no way to know or guess with any confidence with all of these "might be upgrades" around the roster and a probable upgrade at OC.
I'd like to at least get some non-company-line opinions from camp before I prognosticate improvement anywhere but run defense and offensive play calling.
(04-26-2020, 01:26 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 01:14 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ]A better defense? With possibly no Yan to go along with no Campbell, Bouye, Dareus, Ramsey....
And you’re relying on a rookie WR (who I do like for the future) and an often injured TE behind the exact same OLine that got Foles hurt and made Minshew run for his life?
Yea.... no.
yes a better defense, we won't be giving up 250 yards a game on the ground with a true run stopping NT and a true MLB, Jack moves to his natural position. Yan will be here for this year, he isn't dumb enough to sit out and lose another 18 mil is he? We have a true number 1 corner again and an upgrade at FS. Yes our D will better.
The offense is pretty much the same when we won 6 games and should of been 7 if LF could of another inch. Other then the addition of Shenault ( yes 2nd round rookie, which good rookie WRs are making an impact immediately every year now)and Eifert who is one of the better TEs in the league when healthy which he was all last year, Oshaughn will be healthy, and Oliver is healthy and entering his 2nd year. RG is my only real concern but Minshew dealt with it last year and played good so not a deal breaker
These are all best case scenarios. You’re relying on a rookie corner to replace Bouye. No one can replace Campbell or Dareus this season with even close to the same production.
The offense was 26th in the league and now you’re relying on Eifert?! So offense stays the same.... defense MAYBE gets better after losing all-pros/pro bowl players at 3 positions.
No one knows what will happen but as of now, it doesn’t look very good at all.
4-5 wins looks to be in the immediate future.
Predicting the Jags wins in 2020:
@Ravens - Lose. Lamar Jackson yo.
@Bengals - Win. They're still the Bengals.
@Packers - Lose. Aaron Rodgers yo.
@Texans - Lose. Houston's still decent.
@Colts - Lose. Phillip Rivers always beats us.
@Chargers - Win. They usually have our number, but they've lost their starting QB.
@Vikings - Lose. Playoff team.
@ TItans - Lose. Derrick Henry yo. Unless this is in the early half of the season, in which case it might be a win.
Texans - Lose.
Colts - Win. We find a way.
Titans - Win. I think we split games with them either way.
Browns - Lose. Browns are getting better
Steelers - Win. We always have their number.
Bears - Lose. They're a year behind us in the being the Jaguars thing.
Lions - Win. The Lions are pretty bad.
Dolphins - Win. They're still a year off yet from being better.
I think we go 7-9. Missing out on one of the Top QB's and a playoff spot at the same time. On the upside, Caldwell will be gone. Marrone will be gone. Our schedule is pretty easy, though.
(04-26-2020, 01:34 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 01:26 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]yes a better defense, we won't be giving up 250 yards a game on the ground with a true run stopping NT and a true MLB, Jack moves to his natural position. Yan will be here for this year, he isn't dumb enough to sit out and lose another 18 mil is he? We have a true number 1 corner again and an upgrade at FS. Yes our D will better.
The offense is pretty much the same when we won 6 games and should of been 7 if LF could of another inch. Other then the addition of Shenault ( yes 2nd round rookie, which good rookie WRs are making an impact immediately every year now)and Eifert who is one of the better TEs in the league when healthy which he was all last year, Oshaughn will be healthy, and Oliver is healthy and entering his 2nd year. RG is my only real concern but Minshew dealt with it last year and played good so not a deal breaker
These are all best case scenarios. You’re relying on a rookie corner to replace Bouye. No one can replace Campbell or Dareus this season with even close to the same production.
The offense was 26th in the league and now you’re relying on Eifert?! So offense stays the same.... defense MAYBE gets better after losing all-pros/pro bowl players at 3 positions.
No one knows what will happen but as of now, it doesn’t look very good at all.
4-5 wins looks to be in the immediate future.
Our 2020 defense should definitely be an improvement over the defense we had for most of 2019.
Ramsey was gone for most of the season and Dareus was gone maybe more than half the season as I recall. So the team that went 6-10 didn't have those players for most of the season anyway.
In addition, from reports, Bouye wasn't the player in 2019 that he was in 2017.
We've improved the MLB position and the WLB position. We've added a run stuffing NT. Our first 2 draft picks were the consensus 2nd best CB in the draft and the consensus 2nd best pass rusher/OLB.
As for the offense, we had no literally no TE for much of 2019, but for 2020 we will have at least 2- Eifert and Oliver, and 3 if O'Shaugnessy gets well.
And what if Minshew takes that step forward for year 2?
And what about our new OC?
(04-26-2020, 01:34 PM)Cleatwood Wrote: [ -> ] (04-26-2020, 01:26 PM)flgatorsandjags Wrote: [ -> ]yes a better defense, we won't be giving up 250 yards a game on the ground with a true run stopping NT and a true MLB, Jack moves to his natural position. Yan will be here for this year, he isn't dumb enough to sit out and lose another 18 mil is he? We have a true number 1 corner again and an upgrade at FS. Yes our D will better.
The offense is pretty much the same when we won 6 games and should of been 7 if LF could of another inch. Other then the addition of Shenault ( yes 2nd round rookie, which good rookie WRs are making an impact immediately every year now)and Eifert who is one of the better TEs in the league when healthy which he was all last year, Oshaughn will be healthy, and Oliver is healthy and entering his 2nd year. RG is my only real concern but Minshew dealt with it last year and played good so not a deal breaker
These are all best case scenarios. You’re relying on a rookie corner to replace Bouye. No one can replace Campbell or Dareus this season with even close to the same production.
The offense was 26th in the league and now you’re relying on Eifert?! So offense stays the same.... defense MAYBE gets better after losing all-pros/pro bowl players at 3 positions.
No one knows what will happen but as of now, it doesn’t look very good at all.
4-5 wins looks to be in the immediate future.
Henderson replacing the Bouye last year? I'm pretty confident he can do that. I wanted to keep Bouye but I also didn't think we would get Okudah or Henderson. Hendon got better and better last year so as long as he don't decline I feel good about the corners. Dareus didn't play most of the year last year an Campbell is the only big loss but he wasn't the pass rusher he was last year as the few years before. Our run D was where our real weakness was and I feel we should be much better there . I don't think it can even really be argued that our LBs shouldn't be much better with a tacling machine in the middle and Jack at his best position. Chaisson is the wild card as well, hard to say what he will do but I think decent depth in passing downs at the very least